I think the events that happened in the movie were real, I think he did indeed go to Mars I don't know, what do you all think?? part of me says that it could of been a dream.
shareThe intended Rekall ego trip foreshadows whats gonna in the movie, it's incontinent to any normal narrative usually you don't tell people where they're going.
An normal audience with Arnie in it would always hope thats it's real.
That's what makes the film great. You can take it either way, personally I think he got his money's worth and it was all an ego trip. Think about the rekall salesman, he spoiled the entire film, by explaining the trip, and everything he said happened
shareIMO it is quite evident that it is a dream. Not conclusive, but to me damn near :)
When he goes under at the Rekall lab, all we see from then on is his dream - even his brief waking up as Hauser - "you blow my cover aaarggghhh" is part of the Ego trip.
However, it is not a perfectly well orchestrated dream adventure we experience. It is an ego trip gone horrible wrong. The overall plot of the adventure was indeed designed by the Rekall engineers as intended, but the variations and how it unfolds as we go along (like oddities of including his wife and coworkers etc. in to the mix) was because of his subconsciousness and how it was slowly taking over. In a way the dream went out of Rekalls control. In other words; pretty much what the good Doc Edegamar explains to him (and us) at the Hilton suite mid way through....
There are many tell signs that it is a dream, however the biggest are (from the top of my head):
* The whole story with "blue skies on mars", "alien reactor", "double agent", "Cohaggen", "Venusville" etc. and even also our "sleazy Melina" are all setup at the Rekall lab before he goes under (watch the monitors in the background - even the "secret" alien reactor is shown there). It is all part of their dream adventure.
* Think about Cohaagens plan for moment. It is so outlandish that it really only makes any sense if it was sort of thought up randomly as we go along.
* The Doc at the Hilton spells out what happens from that moment on, pretty much spot on and scene by scene.
* Movie ends with fading to white (as he is getting lobotomized, again as foretold by the Doc). Movies usually fade to black.
Then we have the smaller hints, like why is it the Doc from the TV commercials that visits him and did he just happen to be on Mars then / Quaid goes to Hilton (odd choice for an undercover, but it is the choice advertised at the Rekall lab) / Mars is instantly turned blue, which is rather impossible / and there are many other smaller hint...
I have seen it a gazillion times and I was first of the believe that it was real. A straight forward action movie. Clearly, I am no longer of this opinion. And I think it ultimately goes to the understanding or realization of what the movie in its core is truly about:
The movie begins with him having a nightmare where he and his fantasy dream girl falls of a mountain on Mars about to suffocate to death, and then he wakes up and avoids this fatal doom of he and his dream girl, yet he feels suffocated in his real life still.
The movies ends with him and his fantasy dream girl falling of a mountain on Mars about to suffocate to death, except they don't as he saved the day a moment before. So he doesn't have to wake up this time and he finally feels free...
Everything in between is just candy. The movie as a whole is about him making his nightmare into a wonderful fairy tale dream.
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** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **
There are many tell signs that it is a dream, however the biggest are (from the top of my head):
* The whole story with "blue skies on mars", "alien reactor", "double agent", "Cohaggen", "Venusville" etc. and even also our "sleazy Melina" are all setup at the Rekall lab before he goes under (watch the monitors in the background - even the "secret" alien reactor is shown there). It is all part of their dream adventure.
* Think about Cohaagens plan for moment. It is so outlandish that it really only makes any sense if it was sort of thought up randomly as we go along.
* The Doc at the Hilton spells out what happens from that moment on, pretty much spot on and scene by scene.
* Movie ends with fading to white (as he is getting lobotomized, again as foretold by the Doc). Movies usually fade to black.
Then we have the smaller hints, like why is it the Doc from the TV commercials that visits him and did he just happen to be on Mars then / Quaid goes to Hilton (odd choice for an undercover, but it is the choice advertised at the Rekall lab) / Mars is instantly turned blue, which is rather impossible / and there are many other smaller hint...
First of all I 'd like to thank you for all your comments. It feels that you really love this movie and your support of "dream" version is really epic. Your thoughts of Melina's role in the other thread were very interesting to me.Thanx man :-) You know, I was in the opposite camp for the first many many years, and I saw it as a typical straight forward action flick. No more, and no less… but there was one thing that had always bugged me. And oddly enough, it was not any of the issues I mention above. What was it, you may ask? It was that Quaid decided that the Doctor was lying because of his drop of sweat… I never quite understood this.
1."Blue skies", "aliens" and "Venusville" are all can be just coincidences.… and “Hilton”, and “Double agent”, and “Alien Artifact” (the latter is specifically shown just like the one we later see), and "Melina" and her " sleazy personality"… and yes Indeed they could all be coincidences, but too a bit odd that they are specifically and precisely mentioned to Quaid as part of his dream adventure, exactly as it later turned out. Mind you, it was not Hotel Marriott after all ;-)
"aliens" are always linked with space and other planetsWhich is precisely why they ought to appear in a made up fantasy like this. And yet none of such were ever mentioned in the news or in any other way outside of the dream. Also, a drawing of the alien reactor we later see is briefly shown at the Rakall lab… now that is a coincidence, if in fact we are not in a dream.
"blue skies" - I think that in that time when Mars was colonized by people it was a common theme and people (espescially Mars inhabitants) were waiting for it.This is a straw-man argument (no offence meant). The only reason this is relevant here is because this is what the Alien reactor seemingly could do. Nothing in the story pushed us here, beside the Rekall lab. In other words, not part of the reality and not part of the politics then either. Mars had problems and indeed producing clean air was an issue. But in no way was it presented that anyone hoped for the skies to turn blue, or that perhaps there was a secret technology kept under wraps that could do this... Again, who knows? But to assume that the aliens and their blue-sky magic is a natural progression of the current political situation presented to us, is stretching it a bit to far, imo.
2. Cohaagen plan was extremely sophisticated.This is more or less my biggest argument. The plan seems so random thought up as though it was mostly made up as we go along. Like his subconsciousness is randomly trying to make sense of what it is dreaming. Still to this day, I am not exactly sure what Cohaagens plan actually was. Why do that thing at the hotel with the Doc? If they would have convinced Quaid that he was still at Rekall… how would that help anything? I mean, he had already been at the Resistance. Also how could Cohaagen have the Doc from the Tv commercials on earth standing by ready on Mars? And a bigger question is that if they could not get near Kuato because he could sniff out double agents, why send in Benny; he was also a double agent and his role was pivotal for the plot to work? And why send in someone who actually has the secret information you are trying to hide? Surely it is better to send in someone who is actually oblivious or who has dummy information. And what would it even help to have Quaid live out with a fake family? Really, why? You know, a lot can be rationalized in some creative way, but it sure as hell seem far out when we think a little bit about it, doesn’t it?
For him situation was win or die.Kohaggen was doing pretty well as I remember. So for him it was total control or almost total control. No?
3. I think Cohaagen had a great anticipation. And Doc was saying to Quaid what Cohaagen had told him to say. He tried to provoke Quaid and make him think it was a dream. But Quaid stood the testYes, but why? The cat was already out of the bag… the game was afoot. Actually the Doc incident did exactly what it should do. Quaid failed the “test” and helped Cohaagen here. This hotel scene is what finally convinced Melina that Quaid was telling the truth and so should be introduced to Kuato…. If Quaid had taken the red pill, well…. How would this help the great plan? Truth is, if they simply had put him in prison at this point, then it would have intrigued the Resistance enough to spring him free and get him to Kuato, imo. That whole Doc thing was pointless... unless, we are having a dream ;-)
4. I think fading to white symbolizes the great moment, the great change that has just happened, the great future that was lying ahead of Mars inhabitants. And I think our hero doesn't deserve a thought that it symbolizes lobotomize.Sorry for repeating myself, but this is what happens in the end:
I personally think he got what he paid for. The only thing that makes me have any doubt is when he tells his jackhammering coworker at the beginning. When Arnold goes back to jackhammering his buddy's extended look of disgust always makes me have doubts.
shareI personally think he got what he paid for. The only thing that makes me have any doubt is when he tells his jackhammering coworker at the beginning. When Arnold goes back to jackhammering his buddy's extended look of disgust always makes me have doubts.
Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum. Is very bad.share
The one thing a woman Doctor caught my attention that make me think it isn't a dream after all, she said his memory hasn't been implanted. Yes, Quaid fell asleep only because he was on a sedative but his memory was not implanted as the doctor claimed.
One more thing, a doctor (from a commercial in a subway) came to see Quaid laid out the plan for him to pick a red pill. The doctor told him the pill will wake him up from the dream but in reality, if Quaid took the pill, he will be dead which is why the doctor sweated. He shouldn't be nervous and sweated from it if it was all dream.
One more thing, a doctor (from a commercial in a subway) came to see Quaid laid out the plan for him to pick a red pill. The doctor told him the pill will wake him up from the dream but in reality, if Quaid took the pill, he will be dead which is why the doctor sweated. He shouldn't be nervous and sweated from it if it was all dream.
Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum. Is very bad.share
Quaid made the doc sweat, as in the remake he put a bulletproof vest on his friend, it's his subconscious making up these things to make him believe it's real.
shareHer saying hasn't been implanted yet is part of the dream since it's a free formed delusion based on the intended ego trip.
shareIsn't exactly part of the program, it was a free formed delusion based on it but was inventing it himself as he goes along.
shareI think that everything happened for real. But let's imagine it was a dream that was provided by Rekall. In that case Quaid was supposed to wake up once and think that everything has happened for real. So deadly fight with his wife, his intention to nail Cohaagen, who was a real political person. And who was backed by Government (it was clear considering TV news that Quaid watched with his wife before his going to Rekall). Wasn't it too risky for a commercial structure as Rekall to implant such memories into a random client's head? Imagine, he wakes up and begins thinking and talking that his wife wants to kill him and that the chief of Mars Government is a real bad guy? I doubt it.
shareActually it was a free formed delusion based on his intended ego trip that for some reason went haywire, attacking his personal life and him as a person.
shareI will reply your post above when I have better time :) but thank you
Anyway to this post I will say that you have a good point IF this was what the Rekall lab intended.
It was not.
It iis not a perfectly well orchestrated dream adventure we experience and this fail is actually what the move is about in a way. It is a failed dream adventure. It is an ego trip gone horrible horribly wrong.
The overall plot of the dream adventure was indeed designed by the Rekall engineers as intended, but the variations and how it unfolds as we go along like those oddities you mention of including his wife and coworkers etc. in to the mix was because of his subconsciousness and how it was slowly taking over. In a way the dream went out of Rekalls control. Which is actually what Doc Edegamar explains to him (and us) at the Hilton suite mid way through....
Cohaagen though is, as I remember, mentioned at Rekall. And I dare say this is perhaps odd but perhaps not. Were you to design a secret spy thing I am sure you too would consider including Barack Obama. And I think this is what Rekall lab did. That Quaid ended up killing him was or could be because of Quaids subconsciousness. Hard to say really.
Well, I haven't watched the movie for a while so I've forgotten some things. Yesterday I watched it once again but not just as an action flick (as I did so many times in the past) but as a much more serious movie. And of course during watching it I kept thinking of the things i had read here (espescially your posts).
First of all I must admit I have always mistakenly thought that Quaid's visiting Rekall was arranged by Cohaagen. I even assumed that Cohaagen and the Agency ordered Rekall personel what to do with Quaid (maybe because the guy said: "We're talking about the <beep> Agency!"). Generally speaking to start the machine: to wake up Hauser in Quaid to begin his return to Mars and contact with rebels. But it seems i was wrong. As I understand, Cohaagen was going to do that but using some other methods.
So yesterday for the first time I noticed that there was something surreal in action that was happenning in the movie. And not because it's a sci-fi action movie but because it was made so deliberately. The shooting, the chases, the over the top violence. I must admit everything has a dreamlike feel.
So now I feel I'm starting to decline to the Dream version!
So yesterday for the first time I noticed that there was something surreal in action that was happenning in the movie. And not because it's a sci-fi action movie but because it was made so deliberately. The shooting, the chases, the over the top violence. I must admit everything has a dreamlike feel.Spot on. When all the pieces are put together... a dream makes the most sense. Not conclusively for sure, but damn near :)
I also remember the bizzare crossfire when Quaid used the hologram. Even if Quaid was real then Richter's men could easily kill each other. However I don't understand how a hologram could stop a bullet?
But there was a similar moment in Verhoeven's Robocop. In the beginning when the Robot is shooting at the OCP's employee neither one bullet hit the window. Maybe Verhoeven simply doesn't pay much attention to such situations?
The odd thing about the magic hologram thing is that Melina also used it and in her ploy their bullets did pass through it and hit the opposing standing soldier. But, as you say, it did not work like this when Quad used it.
We can deduce that either is it a spoof (and lets be honest, it is likely just that) or that as the story unfolding it will fit to what ever the situation requires or aspires to be, sensible or not - like dreams often do ;)
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** I am normally not a praying man, but if you are up there, please save me Superman **
Melina also used it and in her ploy their bullets did pass through it and hit the opposing standing soldier
I think there's no definitive answer, and that's the whole point. The whole story is about the line between fantasy and reality being blurred, and never really knowing which side you're standing on. Quaid is never sure if what he's experiencing is real or a dream, and neither should we be.
shareMaybe there is no right answer. I think the director intentionally made it so you could take it either way. He wanted to have his cake and eat it, too.
I like the idea that it's all memory implants, but I just watched a scene which did not have Arnold in it. That would seem to be inconsistent with memory implants. How can you "remember" a scene you weren't in?
If a woman like the character played by Sharon Stone in her prime couldn't marry a "lousy construction worker" then yes, it was real.
It is possible either way that it could be a dream or reality. I really want to think that it is reality but there is way too much evidence that it is a dream that I can't look past.
share