MovieChat Forums > Let Him Have It Discussion > Geography of 1950s Croydon

Geography of 1950s Croydon

posted 17 years ago by korax1214
19 replies | jump to latest

I think this is a goof (95% certainty), but I don't know with 100% certainty so it wouldn't be accepted as a goof (I know this the hard way).

The butcher's shop which Bentley and Craig were going to be raiding, and the warehouse which they actually did raid, were in Tamworth Road; and in more than one shot there's a sign for East Croydon Station, implying that that station is within walking distance. (I would say that something is within walking distance if it's within a furlong (1/8 of a mile), which is about 200 metres.)

Yet the present-day Tamworth Road (as confirmed by looking on www.streetmap.co.uk) runs from Reeves' Corner (the junction with Cairo New Road and Church Street) to the junction with London Road/North End/Station Road -- nowhere near East Croydon, although the eastern end is very near West Croydon Stations (bus/train) and the tram stop. The nearest Tamworth Road gets to East Croydon Station is about 1km (just less than five furlongs) at its western end.

Also, one shot shows Craig and Bentley getting off a 109 bus for Tamworth Road; this would have been in North End, since 109s (and several other routes southbound through Croydon Town Centre) went down North End until it was turned into a pedestrian precinct sometime in the 1980s. (I remember waiting for a 109 in the early 1970s, at the stop in North End opposite Marks & Spencer -- I think this was the very stop in the shot above, or at any rate near there.) At that time the 109 went nowhere near East Croydon Station (I know this from my own experience), although in its present-day routing it just about does so, at the point where Wellesley Road crosses George Street.

I thus think that this station sign is a geographical error, unless Tamworth Road was far longer (and a lot more curved round) back then than it is now; does anyone know any more about this?

[–] korax1214 17 years ago

I suspect that the error is that they got the wrong sign; they should have got one saying "West Croydon".

Certainly Tamworth Road must have been very different in the early 1950s from the way it is now (although it might have had trams running down it): on the northern side is a lot of houses which to me don't look to be more than thirty years old (though I could be wrong) whilst the southern side has the Centrale, which definitely didn't exist back then.

As a sidelight to this discussion, does anyone know when Croydon's two shopping centres opened? I remember the Whitgift already being open when I passed through Croydon one day in 1973, but the Centrale (originally the Drummond Street Centre) didn't open until much later.

[–] conisborough 17 years ago

You need to get out more.

[–] JohnnyFast 17 years ago

You really do need to get out more. i think the important thing here is the dramatic representation of an important event in British history. As you have pretty much said yourself, Croydon changed a great deal between the 50s and the 90s so it would not have been possible to make the background geography perfectly true to life. This is often the case in period dramatisations. It's a good thing you don't come from New York, for example, because I don't think you'd ever sleep at night from worrying about the bad geography in so many films and tv shows.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] lolstar6 16 years ago

im quite late on this discussion. Lorax1214 is right, it should have been west croydon, which is right next to Tamworth Road, i watched the film last night and I am also from Croydon. I get the tram every morning from Tamworth road, what made me confused was I though craig and bentley were from East London, they got the bus to croydon that night, you certainly cant do that now unless by train. A bus would take a good 1 and a half hour from E london, to croydon.

East croydon station is about half a mile from tamworth road, i get the tram to the station every morning as its a pretty long walk if your tired, i was wondering why the station was so close to the butchers, but i dont thjink it matters much, only somebody from croydon would notice it. good film though

"by the time im finished with you, youre gonna wish you felt this good again"

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] korax1214 15 years ago

Why though would the Bentleys need to shop at a butchers in Tamworth Road, a good 15-20 minute bus journey from where they lived?

The fact that rationing was still in force back then may have had something to do with it.

[–] pasymes 15 years ago

Is there anything in the whole world that matters less than this. I can't quite believe you've even made a post about the fact that East Croydon is half a mile from West Croydon. You must really have an empty pointless existence.

[–] bernie-81 15 years ago

That is an extremely rude and patronising comment pasy...

If, like me, you had ever lived or spent time in Croydon then such issues would be of Paramount relevance and interest. I lived there from 1965 - 2003.

I caught this movie on TV last night and was impressed with it... a real travesty of justice was perpetrated after an event played out in streets/places I know. Local Croydon people still feel strongly about the case and I think the family (Iris) still live there. My wife grew up just around the corner.

Having looked up the movie I note that the director also did 'The Krays', another related subject about '40's/50's Britain and that he is an Hungarian expat. Amazing that he was able to capture the atmosphere of the times so convincingly.

With respect to the locations; I also concluded that the 'East' Croydon depicted had to be 'West'...the old Southern Railway green station board certainly lookee convincing. The location building used for the break-in rang a bell and I suspect is somewhere in the Purley Way/Croydon Cemetary end. The house from which the two were spotted I think is in the Marden Road area opposite the cemetary South entrance. (Sorry don't have my A to Z at hand). There definately should have been tram/trolley bus overhead poles/cables to be authentic but this would probably have been inadmissable for budget and planning/safety reasons.

The only significant place I remember in Tamworth Road is the old 'Tamworth Arms'!

[–] pasymes 15 years ago

I've lived in Croydon for 44 years, so what? The fact that the butchers shop is the wrong distance from West Croydon has less than nothing to do with the point of the film. I can't believe anyone would care about such an irrelevant detail.

For what it's worth: the building they robbed was near A1 Spares but has now been demolished.

[–] stuartpgordon 15 years ago

I watched this film over the xmas break and am originally from Croydon, I spotted the East Croydon sign error straight away. Yes it should say West Croydon but then as much as I love Movies, I also realise for what ever reason, artistic, dramatic, story timing or a simple mistake, its never possible to make a wholly 100% accurate movie. Yet the film was fantastic and I enjoyed it immensely. Its just so sad that Iris died before the appeal was finally successful.

[–] JekyllBoote-1 15 years ago

I would be interested to know what your idea of a purposeful, meaningful existence is, pasymes.

I presume it would rigorously exclude any concern for accurate historiography, or any more-than-superficial interest in the past.

[–] pasymes 15 years ago

Actually the rudeness of my post has shocked even me, sorry about that.

As for the accuracy of the film: The station in the film is East Croydon - it's not a set - it's about 5 minutes walk from West Croydon and is a mainline station where the vast majority of people arriving at Croydon (whether they want to go to West Croydon or East Croydon) would end up. There is no link between the two stations. West Croydon is a minor station on a completely different line and you would be very limited in the places you could arrive from.

[–] chris-1826 15 years ago

When I watched this recently, there was a shot of the street Bentley lived in, a long row of terraced houses going slightly uphill. I thought it looked familiar, I'd swear it was in Reading where I used to live so I checked the locations on IMDb and sure enough, it's Cranbury Road. I wonder why they chose that, is his original address no longer there? Or is it just not photogenic enough?

We've got lumps of it round the back

[–] korax1214 15 years ago

Incidentally, in the report of the appeal at which Bentley's conviction was finally quashed (http://www.innocent.org.uk/cases/derekbentley/judgement.htm, "I -- The case at trial", point 17), there is a minor geographic error (which of course doesn't affect the validity of the verdict reached, but which I find interesting all the same): "[...] P.C. Harrison had been one of those who took P.C. Miles’ body to the mortuary at the Mayday Hospital, which is[sic] only a short distance from Tamworth Road." Which was true at the time of the case, but at some time in the 1980s or 1990s the Mayday Hospital relocated to Brook Green, a couple of miles further north, and by 1998 the old Mayday Hospital building had become disused (it has since been demolished). Hence the case report should have said "was" rather than "is".

[–] pasymes 14 years ago

It's Broad Green not Brook Green and, although it has moved, it is still a short distance from Tamworth Road. And quite frankly who gives a *beep*

[–] dazzr 14 years ago

I've come very late to this discussion but I'd like to point out that it isn't the real East Croydon station in the film. Everything that takes place in Croydon High Street (with the exception of the butcher's shop) was actually filmed in New Brighton, a seaside resort just across the river from Liverpool. The two cinemas in the film were in fact amusement arcades. The buildings have an authentically drab post-war look, complete with 'bombsites' and rusting corrugated iron because the street was in the process of being 're-developed' (ie demolished) when the film was shot. The pub opposite the Milk Bar (which was a genuine cafe) still exists and actually is called the Ship Hotel. In the scene where the boys watch Craig's brother's car (with Stella in the passenger seat) drive past the station, you can catch a glimpse of the River Mersey through an arch in the wall.

[–] HarveyManfredSinJohn 10 years ago

I'm just delighted to see Croydon get a name-check on the IMDb!

Props to last year's 'Iron Man 3' for mentioning our beloved South London would-be city too.

[–] blimey2666 15 years ago

I'm pretty sure Bently lived in Colliers Wood.