I actually thought it was much funnier and better set-up, since the Beast is not mentioned at all in the intro (until the father stumbles into the castle) which gives it a sense of mystery. The whole sequence where Belle's father and the horse enter the castle was so much fun. After watching it, I think the first 10 minutes of the film were rather conventional.
shareNo, I think the actual opening is amazing, probably the best opening of a Disney movie ever. Such beautiful music and animation.
shareThe actual opening is great. I agree with you.
"What do you mean "parodies are exempt" from copyright law?"-J.R.R. Tolkien
I think the TC's referring to the opening, as in, the scene right AFTER the opening title (Little Town, or Belle if you will), not the opening as in the opening narration explaining how Beast got cursed.
I can't speak for which was better since I haven't even seen the alternate opening and don't even know what it's like (in fact, I hadn't even heard of there being an alternate opening for this version of the film. I HAVE heard of the Jim Cox and Richard Purdum versions, though).
I haven't watched the alternate opening, but what is wrong with the opening with the prologue in which David Ogen Steirs narrating, I like the opening that we have it, and we get the Beast's story and we know why he acts like he is, and I couldn't imagine the movie without it.
shareI haven't watched the alternate opening, but what is wrong with the opening with the prologue in which David Ogen Steirs narrating, I like the opening that we have it, and we get the Beast's story and we know why he acts like he is, and I couldn't imagine the movie without it.
Well, I do have to agree with you on one thing: The opening song at least WAS pretty badly handled. They could have used that time making the village to actually EXPLAIN why Belle moved to the village, and not just mention off-handedly that she moved the village some time prior (and it's not even clear exactly when she moved to the village). Not to mention, Belle's complaints about the village were pretty poor, and if anything made her look more like an arrogant snob, since the things she was complaining about were it being provincial and full of "little people." And they should have given Gaston more of a motivation than simply because she's the "most beautiful woman in the village" when the mere existence of those triplets flat out conflicted with that view. Oh, and actually elaborate more on WHY Belle hated being at the village, since there's almost nothing in there worth complaining about (and even the villagers' lyrics didn't exactly indicate they held Belle with any ill will, and other than acknowledging she's somewhat odd, they really don't do anything bad to her, Gaston aside). We can't even say she was financially poor or that that was the reason why she moved to the village, considering she was able to afford the time to read books, which even back in pre-Revolution France, middle class people, while undeniably literate for the most part thanks to the printing press a couple of centuries back, would not have been able to afford the time to read since they are in many instances trying to work their backs off on various jobs trying to eat, and the only time they might afford reading anything, it's spent on the Bible or the Catechism.
shareI love the actual opening, I think it's one of the most beautiful openings to a movie ever.
And the song is there to explain who Belle is and what kind of town it is.
Well, I do have to agree with you on one thing: The opening song at least WAS pretty badly handled. They could have used that time making the village to actually EXPLAIN why Belle moved to the village, and not just mention off-handedly that she moved the village some time prior (and it's not even clear exactly when she moved to the village). Not to mention, Belle's complaints about the village were pretty poor, and if anything made her look more like an arrogant snob, since the things she was complaining about were it being provincial and full of "little people." And they should have given Gaston more of a motivation than simply because she's the "most beautiful woman in the village" when the mere existence of those triplets flat out conflicted with that view. Oh, and actually elaborate more on WHY Belle hated being at the village, since there's almost nothing in there worth complaining about (and even the villagers' lyrics didn't exactly indicate they held Belle with any ill will, and other than acknowledging she's somewhat odd, they really don't do anything bad to her, Gaston aside). We can't even say she was financially poor or that that was the reason why she moved to the village, considering she was able to afford the time to read books, which even back in pre-Revolution France, middle class people, while undeniably literate for the most part thanks to the printing press a couple of centuries back, would not have been able to afford the time to read since they are in many instances trying to work their backs off on various jobs trying to eat, and the only time they might afford reading anything, it's spent on the Bible or the Catechism.
Maybe it is, but could they at least try to have Belle NOT emphasize that it was provincial in a way that made pretty clear she hated it? Not to mention the bit where she called them "little people" right at the beginning of the song. I'm sorry, but my idea of a pure of heart character (which Belle was supposed to be) would behave more like, I don't know, Terra Branford from Final Fantasy VI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UstFWEOt28Y; http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Terra_Branford; And honestly, if they do have to have her complain about the village, at least give a reason why that DOESN'T involve her viewing the village as provincial or the villagers as little people. Like, I don't know, maybe depict it as a wretched hive of scum and villainy like Gotham.
Sorry, but I have major issues with the opening song and how it, well, it really seemed to have Belle really seem like she had really... well, petty problems with the village (especially when the villagers' comments about Belle weren't even all THAT bad, as I've seen worse insults to Meg on Family Guy than the stuff the villagers stated about Belle. Heck, she was treated nicely by the villagers compared to her father, who most of them mercilessly belittled.).
While we don't know much about Belle's background, we still know one thing from a line in that song: she and her had not always lived in that village. It is very possible that Belle and Maurice had come there from a big city (maybe even Paris), where life had been very much different. It is also possible that they originally had belonged to a higher social class than the villagers. And whether you like it or not, a middle class girl from a big city would hardly connect with the working class people in a small village...
And I don't agree that their insults were that harmless either. They were basically saying that Belle was a lunatic, because of the horrible sin of... reading books. I'm sorry, but I can't share your sympathy for the villagers. Or for that matter, your disdain for Belle.
Intelligence and purity.
I realize this is well over several months old, but I might as well respond to this.
While we don't know much about Belle's background, we still know one thing from a line in that song: she and her had not always lived in that village. It is very possible that Belle and Maurice had come there from a big city (maybe even Paris), where life had been very much different. It is also possible that they originally had belonged to a higher social class than the villagers. And whether you like it or not, a middle class girl from a big city would hardly connect with the working class people in a small village...
And I don't agree that their insults were that harmless either. They were basically saying that Belle was a lunatic, because of the horrible sin of... reading books. I'm sorry, but I can't share your sympathy for the villagers. Or for that matter, your disdain for Belle.
(not said in the film, but it's implied they weren't allowed to read until the 1960s).
Where in the movie is it implied that women weren't allowed to read until the 1960s?
The movie never implies women didn't read, it suggests that Belle reads and daydreams all the time (she even reads while walking through town!) and the villagers find that odd.
The villagers found it odd that Belle kept reading and daydreaming all the time. They never said it was odd for a woman to read at all.
Yes, Gaston was a sexist who didn't think women should read. He doesn't speak for the other villagers, however. He simply says the town talks about her constantly reading books, not that it's not right for a woman to read. Just listen to the song, none of the villagers mentions that.
So no, it's not implied that women weren't allowed to read (otherwise people would've come up to her and grabbed the book from her hands, maybe even thrown her in jail) and it certainly doesn't mention the 60s.
Of course it doesn't mention the 1960s, the film's setting took place before that time. That DOESN'T mean, however, that wasn't what Linda Woolverton had in mind when she wrote it, and she made VERY clear that was what she had in mind when she said she used the Women's Movement for inspiration for the film.
And as far as Gaston, actually, he made CLEAR he was speaking for the villagers when he said that.
Linda Woolverton may also think Brussels sprouts are the most delicious vegetables in the world, that doesn't mean this movie implies it in any way.
But where's your quote that Linda Woolverton believes women weren't allowed to read until the 60s? Don't claim it when you've got no quote.
And as far as Gaston, actually, he made CLEAR he was speaking for the villagers when he said that.
Linda Woolverton may also think Brussels sprouts are the most delicious vegetables in the world, that doesn't mean this movie implies it in any way.
No, he did not. Don't put words in his or the villagers mouths. He simply refers to all the talk in town about her reading so much.
All the movie suggests is that that particular town is shallow for thinking it's odd that Belle reads and daydreams so much. It doesn't even say anything about French society at that time in general.
Linda Woolverton is NOT your college professor, she may have entirely different opinions. Not once did she say women weren't allowed to read, so don't put words in her mouth.
Gaston mentions Belle's excessive reading and then gives his own opinion on that. It's implied that HE thinks women shouldn't read, not the villagers.
So all we can conclude from the movie is that the inhabitants of this particular village think it's odd that Belle reads and daydreams so much and that Gaston is a sexist who thinks women shouldn't read. That's it!
Do you even know about "reading between the lines"? It's pretty clear when you read between the lines of what Linda Woolverton said that it is in fact the same thing as what Heather Lucas said.
If the villagers didn't think that, why didn't they tell him off right then and there? Doesn't matter if they loved him or not, they still had the right to stop him. If they didn't tell him off regarding that, it means they agreed with him. Otherwise, they would have made explicit that they didn't.
Give me a quote that shows that Linda Woolverton says women weren't allowed to read until the 60s.
The villagers didn't even hear what Gaston was saying to Belle, they were too far away. And they idolized Gaston, going against him would upset him.
Whoo... Well, here comes my reply.
To some extent, she still does. After all, she seemed to be able to afford the luxury of having free time to read, which is something the villagers could only hope for. Compare that to, say, the triplets, who are working as waitresses just to make ends meet.
They never called her a lunatic until the ending (and even then, only Gaston said she was crazy, not the other villagers). Before then, they at best considered her slightly odd (which really isn't all that insulting).
Heck, if people thought I was somewhat odd, I'd take it with stride since let's face it, being diagnosed with Aspergers does make me odd, even though I do try not to let it control my life).
It didn't seem like Belle and Maurice had any servant though, so I have to assume that Belle did a lot of housework.
Oh? One of the lines in the song "Belle" is "I wonder if she's feeling well". And we could see two guys doing the "spinning a finger around in a circle next to your head" gesture, heavily implying that she was considered insane.
Well, well... I found a fellow aspie! Interesting...
As for the rest... Well, I have to side with Stratego on that one.
Unfortunately, Belle basically decrying Gaston's intended role for her as his "little wife", which naturally would have included housework, would make me think she DOESN'T do housework. Why be upset about having to undergo the role of housewife if she's already doing housework anyways? Now, if they kept that scene with Belle actually baking a cake for her dad's return instead of cutting it because Woolverton had problems viewing Belle as being a liberated woman from that action, or even show her aerating the laundry like in the musical, that actually could work.
Hmm, I'll look into the latter bit, because mom mentioned something similar, although she mentioned old women instead of men.
[...]
Okay, looking through DisneyScreencaps, I did find ONE person who may have considered her insane: A housewife nearing the beginning of the song when Belle proceeded to hitch a ride on that wagon. She did the whole spin finger around temple thing you alluded to earlier.
All I ask is, if she absolutely MUST complain about the village, can she at least do it in a way that actually WOULD make us sympathize with her, like, I don't know, it being a cesspool akin to Gotham, or actually highlighting that her time in the village was pretty much hell like Meg in Quahog Town? The prior DPs (barring Aurora since she didn't even dream of going away) at least had valid reasons for wanting to get away, like the fact that with Snow White and Cinderella, they were essentially under a very abusive household and treated little better than a slave, not to mention realistically could not even hope to just run away from home (even with Snow White, it literally took her stepmom trying to murder her to act on running away), and Ariel at least had a dad who, while well-meaning, did not handle situations well at all, more likely to shut out Ariel even when she does try to explain her side of things especially when he's got a xenophobic view of humans (with one comment even implying the possibility that he would deeply consider committing genocide against humans). Belle really didn't have that with her opening song.
Plus, another thing I ask is, if they want to make sure she is depicted as pure of heart, a true beauty inside and out, in other words, couldn't they at least depict her more like Honoka from Dead or Alive 5 Last Round, specifically one of the times she wins against someone (like here for example: https://youtu.be/bY2RvvuXabE?t=22 or here, if you will: http://honoka-fc.deviantart.com/art/Honoka-Power-Blow-Gif-525407293) instead of mockingly waving goodbye with a smirk after throwing Gaston out (as demonstrated here: http://67.media.tumblr.com/9e93cbbfb4514c6059c44d66d371c783/tumblr_ne4uw4c23E1tt2x1bo6_500.gif)? If they want to have Belle acting in self defense against Gaston, first rule of thumb, never, ever smirk and wave goodbye in a mocking manner, as that just makes her look bad and seem like she wanted to do that anyway.
Well, I see it more like that Belle didn't want to marry Gaston (who had just insulted her love for books, laughed at her father's misfortune, just turned up in her house and expected her to be his bride, and who became the movie's "big bad") in particular. But that doesn't mean that that she would simply refuse to become a housewife in general, if a better man had courted her and proposed to her in a proper manner. Then again, Ms Woolvertoon did not seem to want to portray Belle as a future housewife at all. So I guess that you have a point there.
My bad, you're right. It was a lady, who made the gesture.
It is clear though that Belle was seen as the weird new-comer in the town, who had never managed to fit in with the others. That would be enough for most people to want to move on to something else.
What you seem to miss is that Gaston had acted like a creepy stalker earlier in that scene. So it served him right to end up in the mud.
Well, I do have to agree with you on one thing: The opening song at least WAS pretty badly handled. They could have used that time making the village to actually EXPLAIN why Belle moved to the village, and not just mention off-handedly that she moved the village some time prior (and it's not even clear exactly when she moved to the village). Not to mention, Belle's complaints about the village were pretty poor, and if anything made her look more like an arrogant snob, since the things she was complaining about were it being provincial and full of "little people." And they should have given Gaston more of a motivation than simply because she's the "most beautiful woman in the village" when the mere existence of those triplets flat out conflicted with that view. Oh, and actually elaborate more on WHY Belle hated being at the village, since there's almost nothing in there worth complaining about (and even the villagers' lyrics didn't exactly indicate they held Belle with any ill will, and other than acknowledging she's somewhat odd, they really don't do anything bad to her, Gaston aside). We can't even say she was financially poor or that that was the reason why she moved to the village, considering she was able to afford the time to read books, which even back in pre-Revolution France, middle class people, while undeniably literate for the most part thanks to the printing press a couple of centuries back, would not have been able to afford the time to read since they are in many instances trying to work their backs off on various jobs trying to eat, and the only time they might afford reading anything, it's spent on the Bible or the Catechism.
Unfortunately, Belle basically decrying Gaston's intended role for her as his "little wife", which naturally would have included housework, would make me think she DOESN'T do housework. Why be upset about having to undergo the role of housewife if she's already doing housework anyways? Now, if they kept that scene with Belle actually baking a cake for her dad's return instead of cutting it because Woolverton had problems viewing Belle as being a liberated woman from that action, or even show her aerating the laundry like in the musical, that actually could work.
I was watching the film tonight for the first time since 2003, and noticed her complaints too. It seemed a little a-typical for a Disney-princess in waiting. Some background story would have been helpful.
The Dutch translation is a little different from the original song text:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfnUfDsyqDE
It roughly translates to this:
"It's always quiet in our village, nothing new happens. In our village the locals constantly sing the same tune/ every single day is the same."
"This sometimes gets to me." (The village's inner workings and social interaction being repetitive.)
"Should I spend the rest of my life like this?"
It's clearly softened up. The villagers now come across as much ruder than Belle.
I don't believe Belle did not perform any housework. She is shown mostly reading, but she might have done her chores before that. After all, quite a bit of the day must have passed as Belle went to the village in the morning and then waved off her father (supposedly end of the morning, early afternoon). We then see Gaston appear, having organized an entire wedding - this must have taken sometime. Furthermore, we do see Belle go out to feed and tend the animals.
Belle might have spend her free time on reading while other villagers could have preferred to hang out at the local pub for a drink.
The original was the best I think..when I saw this as a kid it was really trippy for a 6 year old when animated movies were still relatively new. The movie sucked me right in.. it was really mysterious and awe inspiring. Really great Disney film
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