MovieChat Forums > Hachigatsu no rapusodî (1991) Discussion > Avoiding blame

Avoiding blame

posted 12 years ago by bhilburn
10 replies | jump to latest

As usual, the US was implied to be the bad guys in this movie since we dropped the bomb. No where in the movie was it mentioned that the Empire of Japan started that war, first by invading and trying to occupy and enslave China, then expanding it by bombing Pearl Harbor along with British and Dutch holdings bringing them into the war. The bombs were dropped to avoid massive casualties that were expected during the invasion of the Japanese homeland. Casualties were estimated to be in the millions (dead, wounded and missing). The losses at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were minimal compared to a full scale invasion and all the destruction that comes with it. Don't get me wrong, it was a terrible thing to do, drop those bombs, but when it came to killing the enemy or having our people killed, guess who loses out. And the bottom line is they started the war.

Japan has never accepted responsibility for starting the war yet, as well as their barbaric behavior towards prisoners and occupied peoples according to their anti-human "bushido" code. They prefer to play the victim, as the first and only receivers of the atomic bombings.

[–] dennis-karjala 12 years ago

I agree to some extent and was thinking along the same lines as I watched the film. But then it occurred to me why Nagasaki and not Hiroshima was chosen as the setting. bhilburn's defense of the US use of the bomb applies fully, I think, to Hiroshima. However, I have long been ambivalent about Nagasaki. We could have, and in retrospect probably should have, given the Japanese warlords and emperor a bit more time to surrender before dropping a second atom bomb only 3 days later.

It's also true that the Japanese atrocities and their starting the war in the first place are not mentioned, but, except for the grandmother and the grandchildren, the Japanese are not portrayed in a very favorable light. The parent generation is mercenary and selfish - even a bit stupid. And certainly Richard Gere's role goes a long way in suggesting that America at least did not remain the "bad guy."

Dennis

[–] bhilburn 12 years ago

After Hiroshima was bombed, Truman went announced to the world that the US dropped an atomic bomb, and implored the Japanese Empire to surrender unconditionally as called for by the Potsdam Conference. Still the Japanese wanted a "negotiated peace" with as many favorable terms to them as possible to include; no occupation of Japan, Korea and Formosa by foreign troops, a Japanese led tribunal to prosecute Japanese war criminals, demobilization and disarmament of the military by the Japanese and the maintenance of the Emperor and the throne as is. After Hiroshima was bombed, the Japanese rulers decided to ignore the tenets of the Potsdam Declaration and further calls for unconditional surrender by ignoring it.

The Japanese were not considering surrendering at all. When the Soviet Union declared war and invaded Japanese occupied Manchuria on August 9th, the Imperial Japanese General Staff declared marshal law to stop anyone from suing for peace in an attempt to continue the war. Later that day, Nagasaki was bombed. After an attempted coup, the Emperor Hirohito developed a backbone finally and announced that Japan would surrender according to the terms of the Potsdam Conference immediately.

Again I want to say that dropping the bomb was a terrible thing to have to do, but that terrible war had to be ended without further dalliance by the Imperial Japanese. On the average, approximately 11,000 people were dying per day in Asia and the Pacific war at that point. As long as the war went on, more people were going to die. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few here.

[–] Archeoterrex 10 years ago

And murica never apologized for committing genocide against the Native Americans. Your point?

[–] bhilburn 10 years ago

What does stomping the s#1t out of the Indians have to do with stomping the s#1t out of the Japs? Your idea may have some ethical merit someplace, so perhaps you should take your argument to a thread of a John Wayne or some other "Cowboy and Indian" movie and present it there. That is my point. Your point has nothing to do with this movie or the title of this thread.

"check the imdb cast list before asking who portrayed who in movies please"

[–] Archeoterrex 10 years ago

Damn murican, you sure got butthurt fast. Almost as fast as a jet liner flying into your skyscrapers.

[–] bhilburn 10 years ago

Wow

"check the imdb cast list before asking who portrayed who in movies please"

[–] Blueghost 10 years ago

I didn't see any of that in the film. What movie were you watching?

I'm pretty sure the super-majority of Japanese know how and why the war started, but there is a very strong significant minority that does cry foul about the causes of the conflict.

The movie was more focused about looking at the impact of the bomb affecting future relations. Gere's character is at home, but his relatives are concerned that he might not like their home, or that he may have some feelings regarding the conflict.

That was the whole point of the movie.

How you missed this is beyond me.

[–] bhilburn 10 years ago

I watched the same one you watched. Just because I picked up on other themes than you did, that doesn't mean I missed what you claim is the whole point of the movie. And no, the super-majority of the Japanese people don't know why the war started. And there is not much of any attempts to learn the truth there, which is a point of anger to many countries that suffered under Japanese occupation, such as China, Korea, the Philippines for example. It is taught in Japan that the US forced Japan into the war by pre-war trade embargoes. The embargoes were intended to force Japan out of China. Japan had invaded Manchuria in 1931. No where is it taught about Japanese atrocities throughout the war. The Rape of Nanking is referred to as myth and propaganda. No acknowledgement of the use of women as sex slaves at all in Japan, not even among the highest in government to include the sitting Premier. I have not watched any movie made in Japan that addressed any issues mentioned here, nor have they admitted guilt in waging an offensive unprovoked war. They portray themselves as victims, especially of the only two atomic bombings in history.

What you consider the whole point of the movie for you doesn't mean it is the whole point of the movie to others.

"check the imdb cast list before asking who portrayed who in movies please"

[–] Blueghost 10 years ago

What you're citing is the conservative minority in Japan, not the conservative mainstream, and certainly not the liberal section.

Last I heard about 20% of Japan's population believed in what you wrote, and that the larger reason the war is not discussed is because it reflects on the Japanese sense of shame and honor, and thus becomes something that more people wish to forget.

Note that in Japan popular media aimed at children in regards to the war, is more or less an attempt to diffuse nationalistic feelings as opposed to addressing causes.

There is a strong militant and nationalistic undercurrent in Japan. And that faction of Japanese politics does put forth that we, the US, forced Japan into a war, which, if you think about it, is more or less correct if you're of the Japanese commander in chief's mindset that you need to conquer to expand the nation.

The movie is not about any of the causes or reasons for the war, but the psychological repercussions of the bomb run that brought the war to an end, and a fear that an American relative might be angry, or a boorish conqueror, or otherwise unpleasant because of our victory over Japan. But his Japanese relatives discover that he is none of these things, and that there is nothing to fear.

[–] bhilburn 10 years ago

Ok fine.

"check the imdb cast list before asking who portrayed who in movies please"