MovieChat Forums > The Rapture (1991) Discussion > Funny differences of perspective...(SPOI...

Funny differences of perspective...(SPOI LER ALERT!)


(SPOILER ALERT!)

My atheist sister-in-law recommended this movie to me. I'm fairly agnostic (and I hate religious zealotry), and I watched it w/ my girlfriend who was raised Catholic (and isn't practicing, but still has that ingrained guilt from 12-years of Catholic school, and gets a bit miffed when I poke fun at the religious right.)

Anyhow, we watched the movie, and I thought it was an effective movie, but it left w/ the impression that this was Christian propaganda with a HORRIBLE message (i.e. if you think God's telling you to kill your child, you better do what He says; and, it doesn't what horrible things you do in life, you still go to Heaven if you feed God's ego.) My girlfriend thought I got it all wrong, and that this was analogous to the Bible's story of of Abraham being told to kill his son (that was Abraham, right?)

So, I'm totally pi55ed about this movie, thinking that some Christian extremist (anyone remember Susan Smith?!?) might see this movie and feel like those voices in his head must be from God, and maybe he'd better kill his kids or risk suffering eternal damnation. My girlfriend, on the other hand, thinks I'm just being intolerant of religion.

I later told my sister-in-law what I thought of the movie, and how it seemed to be offensive and dangerous right-wing propaganda, and she started laughing. She told me that the point of the movie was to show how dangerous religious extremism is, and that the director's not even Christian. When she said that, I guess I had a revelation (pun intended) of my own, and the whole thing suddenly made sense.

Anyhow, it makes me want to see it again from a different perspective...definitely worth watching.

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I agree with your sister-in-law's view. After all, it is ultimately about a woman who chooses to reject an unkind/unjust God, no matter what the consequences for her.....

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The difficulty here is the Michael Tolkin didn't know enough about Christianty to understand how little he knew about Christianty. He cobbles together a few themes that a few disparate groups hold, but in the end portrays only a caricature of a Christian group. He comes about as close to portraying an actual Christian sect here as pro wrestling comes to protraying a sporting event. Tolkin was called on that shortcoming in the film at the time of its release. The most strident critic at the time was probably Michael Medved, who bitterly chastised Tolkin for dealing in stereotypes that would be wholly unacceptable if Toklin had been dealing with an ethnic group, nationality, etc. As I recall defended himself by saying that the religious theme was simply a cobbling together of ideas that he believed would film well and make a good story. The inspiration for the film was a story he read about in a newspaper and rather than attempt to become familiar with the beliefs of the particular group to which the homicidal mom belonged, he made up the religious ideas as he went along. I guess your sister-in-law is right in that it would utterly inaccurate to view this film as a piece of Christian propaganda because the fact is that it does not, and did not aspire to, present any coherent Christian theological viewpoint. (I know, for an atheist "coherent Christian theolgical viewpoint" is an oxymoron, but ultimately the religion presented in this film is Christian only if one applies a very wide-ranging defintion of the word "Christian.") A far more compelling (and intellectually honest) exercise would have been for Tolkin to invest the time and effort into learning more about the event on which the religious portion of the story is based and the group to which homicidal mom belonged.

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All I know is, I watched at least half of this movie today (David Duchovny...DROOL!!!), and my first "freak-out" moment was when the guy Randy fired went postal and killed him. I got really creeped out when the little girl was asking Sharon if she could just die so she could go to heaven. "C'mon, Mommy, let's just die." Eww, eww, eww. That part really, really disturbed me, and I turned it off. I later read a spoiler about the end - curiosity got the better of me - and boy, I'm glad I didn't finish the flick. Too much; too, too much. ::shudder::

I also didn't get a lot of the supposed Christian themes in the film. It was quite apparently that this was a rather convoluted story. Call me dense, but I didn't get the deal with the black kid in the prayer meetings. I guess he was supposed to be a prophet of some sort, but I wasn't buying it.

But - call me shallow - a shirtless David Duchovny is ALWAYS good! ;)

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David Duchovny always good? Even with that ridiculous mullet?

"Enough of that technical talk, Foo!"

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I tend to agree with wrcong's overall interpretation of the film, in the sense that the film's ambition is not to present a specific denominational point of view, but rather to show one character's development within a story. The religion is the background to Sharon's story. I didn't read Michael Medved's criticism, so I don't know what his particular objections were. But honestly, a movie that ends with believers being bodily assumed into heaven can't really be considered anti-Christian, can it?

Again, wrcong points out that the Christianity in the film is a broad portrayal. I say fine. If someone is sincerely looking for a canonical, biblical point of view, there are plenty of reverential Christian films that unambiguously stick to the revealed Word. This is not one of those films, and shouldn't be viewed as such. This is not to say that Tolkin couldn't have mined the theological angle more deeply.

But as one poster (Lee Holloway) said in the "Just started watching this..." thread, this is about the character's choices. <MAJOR SPOILER!> That's why I found the end compelling. The prospect that Sharon is facing eternity in literal and metaphorical darkness lingers long after the credits roll.

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I also saw the film as essentially being about character rather than dogma. As such, I could relate to the general structure of a God who gave us free will in a world more complicated than we can comprehend. We are imperfect and inadequate, but we must nevertheless make choices. These choices will have consequences. And so we sometimes end up facing an impossible dilemma, as did the Mimi Rogers character. She could carry her burden no further, and so she tried to force God's hand. I see some atheists dismiss the conflict with a shrug. They conclude, "This is what happens when you take God seriously." I dunno. Without God, we are governed by brute force from without and appetite from within. Without God, our upcoming eternity in oblivion mocks our short moment of light. That's why Sharon, coming from hedonism, had to seek God. Ah, but did she find God? That's what the movie is about, isn't it? She found something, and it was good, but not quite entirely right. We empathize with Sharon because we understand human frailty. She lost the path, but could we have done better? So...was she beyond redemption? What was her ultimate fate? Some may see this clearly, but for me, the most satisfying answer is to say I don't know. How would God judge Sharon? Only God knows.

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"The difficulty here is the Michael Tolkin didn't know enough about Christianty to understand how little he knew about Christianty... The most strident critic at the time was probably Michael Medved..."

I guess I'm the only one who finds it hilarious for Michael Medved to criticize the **Christian** theology of a film. (Not that I'm surprised he has the stones for it, gods know.)

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I actually just watched this movie at work last night, and I found it to be really unsettling, among many other things. Mimi Rogers definitely did a great job portraying a religious zealot. The movie was creeped out big time. It really depressed me, actually. Mimi Rogers is really hot, though.

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[deleted]

Hear hear, xfile. Your analogy to "Happiness" is a good one.

Just mw two cents: I've been sifting through posts regarding the various perspectives of this movie and its message, and I'm a little surprised to find that no one sees the possibility that Mimi Roger's character hallucinates the final moments of the film.

I never just safely accepted that, but I left the film considering it a possibility. And it didn't feel like a bad directoral cliche ("it was all a dream!!!"....) for a couple of reasons: 1) the movie ends ambiguously enough to not hammer the point home, 2) people fallen from heatstroke and dehydration in the middle of the desert will often hallucinate, not just random images but sometimes entire conversations and situations, and I can't even imagine how the trauma of shooting your daughter's brains out onto the sand would facilitate such a mental state... and 3) given such acts by Susan Smith and Andrea Yates, I'd venture to say you don't even need heatstroke and dehydration to convince yourself of some pretty insane things.

Which is why I love this film, because discussing its many possible endings opens up many tangents of discussion. Some might scoff at comparisons I'd make of Mimi Roger's character with Susan Smith and Andrea Yates, since the latter two clearly had mental illness, while the movie did not allude to that possibility in the main character.

But that's where the discussion begins, because beyond being able to measure a calcuable imbalance of physical enzymes, mental illness is largely left up to observation and diagnosis. At what point do we stop saying "She's strong in her beliefs" and we start saying "She's friggin' nuts"?

Psychosis is simply a state where the "components of rational thought and perception are severely impaired." [Wikipedia.org] At what point does fanaticism in a belief or cause skirt the very faint line of psychosis? If enough fanatical adherence to religious zealotry convinces you of a reality that doesn't jibe with the rest of the world's reality, how do you function in society? If your reality clearly shows you that God wants you to kill your child, or remove yourself from society and deprive yourself of elements necessary for survival... what is society's duty to recognize that as functional and sane?

America has always had a really irritating stone in its shoe in this very problem: it grants its citizens religious liberty to practice their beliefs in any way they choose, so long as their practices adhere to the letter of the law, and even then the law grants some latitude for religion. But what are we to make of a person who has not yet broken any law... but is of the frame of mind that he or she will kill children the moment god asks her to, and is just waiting for the command? In other words: at a moment's whim and without any hesitation, she will place her god's Law above the Law of the People? The "potential" for lawlesness and criminality, protected humbly by the umbrella of the First Amendment.

It's what makes it so interesting. Anyway, these are just a FEW questions that are conjured up, out of hundreds. I love films that can do that.

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peterzachos:

You wouldn't have to wonder about it over in the Middle East. If you didn't whack the child, or one of your multiple enslaved always publicly attended and covered wives didn't, the sharia leadership of the city would, in your view- after they raped her in the name of Mohammed and did Alaaaah's will by marking her with the shame of rape before murdering her, all within the LAW of course.

LOL - Enjoy the sick reality of it all, Alluh Ahkbar ! , while you ponder your seemingly untravelled musings:

"But what are we to make of a person who has not yet broken any law... but is of the frame of mind that he or she will kill children the moment god asks her to, and is just waiting for the command? In other words: at a moment's whim and without any hesitation, she will place her god's Law above the Law of the People? The "potential" for lawlesness and criminality, protected humbly by the umbrella of the First Amendment. "

What we make of it is medications, the psycho wards, the courtrooms, and prisons. That IS CERTAINLY CLEAR.

What THEY make of it "over there" is NATION LEADERSHIP.

lol

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It is a good idea for all of us to take off our blinders at regular intervals. This will prevent a Christian from mistaking a new encyclical from the Pope in Rome as being, say, pro-homosexual, or an agnostic liberal from mistaking a Major Hollywood Studio production as offensive and dangerous right-wing propaganda.

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