Who killed Cynthia's husband and why?
I never could figure out if it was Joyce or Cynthia.
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MovieChat Forums > Mortal Thoughts (1991) Discussion > Who killed Cynthia's husband and why?
Joyce killed him, believing that Cynthia had confided in him the truth behind Joyce's husband's death. She even foreshadowed it when she told Cynthia that "you killed my husband, maybe I'll kill yours" (paraphrased). This was an excellent plot twist. I only had trouble with her threat because although Cynthia probably mortally wounded Joyce's husband while defending herself from his attack it was Joyce who let him die rather than take him to a hospital.
shareJimmy was trying to rape Cynthia so Cynthia stapped him in self defence,he was dead when he fell out of the van.
shareDid you guys not watch the movie? It clearly shows that Cynthia killed Jimmy because he was trying to rape her in the van.
sharethey must have slept through it. i love this movie.
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nothing to say here
Again, we're not talking about Bruce Willis.
“I always tell the truth…even when I lie” - Scarface
They're not talking about Bruce Willis's character - they're talking about Demi Moore's husband. That is a big loose end in this movie. Jimmie's death was self defense, Cynthia's husband's death was straight out murder. They never make it clear who did it, and if both women were in on it.
“I always tell the truth…even when I lie” - Scarface
It's so obvious. They each killed each other's husband, independently. However, Cynthia (Demi Moore) killed James (Willis) in self-defense, in the van, and Joyce (Glenn Headley) killed Arthur because she felt he knew the "truth", that she killed her husband (but in fact, she didn't kill her husband, because Moore did. She was still afraid that Arthur might tell the police that she killed Willis; so, preemptively, she killed him.
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thats why i didnt really care for this movie, it was pretty good until the end. Demi Moore killed the other womans husband in self defense, but the other woman had no reason to kill demi moores husband. She wouldnt have been scared that he would tell the police, because she had nothing to do with it anyway, and as for revenge she tried to kill her husband before anyway, she wanted him dead.
shareWell, Joyce in fact should have been afraid if police found out that Cynthia killed Joyce's husband, even if in self-defense, because she was a definite accessory to murder, and none of them reported it to the police. Yes, she panicked, and of course, no one should kill anyone...but, her fears were growing ever more over time to the point of completely panicking and rubbing the one who "knew" the whole truth....Cynthia's husband.
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yup Joyce did it.Bicthhhh
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Joyce did it
- she was becoming paranoic,
believing someone would turn her to the police
by telling the whole truth
Cynthia let her, in a way,
as she left Arthur alone and told Cynthia
- who had previously told her she would kill him
Joyce had nothing to fear by the truth coming out, because the truth was that Joyce did not kill her husband-Cynthia did, in self-defense. Thus it would make no sense that Joyce would kill Cynthia's husband to prevent the truth from coming out, unless you make the case that Joyce was still trying to support Cynthia in the coverup, by getting rid of Arthur who was suspecting it was his own wife Cynthia who killed Joyce's husband. But I don't think her support of Cynthia would go that far.
At the end of the movie we learn that Cynthia has been feeding the detective a big lie. She lies and says Joyce murdered her husband (Bruce Willis), lies and says Joyce got more paranoid, etc. In actuality it was Cynthia who murdered Willis, and Cynthia who got more paranoid-so paranoid that she ultimately killed Arthur to protect herself.
What doesn't quite make sense is why she would cover this up to begin with-at some point when she got in too deep, why wouldn't she confess and hope that self-defense explanation would suffice? It doesn't make sense that this woman, with a supportive husband, father and family, would be so fearful nobody would believe her, that she ruins her life and concocts this huge, involved lie that is sure to backfire on her.
Still-a great movie, full of subtle moments that lend authenticity to the characters. Demi Moore, Bruce Willis and Glen Headly are amazing in it, and I don't know why this movie has such a low rating on this site.
I have to agree - Cynthia kiled both of the men. I always thought Joyce killed Arthur after seeing it in ht theatre when it was first released, but after viewing it again on DVD I gave changed my mind. Joyce was being a true-blue friend to Cynthia through & through & was supporting her completely, even though Cynthia was relating a story that implicated Joyce as the killer.
But the last scene of the film shows Cynthia having flashbacks of the night with Jimmy & she slashed him. She then walked back into the police station & sat down under camera presumably to "tell the truth" now. She had been threatened by Arthur & all the comments supposedly made by Joyce regarding Arthur were in Cynthia's testimony, so how can that be verified?
Cynthia killed both & Joyce tried to support her to keep her free. That is the way I now see it. And like all the other posts before, this is a really great movie & it's a shame it's so underrated.
Yeah, I also think that Cynthia killed both men.
Really great movie! I saw it at a theater in the '90s, then bought a VHS copy at Half-Price Books for 50 cents (!) and watched it again last night.
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cconnelly, Joyce killed Arthur. She went crazy, from anger at her husband, covering her best friend, and popping pills. It would have been explained that Cynthia killed Arthur, but because that part of her story was true-Joyce going crazy and killing Arthur-they never recapped it. Also remember, Cynthia wanted to take Jimmy to the hospital from the very beginning, and Joyce decided that she was going to leave him for dead instead. Joyce had just as much to do with the murder as Cynthia did, so Joyce also had reason to protect herself.
I hate ambiguous signatures that look like they could be part of the post.
Okay, here is my take on the movie.
I believe both Joyce and Cynthia killed James (Jim). Cynthia in self defense and Joyce let him die in the van. She was ready to take him to the hospital and she asked Cynthia if he tried to have sex with her. Cynthia dodged the question and Joyce is like, "that son of a BI*&^%..." and she turns the van around to let him die. They both got rid of the body and the murder weapon. This is now a murder.
It is my belief Joyce fabricated this whole story (cover up for Cynthia) because she was just as guilty if not more guilty of his murder. If they just went to the hospital and explained what happened, got him help, then everything would be fine. James dug a whole for himself by being as a$$ (verbally and physically abusive) to Joyce in front of her family, her clients at the hair salon, he has a history of drug abuse, heck he was high that night. The self defense theory would have been believable. But no, after Joyce found out about the attempted rape, all bets were off. She has tried to kill him before and this was her chance.
It is my strong opinion Joyce killed Aurthur. Aurthur was implying Joyce was guilty and the two women had a fight outside, threatening to her family, her kids, Cynthia yells, "it's over." Joyce says something, "we will see when it's over..." During that visit, Joyce came to get Jimmy's gun and lied her in-laws were after her. She told Cynthia in an earlier scene while Joyce was in jail, "somebody's talking..." It was Aurthur talking. On the night Aurthur was murdered, Cynthia went to stay at her parents' home to avoid Joyce. Joyce calls Cynthia there and they get into again, how Aurthur always had it out for her and she asked if Cynthia will be home later and Cynthia says no. Now Joyce has motive, means (weapon) and opportunity and Joyce was confirming no one would be home. Joyce kills Aurthur because he was a blabber mouth.
Of course, these are only my observations. :)
That is absolutely totally it. I love this movie and my bf and I always argue about it: who is more at fault? He always takes Joyce's side, I sort of take on Cynthia's, always essentially coming to the conclusion they are both to blame. It's hard because Cynthia physically hurt Jim, but in self-defense, and wanted to get him help. Joyce didn't physically harm Jimmy but made the decision to let him die. Joyce fabricates the story, lies to the police, and kills Arthur. But Cynthia also helped destroy evidence and kept mum and lied. It goes back and forth. I think the basic thing is they are both equally at fault but Joyce's actions were deliberate while Cynthia accidentally got caught up in a lie that went way too far.
I hate ambiguous signatures that look like they could be part of the post.
Joyce didn't let Jimmy die. He was beyond help. A person with a cut like that to the carotid artery would bleed to death in a matter of minutes.
No Louis, you're mistaken. It's not me.
He still should have been taken to the hospital. her reasoning was askew from the fact that he tried to rape Cynthia, so she wasn't hurrying to the hospital.
Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...share
Joyce didn't let Jimmy die. He was beyond help. A person with a cut like that to the carotid artery would bleed to death in a matter of minutes.
Which show's how dumb they both were! They could have been off the hook had they taken him to the hospital any ways knowing that his chances of surviving were slim. Could have pleaded self defense for Cynthia and he would have been gone. But then again, their stupidity made for a very good movie!
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Well, in defense of Cynthia, she didn't dhink they wah doin' the right thing here....she was not in control enough to get Joyce to get to the hospital. but she tried.
SPOILER:
plus as we find out in the end she was just in the beginnings of being Joyce's little bytch-for-life. there was no turning Joyce around at that time.
Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...share
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Headley killed Demi Moore's husband, I always thought that was obvious. But it's cool that it's so ambiguous, the points being brought up in here.
The Last Boy Scout 5/10
Venom 6/10
The Haunting in Conneticut 7/10
Beyond the Door 4/10
I think that it was Joyce, she lost control due to paranoia, loss, Cynthia's betrayal and the pills she was taking.
I think what the flashback to the real night shows, is why Cynthia either:
1. Honestly didn't suspect Joyce would kill Arthur (as she hadn't ever killed anyone, not being the one who murdered Jimmy and because her threat sounded like she was going to Arthur to "finish it" by telling him who really killed Jimmy)
or
2. Allowed Joyce to go there to kill Arthur (if he squealed, Cynthia would be one step closer to being discovered as the killer of Jimmy)
R.I.P. Kim Manners
It was Joyce. Why would Cynthia kill her husband?
shareUnquestionably, Joyce killed Arthur. She hated him, he hated her, and she was becoming more unhinged as time went on. " The man is a threat" " I'm not gonna start with Artie, I'm gonna finish with Artie". She said it many times and followed up on her threats, which Cynthia never thought she would. That's how Keitel knows Cynyhia really killed Jimmy because he knows that's why she never took Joyce's threats seriously- Joyce hadn't killed one before. Cynthia wasn't bad in any way- she acted in self- defense & Joyce went off the rails.
shareCynthia killed both men. Remember, the bulk of the movie was Cynthia giving her statement to police detectives. But, as the ending flashbacks show, Cynthia was LYING about who killed James and why. Therefore, the credibility of anything and everything Cynthia said during her taped statement becomes questionable. (Recall "The Usual Suspects" and see the review of "Mortal Thoughts" by paul2001sw-1 on this website).
During the statement, Harvey Keitel asks Cynthia about telling Arthur what happened that night, and he goes on to say that Cynthia has always told Arthur about everything in her life. Keitel implies and states he believes Cynthia is lying; how unlikely it would be that now, suddenly, Cynthia decides to shut Arthur out and not tell him about what happened in the days following James' death.
Cynthia replies that she just wanted to keep Arthur out of it. Maybe because Arthur did know everything and was pressuring Cynthia to go to the police and tell the truth, or he was threatening to tell police what he knew.
Whatever really happened, Cynthia's first statement to the detectives is unreliable because of the lies we know about, thanks to the flashback at the end. Cynthia seems to have more of a motive to kill Arthur than Joyce under this theory. I wish we could have watched Joyce's statement to police! Great movie.
Since this movie is based on the true story of two wives who killed each other's husband, it's safe to say it was Joycie who killed Arthur.
Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...share
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