MovieChat Forums > Internal Affairs (1990) Discussion > One more time with the panties

One more time with the panties


The majority seem to think that Kathleen and Dennis weren't together (which I agree with). So, if Dennis wasn't with her, it means that Dennis had to break in and get the panties. Kathleen recognized the panties as hers - so does that mean that if she wasn't with Dennis that she just assumed that Raymond went home and for some strange reason took a pair of panties from their drawer and brought them to the restaurant? Also, when Raymond had her sit down in the restaurant, was he able to determine if she had panties on (it seemed like he was trying)? Because if she didn't, it would kind of question the theory that she wasn't with him.

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I assume that she wouldnt let Raymond get his hand up high enough to check. From this he assumed that she had something to hide (Dennis had done a good job of making him irrational).

I dont know if Dennis did break in to get the panties, but it's certainly possible. More likely, IMHO, he just got a random pair from his wife or one of his girlfriends. It wouldnt matter if Raymond said "Are these yours" or not. Dennis figured that Kathleen would either refuse to answer on principle, or else Raymond would doubt her denial in any event.

As far as I remember, Kathleen never said or did anything to indicate that they were her panties. She just acted surprised.



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Saw it yesterday, and she did indeed confirm it was hers (or perhaps she just believed it was). She said something like "why are you throwing my panties on me?". I certainly wondered the same thing as you people. I guess Peck was just a tooootal psycho.

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Peck did break into the Avila's apartment to steal Kathleen's panties. He's known to do that- break into people's apartments- as in the last scene when he breaks in (again) and waits for Kathleen to come home and surprises her on hers and Raymond's bed.

Basically it was Peck was messing with Raymond Avilla's mind the whole time, which he succeeded in doing so...

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That's the only part of htis fantastic film that isn't as clear as it should be. Garcia's character should be able to confirm if she was wearing panties in the restaurant (he tried, and she tried to stop him, but given his anger he wouldn't have any of that and reach deep- he slapped her seconds later, so he might as well have checked to make 100% sure). If not then, definitely went they went back home. Very frustrating that we'll never know!!

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The film IS clear. The panties are immaterial because its obvious that Kathleen did not sleep with Peck. The great thing about this movie is that its very subtle and you have to see how the characters interact with one another to pick up the little hints clues. Its not spoon fed. And if you pay attention, it should be obvious that Kathleen and Peck did not sleep with each other. He slept with every other woman in the movie but Mrs. Avilar and Ray's partner, lol

Its quite obvious that Kathleen and Raymond are literally crazy over each other( and extremely jealous over one another). Raymond shows his jealousy early in the film after he asks Kathleen why she had to kiss everyone at the party. Kathleen shows her jealousy when Raymond tells her he has a female partner and she reacts with "let's go to bed", and then later on the film she accuses him of sleeping with the partner b/c he hasn't been sleeping with her.

The true genius of the movie is Peck's ability to read people and know what their situations are. Knowing that a guy like Raymond so single minded and focused on his job probably would be neglecting his wife a little bit. And then using that knowledge to get Kathleen to go to lunch with him to discuss Raymond's "mental state". That ploy would not have worked if Peck misreads the situation, but master manipulator that he is ( he 'pushes the buttons', as he says in the film), he knows Kathleen, given the current state of their marriage and her husband's obsession with his current case, will believe him. Think about it, if Ray and Kathleen are fine at home she is more apt to be suspicious and would mention something to Ray, but things weren't so she didn't. Or at least she was going to bring it up at home before Ray confronted her in the restaurant.

The reality is that Peck knows Ray's weak spot is his wife. His knows he can rock Ray's whole world by suggesting his wife is cheating. Who knows, maybe he could have gotten Ray so worked up that he shoots the wife, and if he shoots the wife, he cant be investigating Peck, right? And even if things don't get taken to that extreme, the message from Peck is clear "back off and leave me alone or I will mess with your home life". He pretty much says so when he tells Raymond" you know the problem with Latin fighters? Too macho. Wont back peddle, when you have to. So they get used up young". He is telling Ray BACK OFF.


Anyway, knowing Ray's weak spot is his wife and knowing Ray is tailing him, he masterfully sets Ray up to 'catch' his wife having lunch with him. Kathleen meanwhile, because of Peck, is under the impression that her husband may be cracking up a little, which is why she doesn't want to discuss her lunch with Peck in public. Also, she in turn is set up by Peck to look guilty to Ray because he asked her not to mention their conversation to Ray, knowing that ray can see them having lunch and is sure to confront kathleen later and knowing that her denial of their conversation will make her look even more guilty to Ray. Its a huge case of comedy of errors, except there was nothing funny to either Ray or Kathleen.

The only problem with the gambit for Peck is that its too easily cleared up. Or maybe he was banking on Ray being so crazed with jealousy that he would not believe Kathleen no matter what she said in protest. Unfortunately for Peck, this was not the case as Kathleen cleared that up when she said "look..this is gonna stop, its not gonna continue. I'm not $%^&*ing anybody else. If I was I wouldn't be with you." Which sort of mirrors what she said earlier in the film when she accused Ray of sleeping with the partner : "if you are fooling around let me know so we can separate and each do what we want to do" So, given Kathleen's characterization up to that point, I think we can take what she says at face value. That and given the intensity of the 'reconciliation scene' between her and Raymond, I definitely take her at face value.

"[it]There isn't a jury in the world that would convict a baby....well, maybe Texas [/i]"- [bones]

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I think you got it. Peck broke in and took the panties. He throws them at Avila to "clean himself up". Avila is so obsessed with Kathleen that he can't get his mind off what he thinks happened, and he can't consider that Peck broke in. He has his "A-ha" moment at the hospital waiting for word on Wallace, realizes Peck broke in to get the panties and races home for the final confrontation.

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Yeah, Peck had broken in Avila's house, Peck even remarked to Ray that he was so easy to rile up and get to. Peck & Kathleen didn't have anything going on but Peck knew that Ray would be watching them so he decided to have fun and make him think that his wife was having an affair with him.

"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna `*beep*` wit' me!" Hudson in Aliens.

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2+ years later but...100% on the money in my view on all your points and analysis. Well-done Anaisnine, far better than I could have written.

I never get tired of this film for all the [subtle] reasons you mention :)
--
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

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"Saw it yesterday, and she did indeed confirm it was hers (or perhaps she just believed it was). She said something like "why are you throwing my panties on me?"."

Just watched the scene again and she doesn't say that, she just looks at them surprised.

She didn't sleep with him.

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[deleted]

There really is no question. Gere has an extensive panty collection. He stores it in the second drawer, next to the gerbils.


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Okay, so I know it seems like Gere just stole the panties, and I want to think that too. But she was so weird acting with Gere in the last scene as well.... before she knew Garcia was there. She was so calm like.... what are you doing here, this time? She kinda acted like she wanted him.

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I'm with you about the lingering ambiguity -- just like whether Amy lives or dies, we'll never really know about Kathy and Dennis. I want to believe when she and Raymond have their shouting match/makeup scene, however, that she was telling the truth - "If I was *beep* anybody else, I wouldn't be with you!"

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My sentiments exactly. I hope she was telling the truth as well. I just don't understand why Garcia didn't just say "how the hell did he get your panties then?", hell, maybe that was the point..... that it did happen and he was just in denial. Maybe that's reaching though.

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[deleted]

lol, dude I'm totally gonna go with coked up late 80's film making lol

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Umm...maybe she was weird with Gere's character because...

a) she already knows that her husband is investigating him and he is dangerous

b) he broke in her house

c) he has a gun

d) he is bleeding

Yeah.,..I would probably be nervous and 'weird' given that scenario, lol.

"There isn't a jury in the world that would convict a baby...well, maybe Texas "-

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Exactly - in context, she is trying to keep him calm out of a sense of self-preservation. They talked before at the restaurant, and she doesn't know how much Peck thinks she knows, so she's playing it cool.


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clean yourself up!!!

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When he comes home the day after the restaurant scene, she argues with him and then he tells her that he saw them. But, she doesn't know that he lost them, and she is saying, "You saw us....why didn't you stop it...why didn't you stop it!", him thinking that she was speaking of the lunch meeting.


So I assume that Peck raped her or he just made her remove her undergarments to give to him.

Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...

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