MovieChat Forums > And the Sea Will Tell (1991) Discussion > So, what really happend there!

So, what really happend there!


I think nobody answered the main question: what really happened there!
I think it is obvious that Buck killed Grahams, but how? And why Buck would cut the body with the chain saw, heat it with a torch, put it into the box and put the box into the lagoon.
Where is Mac’s body, I’m sure he wouldn’t let kill himself without a fight, how could Jennifer stay away from all this, and if she didn’t how could she pass the lie detector test?
Buck is extremely lazy (like almost all criminals), there are a lot of examples in the book to prove it.
Try to imagine cutting a body with a chain saw, it would be a bloody pulp everywhere, blood, pieces of meat and bones, then trying to burn it with a torch, doesn’t make any sense, but requires a lot of effort.
Buck could just push the bodies into the lagoon and sharks would take care of them. There are several episodes in the book which shows that it was extremely dangerous even step into the water for several seconds. Even if the sharks left parts of the bodies on the bottom of the lagoon, and it was found, it would work for Buck’s theory that Grahams were killed by the sharks.
I think only psycho would do a thing like that, but Buck wasn’t a psycho after all. He has a lot of criminal records but none of them shows any crazy or sadistic stuff.

Also I think that couple of Buck’s remarks deserve some attention, he mentioned to two different people that he made Graham’s walk on plank.
What is more interesting is that when he heard the way Muff’s bones were found he said that it wasn’t the way it happened.
It is not like I believe what he said, but it would make more sense either just say nothing or say that it was a complete set up, instead of that he kind of admitted that he did it but denies the way he did it.

I think Jennifer knew what happened there or at least figure it out, but she really didn’t have any choice there, she couldn’t fight Buck, he would just kill her.
What is really remarkable is that she passed the lie detector test (it was the main reason Bugliousy agreed to defend her). Imagine if Jennifer heard the cries of the victims, then saw the body cut by the chain saw, is it really possible to pass the lie detector?

I would really like know the truth, I think Buck has nothing to lose now, I don’t think he will go back to prison if he tells the real truth.



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There are only two people who can answer the question as to what really happened on the island...and neither of them are willing to tell the truth. So, we will probably never know for certain.

If the Grahams had managed to get off that island alive and leave Walker and Stearn there marooned, then the next person to come to the island on a sea worthy boat would have been killed.

These murders were an act of desperation on Walker and Stearns part. They knew that they couldn't get off that island in the Iola. I have little doubt that it was Walker who did the majority of the dirty work, but I have little doubt that Stearn helped him get the bodies in the water.

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Well this was my point, nobody actualy explain all things: Juniffer passed lie detector, body in the box cut with chain saw, heat applied to the body.

I thought about it and I couldn't find any reasonable explanation.

Since Buck is out of the prison he could finaly tell everybody what realy happen there, he has nothing to loose now.

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he was trying to burn the bodies to ash with the torch. then he would probably scatter them in the lagoon. that didn't work. so he just sunk them in those containers. muff washed ashore after a storm or whatever, and mac probably got carried out into the ocean.
the reason jennifer didn't go to prison was because there was a reasonable doubt. pieced together it made sense that she didn't know what buck had done.
she was pretty dumb and buck was abusive and manipulative.
as bugliosi states in the book, if buck wasn't trying to hide the murders from her, they would've dumped the bodies into the ocean instead of the lagoon.
mac and muff probably never would've been found so they would've gotten away with it.
dumping them in the lagoon made them much more likely to be discovered and buck's story proven to be a lie. if he had gone to all that trouble to try to torch the bodies, he definitely knew it was important that they not be discovered.

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Don't be fooled by Bugliousi defending the slut. Criminal defense attorney's are nothing more than prostitutes who will say anything on your behalf if you pay them and/or if they can fool the public into thinking they're celebs. Bugliousi saw $$$ on the horizon and thats all. He lied about his motives the same as all defense attorneys lie.

As for Buckeroo not being sadistic, what do you think making someone 'walk the plank' would be?

The slut knew what happened. Lie detectors pretty much only work on emotional people. She might not be concerned at all and that would calm her. She was said to have made a lot of money in business later on.... as the years passed...... and she could do that because she had no concern for other people. She took their money, gladly. I heard she was a Realtor. Thats always the perfect fit for a sociopath criminal. Being able to lie and manipulate people is what they do.

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what makes you so sure that bugliosi is lying?
and how is defending someone you believe to be innocent "prostitution"?
just because you believe this "slut" was guilty doesn't make it so. they couldn't prove she did it, and the evidence points to her being not guilty. that's kinda how the system works. i guess if you ever get accused of a crime you should just plead guilty rather than hire an attorney and try to prove your innocence.

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Flip it around. What makes YOU so sure he isn't ?

What makes you think Bugliosi or any criminal defense attorney "believe" anything other than $$$ ?

And just because YOU believe the slut was innocent doesn't make it so.

What "evidence" are you referencing that "points to her not being guilty?"

Describe the "system" you are referring to.

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the american legal system found her not guilty.

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Like the American legal system found OJ not guilty?

Like the 'system' that just released a man after 12 years in prison for a rape he didn't commit? (The inmate looked like a twin brother to the actual rapist who was caught. See recent news. The victim & the
former inmate are actually friendly today).

Like the "system" that has had to release various CONVICTED inmates due to DNA clearing them?

Tell me more about the "system" that you are referring to. :)

I had several more questions for you to respond to yet you avoided them. Wonder why? Just easier to utter contrary statements at others here online without understanding what you are saying?

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"Flip it around. What makes YOU so sure he isn't ?"
i read his book in which he states that he believes she was innocent and wouldn't defend a client that he didn't believe was innocent, just like he wouldn't have prosecuted a client that he doesn't think is guilty. he laid out his reasoning very well in the book about why he believed her, and used this same logic to prove her not guilty in court.

"What makes you think Bugliosi or any criminal defense attorney "believe" anything other than $$$ ?"
what makes you think a doctor is really diagnosing a real condition. maybe he just wants to charge you money for a procedure you don't need!

"What "evidence" are you referencing that "points to her not being guilty?""
did you read the book? no evidence pointed to her being involved in the murders. they couldn't prove it. one compelling piece of evidence in her favor is how the bodies were dumped. there's no reason for dumping the bodies in the lagoon if she was in on it.

and as far as the OJ case, bugliosi wrote a great book detailing exactly why OJ was found not guilty.

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Did I read the book?

Uh, yeah. So you're basing your entire anger issue on a BOOK written by the DEFENSE ATTORNEY ???

:)

Even if you read the trial transcripts, you'd not have understood ALL the evidence because evidence is excluded specifically to keep juries from understanding all the facts involved.

The idea that you based your argument on the defense attorney's book is only slightly less amusing than if you based your argument on "Buck's" book.

Anyone who defends criminals..... sucks. ;)



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So by "flipping it around" you avoided answering my questions.

:)

Thats not really very sophisticated, is it?

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you: "So by "flipping it around" you avoided answering my questions.

:)

Thats not really very sophisticated, is it?"


what? you are the one who asked me to flip it around and state why i believed he didn't think she was guilty. i did that.
now months later you come back to assert that i avoided answering your questions. please point out what question you're referring to, since you're so sophisticated, and state how you can prove that buck DIDN'T act alone in committing the murders. what evidence do you have that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that she helped?

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"and as far as the OJ case, bugliosi wrote a great book detailing exactly why OJ was found not guilty."

That's hardly a great book. It lays the blame on the prosecutors and ignores the 12,000 pound elephant in the room -- the 9 blacks on the jury that were predisposed to find Simpson innocent. History would have a very different opinion of Bugliosi if he had been the prosecutor in that case. Instead Bugliosi became famous for convicting Charles Manson. It would have been difficult to not get a conviction in that trial.

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Look how Ron Williamson was treated by the American Legal System...and hundreds like him no doubt.

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While Bugliosi does defend Stephanie, he doesn't exactly paint her in glowing terms in the book. She is described as lazy, uninterested in her own defense and very evasive most of the time. Bugliosi had one request for Stephanie: to put down on paper anything that would help him defend her. She never would do it.

She was always late to their meetings, or never showed up at all. Bugliosi's secretary told him one time that the Princess called and can't come in again today because she slept on a pea. That is how many times Stephanie gave excuses for not being able to make it to their meetings.

Also, according to Bugliosi Stephanie barely passed the polygraph. She scored a +7 which is a very gray area between passing and failing.

Bugliosi always had an uneasy feeling about Stephanie and let it be known both in the movie and in the book. I think he knew he was defending a guilty woman.

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Vince Bugliosi talks in his book about Mac brandishing his guns and bragging about not being afraid of Buck and that he would kill Buck if Buck tried anything. I think Mac and Buck got into it, Mac found out he wasn't so tough after all, and Buck killed him, and then killed Muff as well. Buck was a psychopath and Mac was massively stupid for staying on Palmyra with a man he knew was dangerous, as well as Muff being scared to death of Buck. I just don't get Mac at all. I don't understand why an independently wealthy man with a luxurious and well-stocked boat would stay on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere with someone who was scary and dangerous, and if he really loved Muff so much, he should have just taken the Sea Wind and left Palmyra and gone to some other island. Better still, Muff and Jennifer should have taken off in the Sea Wind and let the men duke it out, since Mac and Buck were equally stubborn and stupid and posturing at each other.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

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I read the book, and Buck and "Jennifer" stuck to their story about finding a dinghy upside down in the water with the Grahams missing. I think Buck shot them. He was gun happy, shooting fish rather than catching them. He was just an all round a-hole really. And then I think he then torched the bodies, put them in containers and dumped them in the sea. My question was always "Did Jennifer/Stephanie know about it before it happened? After it happened? She wasn't a stupid woman, and my guess is she did know about it after it happened and didn't want to believe what Buck had done, so she lied to herself.

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