delavina maxwell was quoted in an interview abotu that night, she said "garret was to scared to go back in and see if it was billy he killed." it sounds like garrett didnt even know if he killed the kid. she said she went in and then told garret that it was the kid. how do we know she wasnt lying so billy could go free.
shareThat has been brought up as a theory, that she claimed he was dead so Garrett would stop chasing him.
I have seen the photo of Billys alleged corpse, and the body had dark hair and a beard. Seems like I remember reading that Bonney was blond and smooth faced...
shareyeah I think it was said that he could only grow peach fuzz
shareYou did NOT see a photo of his corpse. No photo was taken of his dead body. It was common practice but no photos of Billy was ever taken, which has played a part in the killing the wrong man theory.
sharecapo_bastone... where did you see this photo?!?@!@?W?DSd
http://www.youtube.com/oneinchvag
Well, we also have to remember Delavina hated Pat, really disliked him. I believe in one interview she called him some pretty colourful names. So although Delavina said this is what happened that night, others had different accounts, like townsfolk and people from Pat's own posse.
It could very well be that she lied and the man lying dead that night wasn't Billy, or it could be she made the story up to make Pat look like a coward, or it could be Pat was indeed afraid. Either way we'll never know as the facts pull in two different directions. You can cast a lot of doubt on all the sides but never actually gain any real truth.
As for the photo of Billy's body, this is a complete fake I'm afraid. There was no photographer within riding distance before they buried the body, so no photo was taken of the corpse. But then some people also think this looks suss, why was Pat is such a hurry to bury Billy? Sure it was Summer and dead bodies tend to get ripe a bit quicker, but I'm sure they could have kept it cool in the meat house and sent for a photographer to take a photo that would make money, as was the custom with dead outlaws at the time. The whole burial was a rather rushed affair, although Delavina, Paulita and other members of the town said they did keep vigil over Billy's body before he was buried.
Again so much to discredit but no facts to replace it with. You only have people's words and each person has a different story to tell.
"Never bite into an apple without knowing what lies within..."
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the first thing that one of Pat's guys said after the shooting was that he shot the wrong guy? Wish I could find where I read that.
Also, I think the reason Pat didn't go to identify the body was so that he could claim that: 'to the best of my knowledge' he believed he shot Billy the Kid.
Then, if/when it came out that it wasn't him at all, Pat could just claim that he genuinely thought it was him, and Delavina cofirmed it. That way he couldn't be accused of lying or trying to cover anything up.
I think you are thinking of Poe. I think it was in Fred Nolan's West Of Billy The Kid, but I'm unsure it could have been quoted in quite a few other books
Anyhow, here you go http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/billythekid/qandi.html
That site is a good read, but it offers no answers lol
It covers most of what Poe said, I believe he later changed his story again though, and at first he said something different that was more in line with Pat too... so... yeah.
True, but Pat had no reason to lie from what I've read, his neck was on the block over catching the Kid, if he wasn't sure or knew it wasn't actually him, he was playing a very dangerous game. Pat seemed to be the kind of person that wouldn't leave his behind in the breeze. But maybe Pat had a good reason, who knows. I think Delavina was also said to have been called for to say if it was Billy's body because no one in Sumner believed the Kid had been shot, so they needed someone that knew him well to confirm it was. But again so many ifs and buts that it all just becomes guesses and assumptions.
"Never bite into an apple without knowing what lies within..."
Ah yes, it could very well have been that book, read that a few years ago.
Good link btw, thanks very much, I hadn't come accross that page before. They've certainly done their homework! They've got lots of Brushy Bill pictures there too (and a few John Miller ones).
It's so hard to decide if he looks like Billy. I quite like it being a mystery actually :)
Completely agree, I think it's the mystery that keeps Billy's legend so strong :)
"Never bite into an apple without knowing what lies within..."
This has become legendary. However it seems people are taking the quote out of context.
IF you believe Garrett's story and Bell and Poe also here's the deal. Poe didn't know what Billy looked like. Just had a description. As for the other deputy whose name escapes me at the moment it isn't known for certain if he knew Billy or not. If he didn't than he would also only have a description.
The Kid came across Poe and the other deputy and backed into a room where he was than shot and killed. The reason Poe said the whole you killed the wrong guy is because he did NOT believe Billy would come to this place.
People here the quote and take it totally out of context.
There's a whole slew of issues here. It's hard to believe the Kid didn't know they were deputies and would back into a room that is dark no less and go unarmed.
Let's remember though after surviving the Lincoln County War, than his daring prison escape he may have thought he was untouchable and biggest factor is he was
only 21 and at that age you do think you're untouchable and nothing will happen to you.
Problem is life was vastly different than and easily changed identities. Lawman were often no better than the outlaws. So seeing as things aren't done how they are now leads to Billy didn't get killed by Pat. Butch and Sundance also have the survival legend. Kid Curry one of the Wild Bunch also has the wrong man was killed. Even John Dillinger. Basically every one of these infamous outlaws have a survival legend.
The other deputy apparently gave 3 different accounts from Garrett killed the Kid as history now tells us. He also said it was the wrong man and than later said it was the Kid, but it was an ambush.
Those whom saw the Kid's body said it was him than others said it wasn't. Those closest to the Kid mostly confirmed it was indeed him.
There's fact and fiction and somewhere in the middle the truth. While there's a lot to dispute over that night, but odds are the Kid was killed. A coverup would be far too risky for Garrett's reputation. Which wasn't exactly honorable as history tells us. That would have simply ruined him. Also why would the Kid simply vanish?? He had a number of chances to flee and he always came back. He was days away from a hanging before his escape, which was more luck than anything else and killed two deputies. He knew Garrett would be more determined than ever and yet the Kid still didn't flee (not for long at least).
The Kid has become this folk like hero as have Butch & Sundance and the James brothers. As for Jesse and Frank they killed. Some of their victims weren't deserving of their fate. Butch Cassidy was quite liked even by those after him. According to his sister the film Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is fairly accurate in what Butch was actually like and he would do his best to make sure nobody was harmed in robberies. So unlike Jesss I can easily see the appeal of Butch.
As for the Kid. Most of his victims were killers as well and deserved their fate. In Young Guns it's good guys (Regulators) vs bad guys. In reality it was bad guys vs
worse guys. However I've read and watched a lot on the Kid and I've taken a liking to him. While he isn't the evil outlaw history says, but he wasn't quite the Billy of Young Guns either. But due to films making him a folk hero people wanna believe he lived to ride another day.
Unfortunately that's highly unlikely. People like to bring up Bill Roberts and the lesser known John Miller. But it's more fantasy than reality as far, far too many holes in their stories. Is it possible the wrong man was killed? Yea as like there's holes in Brushy Bill Roberts' story there's a whole bunch in Garrett's account.
My mistake. Bell was the deputy killed by the Kid during his escape. Just ignore his name in my reply.
shareHe didnt kill billy the kid that night..billy cowher or something like that...looked like billy but was mexican...brushy bill roberts was billy the kid..and he died of heart attack
shareSo you say that brushy bill was proven to be a fraud with no link, but want a link from me when I say the evidence suggests they possibly could be the same man? Well doing real research requires more than a few websites. I was referring to looking at Brushy's family bible that had all the aliases of Billy the kid, ie Antrim, McCarty, Bonney. Look at pictures of Brushy Bills body showing he had all the same scars that Billy the kid had. So again no link will prove either way. But do research beyond going on the computer and decide what you believe based upon real documentation and facts.
shareHe was proven to be a fraud ! His facial features were all wrong he new the kid but certainly wasn't him, in depth research isn't needed I'm afraid
shareSo slimdave are you referring to the study done by Clyde Snow in 1989 which was paid for by the Lincoln County Historical Trust? That can't be taken into account because Lincoln County has a need for him to be dead in 1881 by the Hands of Pat Garrett. Now looking at the Acton-Bovik study in 1990 at the University of Texas. They used photo comparison software that had been used by the CIA, FBI, and Interpol among other law enforcement agencies. Their study concluded that Brushy Bill's photo posed a 93% match to the known tintype. This study was presented 12th judicial District chancery Judge Andre Mcniel and a prominent Arkansas attorney Helen grinder in 1996. Both have stated publicly, that based upon the photo comparison study and other evidence including his scars and transcripts of Brushy Bill speaking fluent Spanish, that the evidence was strong and substantial that they were the same man. But yet you provide Zero Evidence that he was proven a fraud. And if you did do any amount of legitimate research, you would realize they could possibly be the same man. I'm not stating as fact that they are, but the evidence suggests they could be.
shareI've been looking long and hard this is the best statement I could find from aboutbillythekid.com
By looking at photos of Brushy Bill Roberts and Billy the Kid, one can clearly see the resemblance.
I?m sorry but people who think that must be blind. Look above at the photos...Brushy doesn't look anything at all like Billy the Kid. Not only were Brushy and Billy the Kid's photos compared and analyzed on a computer and the results were negative, but one can easily see for themselves, without computer technology, the two are not the same man. First of all, Brushy appears to have had some Hispanic descent due to his dark hair and complexion, but he did have gray eyes with yellow specks around the pupil. While Billy the Kid was of Scot-Irish decent, had light hair, was of fair complexion and had clear blue eyes. Brushy had a square-shaped head, squared jaw line, large but long hanging ears and average set shoulders. Billy the Kid on the other hand, had an oval-shaped face, a narrow chin, small mouth, round ears and very narrow slopped shoulders. The Kid also had thicker and longer eyebrows than Brushy (and as one grows older, their eyebrows grow thicker). The two men couldn't look more different. That alone is more than enough proof that Brushy and Billy were not the same man.
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Problem with using aboutbillythekid.com is that they've changed their story as different information came out. Their agenda is not the truth, but to keep the legend of Billy dying in 1881. Some of those photos they claim to be Brushy Bill is not him. Looking at the photo of Brushy Bill in 1948 and the Hispanic man on their website shows that they are 2 different men.
The analysis that they use on their site to claim Brushy is a fraud was paid for by Lincoln County Historical Trust, using a home computer and their own techniques. There is plenty of evidence of needing Billy to die inn 1881 for their tourism. If it came out that Billy did not die in 1881 it would theoretically hurt their tax revenue by a possible drop in tourism. There is no way they could be objective. The University of Texas did an analysis using the same techniques that the FBI, CIA, Interpol among many other law enforcement agencies, and they came up with a 93% match from Brushy in 1948 to Billy's tintype. The missing 7% can be figured due to age and dental work. Recent photos of Brushy showed blue eyes not grey eyes. Also even though eyebrows do grow thicker, is it not possible for Brushy to trim them. My Grandfather use to say that his dad and his friends used to trim their eyebrows in the 40's, so theoretically Brushy could have to.
Using any website to prove a point doesn't help the case. I invite you to do real research away from the internet and form an opinion based upon the true facts of the case not from any website that has an agenda for either side.
I personally believe Brushy Bill is Billy the kid. However there is not enough evidence to show either way being right.
Yes I fully appreciate your point. I get that the myth is required to essentially keep revenue coming in. It works on the same principle of Area 51, people want to believe.
Personally after many years of research I think he was killed, a young man of his lifestyle and flamboyance couldn't have stayed under the radar, sadly I think you'll agree I don't think we'll ever know the truth.
Slim Dave I agree we will never know the truth. Everything is possibilities. I never saw anything to prove either side conclusively.
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