MovieChat Forums > Let Him Have It Discussion > The executioner

The executioner

posted 19 years ago by llscheppink
29 replies | jump to latest

Might be considered a minor part of the movie, but I did like the way they portrayed the executioner. Despite the harhsness of the sentence, not to mention the complete injustice, Derek was treated with respect while awaiting his execution, even by the executioner himself. Many people have a somewhat distorted image of an executioner being an evil-minded individual, but - at least in the UK - that isn't the case. Men like Albert Pierrepoint, who executed Bentley, were true professionals, dedicated to completing their task as humanely as possible.

I later read a report stating that Bentley had been crying on his way to the gallows, although this was denied by Pierrepoint himself.

[–] jasrust 19 years ago

He may have been treated humanely but (certainly in my mind), executioners are evil. A person would have to have something seriously wrong with them to want the job, and to take money for it. They are murderers, pure and simple. Just because they have a piece of paper saying the Home Secretary approves doesn't make them any less of a murderer.

[–] llscheppink 19 years ago

True, but the state is also nothing less of a kidnapper (when locking someone in jail) or a thief (when reclaiming stolen property); it's a matter of law.

[–] jasrust 19 years ago

There's a bit of a difference between keeping someone humanely in prison, reclaiming something that wasn't theirs in the first place and taking pride in the manner in which you break their neck! Pierrepoint and all his kind were sadistic, deplorable murderers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a left wing fundamentalist and I hate killers as much as the next man. But having two dead people when there was originally only one is a waste.

Killing, in any fashion, is wrong.

[–] pickle_monster 18 years ago

but you see it as ok for a person to rot away in prison? thats not a waste in your eyes? (i dont actually agree with capital punishment but the way you said that just made me need to respond!)

[–] Belakovska 18 years ago

When public hanging was abolished in Britain in the mid-1800s, a lot of campaigners had pushed to go one further and abolish the death penalty altogether. However, the majority of middle class reformers simply wanted an end to the spectacle of watching someone die as if it were some kind of social event (which in most cases, it was). As prisons cleaned up and the state took more and more responsibility for punishment and justice, the agents of the state became just that: they had to follow their own set of rules as dictated by law.

However, the unseemly task of execution remained, even behind closed doors, so a lot of time and money was invested in developing machines and devices that would remove the executioner from their unpleasant role. Thus, their hands were 'cleaner' and they merely pulled the lever, pushed the buttons etc. This is still visible today in the USA, where even the lethal injection is operated via a machine. It's all about the psychology of diminished responsibility, but essentially, an executioner whose actions cause the death of another equate to the same result as the axe-man of medieval times.

Spot the Criminology graduate eh?

[–] MrSnoobs 18 years ago

Pretty terrifying to know that if it were up to public opinion, the death penalty would be re-established in the UK in a heartbeat (no pun intended lol!). You rarely actually hear people voice this opinion though. In keeping with the subject matter, who would sign up for the job if it appeared!?

Why are you wearing that DAMN DONNIE DARKO QUOTE! GIVE IT UP! - Me.

[–] Belakovska 18 years ago

I don't know - you'd be surprised how much I have heard it. Usually every time there is news of an horrific murder somewhere (especially if it involves a child) a lot of people start baying for blood. This is often fuelled by the tabloid press, who seem to delight in both scaring people into thinking that their children are at constant risk from any number of monstrous weirdos and whipping up a hostile crowd into demanding a return to hanging. Needless to say, those same crowds are then vilified when they respond accordingly.

I think a lot of Tories would propose a return to hanging if they thought it would be politically expedient - Veritas (remember them?) actually had a policy that they would open it up to a referendum if they got into power (so no worries on that front then ho ho) and I'm sure there are pockets of other parties who would do the same, namely the BNP.

It's easy for these types to want a return to the death penalty when it's put in the context of Fred West, Ian Huntley and the like, but harder for them to fob off the more mundane, greyer areas. Argue cases like Derek Bentley's and you'll get the usual 'That was a one off, we would make sure that such accidents didn't happen' but that's never been enough to convince me!

[–] keeleboy 18 years ago

personally i don't agree witht he death penalty. I'd sentance a murderer to life then provide them with a bed, a chair and a fairly short but strong length of rope.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] lynseymccorquodale 17 years ago

That's why, in cases of a firing squad being used, one of the gunmen is loaded up with blank ammunition, so that if they later have an attack of guilt at claiming anothers life, they can console themselves with the thought that they may have had the blank round.

[–] Gary O. (997) 6 years ago

That's why, in cases of a firing squad being used, one of the gunmen is loaded up with blank ammunition, so that if they later have an attack of guilt at claiming anothers life, they can console themselves with the thought that they may have had the blank round.

Actually, anyone has shot a high-powered rifle would know immediately if the round in his weapon was a blank. Blank cartridges have no recoil.

Blanks are, therefore, pointless.

[–] jonathan-gorsuch 18 years ago

Before judging Albert Pierrepoint you might find it interesting to read
his autobiography, "Executioner: Pierrepoint", which is available from
Amazon.

He was actually the third in his family to be a hangman, following his
father and his uncle.

Whatever your take on the death penalty, and those who enforce it,
it is certainly worth a read.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Sniper800 17 years ago

There is an excellent movie about Albert Pierrepoint called 'Pierrepoint' or 'The Last Hangman' (erroneous title - Albert Pierrepoint was not Britain's last hangman) depending on which side of the Atlantic you are.

Pierrepoint is portrayed by Timothy Spall in a performance which shows what a fine actor he is. The character comes over as someone who is trying to carry out a terrible job in a manner which is both professional and humane.

Pierrepoint executed Derek Bentley, though this is not directly portrayed in the movie. However the executions of Timothy Evans and Ruth Ellis, who gave him the most brilliant and forgiving smile just before he placed the hood over her head, are depicted.

[–] nick suess 14 years ago

.."but .... executioners are evil. A person would have to have something seriously wrong with them to want the job, and to take money for it. They are murderers, pure and simple."

That would be a totally inappropriate and ill-informed comment by any standards, but especially so when it also judges those of long ago by 21st century standards. Back in an era when capital punishment was an almost unquestioned piece of normality, something which society took entirely for granted, there was a history in many countries of Europe (certainly France & Germany as well as the UK) of the task of executioner being passed down through families. Along with this went the culture and belief that it was an unpleasant job but society demanded someone do it, and it was viewed as paramount that it should be done swiftly and skilfully so as to minimise the suffering of the condemned. This concept arose directly out of the French revolution, as proposed by Docteur Guillotin, and this led to the invention of the device that bears his name (but he wasn't the inventor).

Pierrepoint could enter the condemned cell and have the man at the end of a rope as little as 8 seconds later. French executioners could have a man's head off within a couple of seconds of him being brought to the base of the guillotine. Swift and skilful.

Pierrepoint was meticulous that it was the legal system which decided when a criminal had to die, and since that was up to judges, barristers and those far more learned than himself to determine, it wasn't for him to question. He had the skill to deliver a quick and humane death to those whom society, via the legal system, decided must die. This does NOT make him a murderer.

[–] Gary O. (997) 6 years ago

He may have been treated humanely but (certainly in my mind), executioners are evil. A person would have to have something seriously wrong with them to want the job, and to take money for it. They are murderers, pure and simple. Just because they have a piece of paper saying the Home Secretary approves doesn't make them any less of a murderer.

Total claptrap. An execution is not murder. Granted, it is killing, but not all killing is murder.

[–] toonnnnn 18 years ago

Iwould do the job, the sooner the death penalty is restored and carried out in public the safer the country will be come

[–] megatosspot 18 years ago

Public execution for faulty spelling, I say.

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[–] the_famous_alexeh 18 years ago

if we stil had the death sentance innocent people such as the guildford four and the birmingham 6 would a have been hung for crimes they didnt do. people literally take the death sentance too lightly as if the justice system is always correct. if this film is close to fact then derreck bentley was hung for a man he didnt shoot which makes no sense at all.

[–] PabloDuganheim 17 years ago

Deterrence can be broken up into 'general' and 'specific' deterrence. General is, of course, directed at the general masses -such as how a majority of people in society fear of going to jail and prison and are deterred from committing crimes. Where specific is aimed at the individual and what is specifically done to them to deter them from committing a crime. The death penalty is said to be both, where as it is meant to deter the public by merely having it on the books and when applied to an individual, their death deters any further crimes. General deterrence has been shown to not be as effective for the death penalty as proven throughout history. Pickpocketing in England was a capital offense hundreds of years ago and during the public hangings of other pickpockets, people were so transfixed by the spectacle, that they were often pickpocketed themselves. But the pickpockets who were hung themselves were 'specifically' stopped from repeating the crime.

[–] Supertzar 17 years ago

Men like Albert Pierrepoint, who executed Bentley, were true professionals, dedicated to completing their task as humanely as possible.

Here's another professional, who takes pride in his job:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=99bd9b20ae

http://stage6.divx.com/Film_Fanatic
http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=12089049

[–] aykutalp 17 years ago

Turkey have abolished death penalty. Three decades ago, "gypsies" were executing people who have sentenced to death. Nobody wanted responsibility and I think this hypocrisy have been showed that Turkey have no right to execute someone. If you believe in your courts, this is just a task of justice so you should appoint your officers for execution not gypsies.

[–] Forrest_Greene 17 years ago

There's a pretty thorough account of the case online at http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A9115229 .

For what it's worth, it quotes Albert Pierrepoint, Britain's only official executioner & the man who executed Bentley. Ironically enough, after due reflection, Mr Pierrepoint became opposed to the death penalty. He said:

"I have come to the conclusion that executions solve nothing, and are only an antiquated relic of a primitive desire for revenge which takes the easy way and hands over the responsibility for revenge to other people... The trouble with the death penalty has always been that nobody wanted it for everybody, but everybody differed about who should get off."

The Web site goes on to note that, however:

"Derek Bentley was unavailable for comment."

Indeed.

[–] PhantomHelmsman 17 years ago

Although the basic facts in the h2g2 article are indisputable, take care when the author drifts into nothing but pure sensationalism towards the end:

"Derek's last words, before he plummeted through the trap door, were 'I never killed that copper'."

If the "author" was going to make something up, he could have at least tried to make it plausible.

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[–] marktayloruk (2378) 2 years ago

Pierrepoint did later partly change his mind I favour the death penalty in extreme cases and surely it should be quick and humane?