If you were there at the murders.... - Let Him Have It Discussion

[–] PlayItBackwards 15 years ago

I certainly would have taken that line to mean "Craig, shoot this pig!" In fact, I don't see how it could have been interpreted any other way. If the title of this movie, "Let him have it!" was about some guy who hands his gun over to the police and willing goes to jail without a gun fight, I must say I would not have rented it.

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[–] chris-1826 15 years ago

I must admit, much as I sympathise with Bentley, saying 'let him have it' can only be interpreted in one way. If he'd wanted Craig to hand the gun over he'd have said 'give them the gun' or something similar. 'Let him have it' is such a well-known way of saying 'shoot him', even now. But I guess we'll never know. I doubt even Craig would be able to answer the question.

Cake or death?
Cake please.

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[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chris-1826 15 years ago

I'm not sure it's a good idea to use the film as a guide to how the events transpired, it's obviously a sympathetic view. We don't know if the line was actually delivered as it was in the film (although it's unclear if it was said at all, both Bentley and Craig denied it, but then they would wouldn't they?). Don't get me wrong, I really don't agree that Bentley should have hanged for his part in the crime, he should have received the same penalty as Craig.

Cake or death?
Cake please.

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[–] lornamd-1 15 years ago

Bentley would deny it but why would Craig deny it as it wouldn't affect his guilty either way?

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[–] chris-1826 15 years ago

They both pleaded not guilty, and since they were jointly charged it would make sense that they support each other's story. I still think it's questionable that Bentley ever said it. Apparently, if he'd meant for Craig to shoot he'd have been more likely to say it unambiguously i.e. "shoot the copper". Further, he didn't refer to Craig by his first name, he called him 'kid' or 'kiddo'.

Cake or death?
Cake please.

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[–] j_ess 15 years ago

If Derek was his age emotionally I might have thought it but
I think he may have meant to give the gun up or put it down.

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[–] blimey2666 15 years ago

I think poor Derek was a victim of the post war years where the establishment of Britain was sick and tired of the youth who were rebelling against society. Britain had just fought a war where people had died for 'King and Country' and the youth were seen as mocking this with their music and their dress. He was made an example of in my opinion.The establishment had to show the youth that IT was in charge. I want to add that I thank God that those people gave their lives to fight to ensure that myself and others could live a free life.

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[–] information_police 15 years ago

It entirely depends on how it was said.

The way the movie depicted it, I would have thought he meant for Craig to shoot at the police

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[–] ollie501 15 years ago

Interesting that so many people think it meant "shoot at the police". I took it to mean "hand over the gun". I guess that proves how open to interpretation such a statement can be. Of course, this is only as the movie depicted. It is impossible to know, since the subtle inflections and nuances in Derek's voice may have sounded completely different to the portrayal in the film. The only people who know the answer to that were on the rooftop on that fateful night.

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[–] information_police 15 years ago

Exactly what I meant - the way it was depicted in this movie I think it is reasonable for people to have interpreted it as meaning to shoot at the police.

But, that doesn't meant that it was an accurate portrayal. And even it if was, that doesn't prove it was really Derek's intent.

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[–] tgrrrsss 15 years ago

Derek had the mental capacity of an 11 year old, meaning, I would imagine he didnt have the wider range of vocablury somebody of 19 would ordinarily have, he was also already under arrest at the time of the shot and had not resisted in any way, as such under the laws then and now he should never have been tried for murder but only armed robbery.

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[–] Altho73 15 years ago

Not only did both Bentley and Craig deny that the statement 'Let him have it Chris' was ever made but one of the police officers who had been on the roof throughout claimed later on (after he had left the force) that HE had never heard the statement either!!!!!

It is of interest to know that the phrase 'Let him have it' had been used in a similar incident some time earlier (Rex v Appleby, another warehouse robbery gone wrong where a police officer was shot) and had been instrumental in the perpetrator of the phrase (Appleby) being found guilty of murder, despite the fact that it was his colleague, Osler that had fired the fatal shot!!!!

Some people believe that the 'Let him have it' statement was a fictional creation copied from the earlier case to ensure that someone would pay the maximum penalty for the death of a police officer. Since the guilty party who actually pulled the trigger (Craig) was under the legal age of the maximum penalty then someone else HAD TO pay the price for the death of a police officer and that poor person was Derek Bentley.

It is also important to remember that during this period of time (and for many more years afterwards) people in authority, (school teachers, army & navy officers, the police, your boss at work, judges, doctors etc, etc) were held in such high esteem by the general public THAT THEY COULD DO NO WRONG!!!!!!

Schoolteachers could sadistically slap and cane children, military officers and NCO's could hand out unfair punishments, bosses could use staff members as their butlers and valets and could harass their female staff members with sexist remarks etc, etc, etc. The unfortunate victims had little opportunity to protest because people would refuse to believe the truth about these so called respectables in the community.

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[–] Studman_Productions 15 years ago

shoot him!

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[–] AnotherSchmoe 13 years ago

Interesting that so many people think it meant "shoot at the police". I took it to mean "hand over the gun". I guess that proves how open to interpretation such a statement can be. Of course, this is only as the movie depicted. It is impossible to know, since the subtle inflections and nuances in Derek's voice may have sounded completely different to the portrayal in the film. The only people who know the answer to that were on the rooftop on that fateful night.

Agreed. I just saw the film last night and I took it to mean "Give him the gun". He said it just following the cop telling him to hand it over, and the tone of his voice and look on his face suggested to me that he wanted him to surrender.

http://www.youtube.com/anotherschmoe

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[–] Elder_Yautija 12 years ago

Not after the policeman asked for the armed boy to hand him the gun I wouldn't.

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[–] HarveyManfredSinJohn 10 years ago

Assuming the police officer had just asked Craig to hand over the gun, as depicted in the movie, I'd be inclined on balance to believe that Bentley meant "give him the gun" rather than "shoot him". "Let him have it" in the latter sense strikes me as more of a colloquialism, albeit one that Bentley, particularly in view of his learning difficulties, may have picked up from gangster films at the cinema or through friends.

However, 'let him have it' in the former sense seems more like the correct everyday usage of the sentence. I can only therefore deduce that the judiciary of the time had such a paranoid view of the era's youth, that coupled with their outrage over a police officer being killed and the fact that the law didn't permit them executing Craig, a minor at the time, they were automatically disinclined form giving Bentley the 'benefit of the doubt'.

Irrespective of where one stands on capital punishment (personally I'm against it in all circumstances), the fact that Bentley only had a mental capacity of a pre-adolescent as established by Dr Hill of the Royal Maudsley Hospital, and moreover, was not even the one who shot the police officer (and today the UK is experiencing more of this nonsense with the re-emerging spectre of 'joint enterprise' being commonly used against people who just happen to be present when a crime is committed by another), I really don't see how the jury could have concluded 'beyond all reasonable doubt' that Bentley meant for Craig to shoot PC Miles via the words "Let Him Have It".

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