Connery and his crew were traitors - The Hunt for Red October (1990) Discussion

[–] JasonJD48 10 years ago

The US wasn't interested in first-strike, just deterrence. Historically, neither was the USSR, but for drama sake we needed to have a USSR willing to build a first strike weapon like Red October.

Were they traitors? yes they were. But so was George Washington.

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[–] CGSailor 10 years ago

Don't waste your breath.
The OP didn't give a damn about the films plot.
Rather, he is a loony Liberal Anti-American, Anti-Military nutjob existing on inhaling Unicorn farts.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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[–] Low_Rent 10 years ago

Unicorn farts are rare indeed.

"Kiss my Converse!" -Sho'nuff: The Shogun of Harlem.

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[–] JasonJD48 10 years ago

Isn't that what was keeping Voldemort alive in Philosopher's Stone?

"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty."

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[–] Low_Rent 9 years ago

You know I think you are right. I know the books and movie said that it was Unicorn Blood but since Voldemort is evil it makes more sense for it to be Unicorn Farts.

Kiss my Converse! - Sho'nuff: The Shogun of Harlem.

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[–] easyrhino 10 years ago

You don't like what I write so instead of trying to refute my post you attack me personally by writing a bunch of nonsense that you simply made up?

Try breaking the next Prozac in half.

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[–] graham-167 10 years ago

The US wasn't interested in first-strike, just deterrence.

Yeah, actually they were. Not saying they intended to launch one, but the Ohio/D-5 combination is a pretty potent first strike weapon.

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[–] CGSailor 9 years ago

Yeah, actually they were. Not saying they intended to launch one, but the Ohio/D-5 combination is a pretty potent first strike weapon.

While technically correct in your statement that Ohio's make a pretty potent first strike weapon... like Ryan, your conclusion is all wrong however.

Just because my Glock for home defense would also make a pretty good murder weapons does not mean that is my purpose in purchasing it.

Yes... The Ohio's do make good first strike weapons. But not only was that not the US intent... it was never the reasoning behind the Ohio class to begin with. Rather it was so that in the event of any Enemy first strike, there would always be enough survivable counterforce to make such a hostile first strike pointless. You could say their intent was for a LAST strike. Always.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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[–] sommert-507-32566 10 years ago

Well, apparently the majority of his countrymen had as little faith in the USSR government as he did since they overthrew it. I still don't hear people complaining about how much more awful the world is since the warm and cuddly USSR isn't around to save the day and make the world a better place.

Besides, it's not the 'lunatics' in the DOD that you need to worry about, it's the idiots actually running the country that should make you uneasy, though I have a feeling right now you're the opposite of worried, despite the fact you probably ought to be.

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[–] CGSailor 9 years ago

though I have a feeling right now you're the opposite of worried, despite the fact you probably ought to be.

Yeah, liberals tend to get the important crap completely bass backwards.

1) Hate the Military though it most often tends to be Democratic leaders that get us into Military messes.

2) Coddle criminals yet blame lawful gun owners for mass shootings

3) Stand with criminals like Michael Brown and "Black lives matter" yet don't blink an eye over the industrialized mass murder of millions of black babies via planned parenthood.

and so on... and so on...

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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[–] bannor216 10 years ago

They weren't traitors. They were defectors. BIG big difference there. Big.

"Just something from a film I like."

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[–] garrisonaw 10 years ago

Not really a big difference at all.

Defection, until completed and successful, is an act of treason. If a defector is caught before he succeeds, he is generally treated as a traitor. Once they have successfully defected, they have in effect declared allegiance to a new country, and their former country can't do much about it, apart from preventing their ever being able to return.

A defector is different from an emigrant, first in that he is leaving one country for an opposing country, not merely a different one; and second in that he usually possesses knowledge or information that can be used in some way by his newly chosen country against his former one. If that information is sensitive or vital enough, he may still be sought as a traitor even after successfully defecting. Given Ramius' high level in the Soviet Navy, and his knowledge of their naval technology and personnel, it would not have been a surprise if he had been sought by the Russians even after making it into the US.

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[–] Zero_Wolf 9 years ago

Yes, they were traitors.

If you think of it in terms of MAD, then sure, giving caterpillar technology to the other side would actually make the world a safer place.

MAD kept the USSR and USA from attacking each other. The Red October upset the balance of MAD, allowing one side to launch an attack that stood a decent chance of allowing that side to win.

Scenario 1 = MAD means: no one wins, so we won't attack.

Scenario 2 = Upsetting MAD means: we might win, so maybe we will attack.

Scenario 2 is demonstrably less stable than Scenario 1.

____________________________
Death is the road to awe.

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