Is she really crazy?


Do you think that Songlien actually went insane at the end of the film, or was the household just treating her as if she was insane so that she wouldn't be a threat? Perhaps a little of both?

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[deleted]

[deleted]

She was never insane!
Prove it, Gorbo. Although, on second thoughts, don't.

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As a Chinese viewer, it seemed obvious to me. She became insane in the end. So the household treats her as an insane dweller. As simple as that.

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it doesn't seem to me that she isn't insane at the end of the movie.

why do people think she is not insane?

does anyone think she is faking insanity the way she fakes other things in the movie? i can't say what or i'll ruin the movie for people but she says she likes to be alone so maybe she fakes insanity so everyone in the household leaves her alone.

thats the only reason i can think why she would fake it.

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She is a sane person in an insane environment/world. She lost her father in the beginning of the movie, probably due to poverty, and her cynical reaction was to marry a wealthy man. But even the wives or concubines of the wealthy get treated like livestock. And they get slaughtered if they try to find any meaning or love in this cynical world. Who wouldn't go mad?

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From Amazon.com

Raise the Red Lantern: Three Novellas (Paperback) by Su Tong

"The brutal realities of the dark places Su Tong depicts in this collection of novellas set in 1930s provincial China -- worlds of prostitution, poverty, and drug addiction -- belie his prose of stunning and simple beauty. The title novella, "Raise the Red Lantern," which became a critically acclaimed film, tells the story of Lotus, a young woman whose father's suicide forces her to become the concubine of a wealthy merchant. Crushed by loneliness, despair, and cruel treatment, Lotus finds her descent into insanity both a weapon and a refuge."


http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Red-Lantern-Three-Novellas/dp/0060596333/sr=1-1/qid=1165807112/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-3484953-6521735?ie=UTF8&s=books

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Aaand, end of discussion. Thank you info-3508!

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[deleted]

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane." Akiro Kurosawa

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[deleted]

God, the more of your posts I read the more annoying you become. What's your point? Really. What. *is*. Your. Point?

If there's anything more to you than trolling and grammatically incorrect insults, I'm *intensely* curious.

mm?



I will take the boy-man. [email protected]! He will have sanctuary in my tribe-uh.

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Gorbo obviously is not a Chinese viewer, since *beep* refused to digest the fact that by traditional Chinese custom(which was mentioned, oh so many times in the film), one gets sentenced to death by hanging if caught having an affair.

Just don't pay attention to Gorbo. This person is just here so *beep* can be annoying intentionally because *beep* has no life.

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[deleted]

So she got dragged up to the room wearing funerary clothes, a place where hangings are known to happen, and left. She's not screaming. Tied and gagged, you might say! Alright, so why did Songlian scream about a killing?

Jesus.


I will take the boy-man. [email protected]! He will have sanctuary in my tribe-uh.

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[deleted]

In Psycho, Marion Crane was never stabbed in the shower because we never saw the blade enter her flesh. It's just BASED on a book, and assuming anything else is idiocy!

I like how Hitchcock left that part ambiguous.

Christ, Gorbo. I'd love to see what you thought of 'The Holy Mountain' or 'El Topo' or 'Satyricon' or any other obscure film where not everything is on camera.

So go on, call me an idiot again. I'll just give you more references for you to not fall back on. We need to inflate your little ego somehow, don't we?

*pat pat*


I will take the boy-man. [email protected]! He will have sanctuary in my tribe-uh.

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[deleted]

Ugh. Satyricon was based on a manuscript. On another board you used the argument that simply because Meishan was hung in the book, it doesn't mean that she was hung in the film. Or do you forget your own posts now?

And in metaphorical films, anything is possible.

Su Tong's 'Wives and Concubines' may have been allegorical according to some reviewers, but Meishan got hung. She did, dude.

You need to get a new insult. 'Idiot' is so tired.

And I know you're going to find something to this, too. Go on. Prove me right.


I will take the boy-man. [email protected]! He will have sanctuary in my tribe-uh.

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Gorbo is a troll. There's really no point in trying to reason with him, because he is not interested in reasoning. He is interested in continuing an exchange so as to insult other people, which I suppose gives him some feeling of power. (That's a sad comment on him.)

IMDb actually has a good page on dealing with trolls (www.imdb.com/help/show_leaf?boardstrolls), in which they recommend ignoring them. Giving them attention only encourages them. Tempting as it is to spar with this guy, in the end it's a waste of your time and effort, and encourages him to do more of the same (for whatever sorry reason he engages in such behavior).

As I said in another thread, maybe if we're all very, very quiet, he'll just go away.

-- TopFrog

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Your advice is sound.


I will take the boy-man. [email protected]! He will have sanctuary in my tribe-uh.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Hahahahaha, gorbo, u crack me up. give it a rest, u've tried.

sad but i might have to agree with him on one point( just one, i promise) tho: killing of a wife who had and affair is NOT a "traditional chinese custom"!! eating moon cake during the moon festival or celebration of chinese new year IS custom.

btw, wanna see wat they do to those unfaithful woman back in the days??
(10 minutes later...)
sorry but i tried to google a picture for ya, instead i just found some forums and pages in text forms that describes it. if anyone is curious and have a friend who can type and read chinese then ask them to google the chinese word for "wooden horse" with the name of "Chin dynesty 10 brutal torture interrorgation" (or watever u call it, i don't kno the real translation) and you'll see.

but that's only if u don't believe wat i'm about to tell you. basically they take a saddle(for a horse, of corse) and attach a dildo to it. but, of corse, this is not a toy as some might think, this one has a diameter of about 10cm (or about 4 inches) and about 30cm long (or 12 inches), so imagine how HUGE it is. then they take the unfaithful woman, strip her completely of any clothing, bind her hands behind her, then she get to ride the "wooden horse", and by ride i mean she sits on the saddle with the enormous dildo inserted, well, u kno where.

ur probly thinking this is inhumane, but hey, this is china back about 4 or 5 hundred years ago, they don't give a rat's ass.

have fun on ur researches if u choose to doubt me, in fact i encourage u to find it for urself.

oh and if anyone is going to bash me for anything i posted here, plz don't bother cuz i'm not gonna come back to check if anyone did just that.




"I trust everyone. It's the devil inside them I don't trust." - John Bridger

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Apparently in the days when the Khans were ruling China, adulterous women were turned upside down and poured full of molten silver.

That's pretty cool. I like that one.

I will take the boy-man. [email protected]! He will have sanctuary in my tribe-uh.

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Gorbo, you are my hero.


God bless you.


< Ronald Mendoza 4 Lyfe > Crew Member Since 01'

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Apparently in the days when the Khans were ruling China, adulterous women were turned upside down and poured full of molten silver.

That's pretty cool. I like that one.


What was done to adulterous men?


*********************************************************

[Follow Me On Twitter!]
https://twitter.com/MyVintageSoul

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If you watch the movie intelligently, it is obvious that she DID NOT become insane. Her actions which were carried out in seemingly accidental or spiteful rage were actually well planned. She admits that the death of Yan'r was planned because that was the only way to remove her toxic and conspiratorial existence. Removal of 3rd Mistress was no accident either. The drunken stupor and resulting babble was well planned and well timed, although made to appear unconnected. My guess is, Songlian realized the utter futility of trying to live a life of jealousy, rivalry, slavery and volatility which created constant inner pain and frustration. Short of an actual act of suicide, I think going crazy was the only realistic option available to her and she took it by stitching an elaborate scheme. It liberated her from having to live the toxic existence and daily fights. In the painful context of a bullied Mistress, she perhaps took this as the best escape route. Now she can watch everything from behind the filter of a crazy woman, without being forced to fight for attention. In the social context of 1920's China, I think it was quite a brilliant decision if you are not cut out to be like the scheming 2nd Mistress.

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Obviously she was depressed and she was not feeling ok, especially after seeing the murder of the wife. But I believe she was not insane. Especially because when the master came to her room as every one was trying to calm her down after what she saw; the master asks: What did you see? she answers "you murderers" and she keeps repeating this as master repeats "What did you see?"

At the end the master just yells at her: "Nonsense, you have not seen a thing. You have gone mad." and he leaves.

I think it is just the family treating her so, just because the master said so, and just because she has already been a threat to family and this is the only way to stop her.

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I think it should be pretty clear that she went insane. This isn't a movie like The Prestige or Memento where the viewer is supposed to analyze every detail and come up with their own theories (plot-wise that is; obviously the symbolism is meant for interpretation). Could she be faking? Its possible, but the film gives no indication of this. The point of her going insane is to illustrate how oppressive and in-human the conditions of her life were, and the only solitude was to lose her mind. Why would Yimou want to rob the film of this message?

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I think a little of both. Branding her "insane" serves a practical purpose for the husband, so nobody will believe/care when she rants about "murder" being committed.

And, I think she DID actually go insane from the lifestyle. She believed there was little difference between her life and being a ghost, and in the end she wanders aimlessly around the house, totally out of touch with *reality* the way a ghost would be.

Just my opinion.

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the first time i saw the film, that was my impression - that she "became" a ghost ...retreated to the one sane place left. The realization that those surrounding her were insane, unable to believe in them any longer. I didn't so much think "oh, she checked out" as much as "oh, she gets out." Anyway, I like the film and i like gorbo. keep it up, brother.

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And, I think she DID actually go insane from the lifestyle. She believed there was little difference between her life and being a ghost, and in the end she wanders aimlessly around the house, totally out of touch with *reality* the way a ghost would be.


Not only the lifestyle but also the GUILT

I think its clear that when told of Yan'er's death and that Yan'er was calling her name, she felt responsible, even though it could have been avoided had Yan'er not been so stubborn

On a much larger scale she got Meishan killed

Yes the master and his men were the murderers, but it was Songlian's fault they found out and she knew it.

The oppression, the loss of the last thing of her father's

Her guilt at causing Meishan's death

It all got too much for her

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Yes. She went insane.

All lies lead to the truth.

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