Junk


I've wanted to see this film for years and FINALLY caught it when FLIX aired it a few days back. Disappointed to find out it's nothing but a overly-simplistic, biased sermon. The type of film "educated" but unintelligent people think is clever (these are the same type of people who keep all their college texts on the shelf as adults, but don't own any other books). It's trite junk. If you want to see a movie in which people have real ideas and opinions that will actually make you think and reflect and are worth debating, try "My Dinner With Andre".

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The problem isn't the theory, it's the presentation. If you can't tell the difference between discourse and a sermon... well, I guess debating with you is a pointless endeavor.

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Thanks for proving my point.

Good call on me waiting 18 months for someone to respond- I never even closed this window! The worst is when we had a power outage and I had to hook up a generator in case anyone responded so I wouldn't miss it.

For anyone else reading this thread, I maintain that a true discussion of ideas presents two or more sides to an issue and debates them. When everything one person says is presented as correct while the onlookers just nod and agree wholeheartedly, almost falling all over themselves in an attempt to see who can stick their head furthest up the speaker's rear, this is not intelligent discourse, or even discourse at all. There's nothing wrong with presenting the central thesis of this picture for viewers to make up their minds about, but to pretend it's a critical examination when no one disagrees with the only side fairly presented is poppycock, which is a polite way to say bull.

Not to say this movie is unrealistic as a narrative however- in my experience, guys attracted to a woman (as the two male characters seem to be here) will often agree with any nonsense if they think it will get them somewhere with her.

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Once again, victory is mine!

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after watching it i googled systems theory, its all really interesting stuff, i understand your point about the one sidedness, but who cares really, it presents some interesting ideas and perspectives on the world

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how is it nonsense? as though it's not something that fleets you too?

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You didn't like the film but you didn't specify what it is you don't agree with regarding system theory.

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The reason the ideas are presented as truth is because they are true. Some points are not debatable - global warming, well many thought it was until recently. If you disagree simply explain why you believe systems theory as presented in Mindwalk is false. Some facts we believe to be true - as true as we are capable of understanding at the time - as Newtons theory was.

Randy M Still

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Haha well comix, I don't disagree with you, but I just had an observation.

I just noticed that all of the replies to your thread besides your own post have been deleted.

Makes me kinda wonder just what was said!

But yes, this movie...is very preachy. Like some kind of self-manipulation for those who agree with what the film has to say.

But yanno, it seems to me that more often than not when a writer or director wants to express a line of thinking similar to that expressed in "Mindwalk", they end up getting preachy, and I just really can't put up with that in any media, agree or disagree...Just torques my gears.

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I'm with the original poster...I saw this today, and it was just...well, awful. Movies like "An Inconvenient Truth" can be 'preacy' and still be entertaining.

This movie was chock-full of run-on sentences the size of paragraphs, dogmatic "debates" that were simply people talking 'at' one another.

It was certainly not entertaning, which, at the base level, is what a movie is supposed to be. As a movie, it doesn't deserve any more than 4/10 stars.

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All speech is full of run-on sentences. We don't speak flawless grammatically-correct English when we're being real with each other.

This is a great movie because it's more than just a sermon. It's an exposition of ideas and arguments against them. The three people part not having decided anything. In that sense it's extremely realistic; intelligent people do get together and have long abstruse conversations about ephemeral subjects, just for the sake of exchanging ideas. If we can tell whose side the director and/or the writer are on that's a failing of the screenplay, but the ideas and their presentation are interesting. That's what some of us want in a movie, as opposed to fantasy or shoot-'em-up action flicks.


"The value of an idea has nothing to do with the honesty of the man expressing it."--Oscar Wilde

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Interesting. You know people who keep all their college texts on a shelf, but possess no other books? How many months have they been out of college? It isn't a pissing contest between "Mindwalk" and "My Dinner With Andre." Both movies are entertaining and provocative in their own unique ways.I recently saw both movies again and came to realize that I held a rather romanticized view of the content of "Andre." It wasn't nearly the provocative spark generator I recalled. And yet each time I do see it, something fresh stirs within.

Likewise, there are very real ideas in "Mindwalk" that you are free to accept or reject or ridicule -- but seriously let's respect the rights of others to decide what is good for themselves.

I'd rather hear why you think "Andre" is more worthy than "Mindwalk." Not simply that you believe it is so. Share your thoughts, my friend. Leave the pedantry to the neoconservatives.

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Share your thoughts, my friend. Leave the pedantry to the neoconservatives.


I'm sure you don't realize how hilarious that statement is.

Mindwalk is a hopelessly didactic rant written and executed by people too busy fawning over themselves to present well rounded arguments. None of the ideas pontificated on at such length are remotely new or innovative, which wouldn't necessarily be a flaw if they weren't presented as such, and with such sage pomposity. It's a good thing Ullman's neo-liberal, proto-communist high priestess is given such ignoramuses to preach to -- they have to be the only presidential candidate and well-regarded poet who have never heard that atoms are mostly empty space, and would thus suffer her remedial lesson on it. Christ, that was brought up five years earlier in Buckaroo Banzai, and in a about a tenth of the time.

Good God, this film is in love with itself. It's like watching the mating dance of three malignant narcissists. The writers are not interested in actually wrestling with big ideas, with presenting the tension between different reference frames and sparking debate. Instead, the film is a polemic -- preachy, pretentious, and even implicitly advocating for the overthrow of western civilization. It's a shallow and ultimately ineffective excercise in preaching to the converted, because it can only appeal to people who already agree with its core positions.

Good actors and some few-and-far-between insightful observations can't save this sophomoric mess.

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I sort of had the same experience. I saw it in 1990 and remember liking it at the time. It happened to be on TV the other night, so I watched it again and ... well, you know what happened.

Sigh indeed.

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I'm enjoying this thread. It is like the movie in relation to some of the vervbal structure.. People here, are tossing around words they apparently just looked up in the dictionary and, having chosen a meaning that sounds close to what they wish to convey, have inserted them with less than thought than a teenager attempting to write his first hall pass.
Should I know somewhat of this subject? I have been correcting papers for 30 years. And I have read and seen all the tricks.

This thread is more of an ego ladder, each person trying to grab the highest rung. This seems to be only true for those defending the lack of substance for this movie. Those who enjoyed it responded here and on several other posts, seem to feel that it is not required that they attack or bloat over what they believe is a verbal victory.

This movie has a little for everyone; you either love it, hate it, or sit in the boat I am currently in. I can see it for what it is. Newspapers are written for an 8th grade education. This movie might have opened many minds that otherwise would never have tried to 'learn' this much about life and the universe.

The movie also was a success because it does what is expected of art. It makes you feel something. This thread proves it.

But keep it real. In an attempt to appear deep, many look shallow. I have tried to use small words here and a simple approach to the subject so that everyone, including myself, can understand. Had I wanted to, I could run rings around anything written in 'junk', and with the right words.....

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Couple of quotes from your post.

This thread is more of an ego ladder, each person trying to grab the highest rung.


And

Had I wanted to, I could run rings around anything written in 'junk', and with the right words.....


Hilarious!

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I just watched this movie today. After it was over I logged onto IMDB hoping to find some explanation about what the film maker was thinking when he made this crap. I almost posted a new topic asking 'is any subject discussed in this film valid'. I realize now there's no need for such question.

I kept expecting some irony to seep in or something. People have already gone down the laundry list of problems, so I won't be redundant. It was just typical new-agey pseudo-philosophy without any humor.

The only thing I'd add to this thread is that I didn't like My Dinner with Andre either, but it WAS entertaining and smart. Mindwalk is a libel against humanity.

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I agree with the movie's presentation being poor, it could've been better.

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But far less well acted. The innocent pomposity of this film reminds me of a precocious adolescent, and thus I am reluctant to be harsh about it. Suffice to say, no lofty thought that has passed through the filmmmakers' minds has missed being paraded. It's better as a lecture; the attempts to naturalize the dialogue onyl make things worse. Some lines would produce laughs from your average snotty college crowd.

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I'm not entirely sure where the original poster came upon the idea that "truth" is somehow dependent on two different "points-of-view" arguing with eachother. I won't deny that many of the things we hold true came as the result of "dialectical" arguments (a word I'm sure the OP would have used if he had a bit more faith in the apparent lowlife majority that drives the internet band-wagon these days...), but just because there's no challenge against what is being said does not make its content 'false'. If something like this were the case, than anything resembling 'truth' would be lost in an infinite regress of premise and challenge (which is of course still a plausable state of affairs, though in that case the concept of 'truth' would be worthless as the value judgement the OP is intending it to be.)

And since Wikipedia articles are so open to vandelism, It's probably best we just get rid of the word "truth" altogether...

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