"Actually, Zephyr, you are missing the point. . . .This is why so many non-believers agree with Sharon's choice, because it is the noble choice."
Sorry that what follows is so long and sorry I haven’t responded in so long. I get caught up in some movie and just go from board to board. Anyway, I’m so glad to read your response because it is exactly what I’m talking about. Your beliefs about God or what many believe about God are correct--and that’s the problem I’m talking about. Sharon believes these things because it’s what she’s been taught--mostly through religion. In this case, traditional Christian beliefs about God. But why is it (and I haven’t seen this movie in a long time so I may get something wrong) why does that guy, standing next to her, when asked “Do you love God?” gets a great big smile on his face and says “Yes”? Why does she say “No”? It’s because she believes what you just laid out in your response. What if there is a God but it isn’t what we’ve been taught?
A question: You believe about God and heaven and hell, but what about other religions? Other religions have a different concept of an afterlife and some believe in reincarnation. Why, if God is so much one thing, did He create a world where different cultures have come up with different interpretations? Reincarnation sounds very much like a better idea than an extreme heaven or hell/all black or all white because it allows for growth and experience and is much more reasonable and rational, imo. Your description of God (and again it is a traditional belief that many people have) is one of a being that is insane and sadistic but you are right in what you describe. It’s what we’ve all been told all of our lives. The thing is, I’ve read books about near-death-experiences and people frequently describe an all-loving, all-accepting, totally non-judgmental being that doesn’t sound anything like religion describes. To me, religion is a man-made thing. It’s the best way people have been able to figure out how to interpret the existence of a God but it’s flawed because people are flawed. And then, all these religions, all totally sure that the are the only ones who are right, drop bombs on each other over it. It’s b---sh-t.
Since seeing this movie, I’ve seen another one that is a little known low-budget thing based on a true story about a man named Neale Donald Walsh called “Conversations With God”. This guy went through a rough period, he got injured, lost his job, ended up homeless and then when he finally gets another job (at a radio station) and a place to live, the radio station closes down. He then gets depressed. One day he writes a letter to “God” pretty much telling Him off for the status of his life. Surprisingly, he gets an answer: “Do you really want an answer to all these questions or are you just venting?” Now, he’s getting these responses that aren’t auditory hallucinations. It’s more of a minds-eye kind of thing. But the responses are highly intelligent, extremely knowledgeable responses that make one question where they are truly coming from because they don’t sound like anything many people have ever heard before--certainly not by conventional religion.
In the book, "Conversations With God" (which I started reading about a month ago) NDW comments to “God”: “How can I know this is communication from God? How do I know this is not my own imagination?"
To which “God” replies: “What would be the difference? Do you not see that I could work through your imagination as anything else?. . .“
What follows is three books with the format of NDW asking questions or making comments with responses from “God”. Now whether one believes this guy is truly talking to a God or not doesn’t really matter because at the very least it is his own interpretation of God and probably what many people who believe and really think but never say because it goes against religious beliefs and many people don’t value their own opinion over some religion that they perceive as above them. Personally, I think what is happening in these books is essentially the same thing as the way the Bible or any holy book has been written.
The book makes some interesting points such as:
God is always speaking to everyone. Everyone isn’t always hearing Him.
God is composed of both male and female. As right to call God “Her” as to call God “Him”
God made man with free will.
God does not punish people for wrong behavior or for exercising free will.
There is no such thing as sin.
Hell is not a real physical place in the universe. It is a construct of one’s psyche.
God does not put anyone in hell. If someone goes there, they chose to and God will allow them to make that choice.
When one does experience hell, it is temporary. There’s no never-ending torment.
Satan does not exist. It is a part of religious mythology. (This is interesting to me because I always wondered why, if Satan actually exists, do various religions have various representations of an ultimate evil being?)
God does not control anything. Whatever happens happens. In order for God to control things, He would have to infringe on a person’s free will.
God is composed of everything and everyone. God is the composite of everyone in existence, hence if God put people in hell, He/She would be punishing Him/Herself.
The universe is constructed for there to be consequences. Whatever one does within the parameters of “good and evil” follow through to a conclusion based on in-built consequences, not by direct intervention or punishment from God.
Here are some comments from “God”:
“You cannot know God until you’ve stopped telling yourself that you already know God. You cannot hear God until you stop thinking that you’ve already heard God.”
About good and evil, heaven and hell:
“God knew that for love to exist and to know itself as pure love, it’s exact opposite had to exist as well. So God voluntarily created the great polarity--the absolute opposite of love--everything that love is not--what is now called fear. In the moment fear existed, love could exist as a thing that could be experienced.”
“I do not show My goodness by creating only what you call perfection all around you. I do not demonstrate My love by not allowing you to demonstrate yours. As I have already explained, you cannot demonstrate love until you can demonstrate not loving.”
“There are those who say that I have given you free will, yet these same people claim that if you do not obey Me, I will send you to hell. What kind of free will is that? Does this not make a mockery of God--to say nothing of any sort of true relationship between us.?”
“The world is the way it is because it could not be any other way and still exist in the gross realm of physicality.”
“Even if I did hold the extraordinarily unGodly thought that you did not “deserve” heaven, why would I have a need to seek some kind of revenge or punishment for your failing? Wouldn’t it be a simple matter of Me to just dispose of you? What vengeful part of Me would require that I subject you to eternal suffering of a type and at a level beyond description? If you answer, the need for justice, would not a simple denial of communion with Me in heaven serve the ends of justice? Is the unending infliction of pain also required?”
“No one else will judge you ever, for why, and how, could God judge God’s own creation and call it bad? If I wanted you to be and do everything perfectly, I would have left you in the state of total perfection whence you came. The whole point of the process was for you to discover yourself, create your Self, as you truly are--and as you truly wish to be. Yet you could not be that unless you also had a choice to be something else.”
"Most of you therefore, spend the bulk of your adult life searching for the "right" way to worship, to obey, and to serve God. The irony of all this is that I do not want your worship, I do not need your obedience, and it is not necessary for you to serve Me. These behaviors are the behaviors historically demanded of their subjects by monarchs--usually ego-maniacal, insecure, tyrannical monarchs at that. They're not Godly demands in my sense--and it seems remarkable that the world hasn't by now concluded that the demands are counterfeit, having nothing to do with the needs or desires of Deity. Deity has no needs. All That Is is exactly that: all that is. It therfore wants, or lacks, nothing--by definition. If you choose to believe in a God who somehow needs something and has such hurt feelings if He doesn't get it that He punishes those from whom He expected to receive it--then you choose to believe in a God much smaller than I. You truly are Children Of A Lesser God.
Sorry again that this is so long and I hope you took the time to read it because I didn’t know how else to explain where I’m coming from but with regards to Sharon, sure she made a noble choice based on what she believes God to be but why does the other guy smile and say “Yes”? It has to be because the dogma he’s been taught about God, he doesn’t believe in. He has a different interpretation of God. What if she just stranded herself away from God and from everyone else alone just because what she believed about God was wrong? I watched a program last night called "I Survived: Beyond and Back" about various people who have died and come back. Every one of them described an entity of light and "unconditional love" that they didn't want to leave. I've read books about other Near Death Experiences. The accounts are all similar.
GG's-Sophia: ". . .my dear husband Sal, may he rest in peace until I get there. . ."
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cookiela2001
10 years ago
I'm thinking that God just doesn't control much and when a person attributes the suffering in the world to some God, of course you are going to hate him. I'm saying God isn't involved in causing the suffering and can't do anything to stop it, so what's to hate?
Basically...when one veers away from the Bible or some sacred text, the Believer's just wandering off and following voices in their head. I personally don't believe in sacred texts, but at least you could rationalize (since you weren't there) that they were inspired by actual events that happened...who knows?
But the whole "personalized" approach to defining god (or gods) is even shakier. When people say,
"I just believe God is this-and-that..." I think,
"WHY? It's your Thought d'Jour? Or, I guess God dropped by your house the other day for a chat??"
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