Adm. William F. Halsey

Would you like to do it for me and tell me what you can find out?

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Hi

I dont live in a *beep* country. I live in Vienna and I am proud to tell you, it is the most livible city in the world :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercer_Quality_of_Living_Survey

I dont think that I have to apologize for not knowing who William THE BULL Halsey is. I am austrian, I dont like to put the shrimp on the barbie. Christopher Waltz and Arnold Schwarzenegger are from Austria. Austria is in Europe.

I would say, more than 90% of the people here in Austria dont know who Admiral Halsey is. Hell, I am pretty sure no one ever mentioned him and I never had an discussion about him and what he did. I am not familiar with the naval history of the USA. The only admirals I know are Admiral Nelson and Admiral Ackbar.

So please tell me more about this guy

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What an incredibly rude response to a simple question. You take arrogance to an impressive level and you really should consider medication. By the way, I am an educated man and I had never heard of Halsey. Maybe I did at some point in my life but I did not recognize the name.

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I agree with you almost completely; asking who Halsey was instead of looking him up is lazy, there is an extensive wikipedia article about him only one google search away.

But here I disagree:

If you are of High school age or above, and have lived in the USA, Britain, Japan, or any Major westernized modern society with a credible education system... there is absolutely NO EXCUSE in not knowing who he is other than pure stupidity.

In any country but the USA and maybe Japan, Halsey and most of the other Generals and Admirals of the Pacific theater are almost completely unknown. At American Highschools you learn quite a bit about American History so an American student might learn at least somethings about Halsey, but can you also name a French General of the Napoleonic era? Or an Austrian General from World War 1? Probably not.

I am German and our history education at school should be quite similar to Austrian history lessons. The German history curriculum at Gymnasium (which is the school form we visit from 5th to 12th grade) starts with the pre-historic history, the European stone age and the bronze age, goes to Babylon, ancient Egypt, ancient Persia and then - after two years the first European history: ancient Minoan culture from Crete and ultimately the ancient Greece history where you will learn about the different polis (city-states like Sparta, Thebes, Athens) and how they differed, accustomed by a little Greece philosophy and the wars of Greece against Persia which is considered the true beginning of European history. Then, by approx. 7th grade it will jump to the Romans who conquered most of Europe, brought a lot of culture to central and northern Europe, roads, currency, scripture. The we have the founding of East-Rome, Constantinople, the demise of West-Rome (the actual Rome in Italy) during the Migration Era, the European early middle ages with Charlemagne whose heirs divided his empire into what was about to become Germany and France later, high and late medival era with crusades, British War of the Roses, British-French Hundred Years’ War, Protestant Reformation under Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Thirty Years’ War about religion and domination, French revolution will take another LARGE part of the German curriculum, the American revolution will find a little space, too, the Napoleonic era which laid waste to the entire continent once again, the Revolutions of 1848 in almost all European countries to create first democratic structures and to abolish feudalism, the French-German war from 1870/71 which resulted in the first unified Germany (until 1871 there was not one Germany but dozens of German states like Prussia, Austria, Hessia, Saxonia, etc.), secret diplomacy and alliance systems that ultimately lead to World War 1, World War 1, Treaty of Versailles, First German Republic (the Weimar Republic) and its failures in checks and balances which allowed the Nazi Party to gain power, pre-war Nazi Germany including society, political system, racial laws, military build-up, Nazi Germany in World War 2, initial success, war crimes, holocaust, demise.
And when we are done with the history Nazi Germany, we are running out of time.

We actually are not taught military history. German history is almost exclusively social history. We learn of the U-Boat battle in the north Atlantic and the battle of Britain and the Attack on Pearl Harbor and the battle of Stalingrad and the Battle of the Bulge, but that is more or less it. We know the names and years of those battles but we are not taught how the battles were faught or who the officers were; we learn that the Bulge was the last uprising of the practically beaten Germany and that is more or less all we learn. Why? Because German history teaching is aimed at making people understand why things happened the way they did and what we have to learn to not have them happen again; the ‘details’ are not really that important in that philosophy. It is important to know that the wage of war turned at Stalingrad, it is not important to know that the German commander was General Field Marshal Paulus.

So I am sad to tell you: Nobody in Germany knows names like Halsey or Yamato and Nimitz is only known because we know that you have a really big ship named after him. Everybody knows Eisenhower but practically no one knows Bradley. And battles in the Pacific like Iwo Jima or Okinawa are unknown, too. Understanding them might be relevant for military historians but we do not educate people to become military historians at school.

I know quite a lot of military history throughout the world because I am personally interested in it, but that is only me. A good friend of mine is a history teacher at a public school and should he know the names Bradley and Patton, then only because he had watched the movie with George C. Scott; not because he learned so at school or later university. But do not think for a second that you would outwit him at any political or social development that happened in Europe since the year 750 BC.

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Any reason why you are screaming your reply at everyone?

Your SHOUTING AT EVERYONE DOES NOT MAKE YOU MORE RIGHT.
And in fact much of your statement is wrong.


Yes, Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors is an excellent book.
But not about Halsey, especially not about Halsey and the typhoons.
It only touches upon Halsey and his actions during the Battle Off Samar and the Battle of Cape Engano. As much as is necessary to explain the setup and reasons for the battle Off Samar, which is what the book exclusively focuses on.


As far as the Typhoons goes... Trying to blame Halsey for that is stupid.

Halsey did not know of the powerful Typhoons and how bad they were in advance and say, "Frak it, lets go in anyways".

Meteorology and weather and storm forecasting was in it's infancy back then.
We did not have satellites, computer networked weather stations, and computer forecasting models.

They were not too far removed from a time when the best weather forecasting for ships at sea was little more than rule of thumb taken from ancient rhymes...

Red sky at night, sailors' delight.
Red sky at morning, sailors take warning

What they DID have is what local weather conditions could be measured at their location by their weatherman, and occasionally weather reports from other far flung locations.

But what was happening out on the vast openness of the Pacific Ocean... was anyone's guess but for the ships to actually sail into such waters.

Typhoon Cobra took everyone by surprise. By the time they even knew there was a storm of any sort ahead, they were within hours, maybe a day of encountering it. By the time they realized the full power and strength of the SuperTyphoon... it was too late.
Halsey cannot be blamed for that.



I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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Can you name all 50 US states? You should, since without the US you'd be speaking German.

What you are apparently too stupid to understand is that the OP typed out Halsey's name into a movie chat board, when he could have just as easily typed it into Google and gotten his answer.

If he still didn't understand then ask. But, the OP was just a lazy azzhole. That's why he got so sh!t, and deservedly so.

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Why the fook would European countries learn in high schools about USA WWII Admirals?

Well, I guess you Europeans aren't as well educated as you think you are (must be all that socialism).

When I was in school, we learned of Rommel, de Gaulle, Yamomoto, Zhukov, Montgomery, etc. all contemporaries of Halsey. We also learned of the pharaohs, caesars, Khan, Alexander, Napoleon, Hanibal, Alexander, etc..

Retarded Americans

Maybe, but you'll fall to the Islamist before we do...

Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum. Is very bad.

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It's a while since I saw this, but based on what I recall and the details of the conversation posted above, I would say it's more about Ramius's character than any specific comment on Halsey actions.

By claiming to have read the book, he's saying Ryan's important enough to have made his notice, but that he merely an academic and that Ramius knows better based on his experience as a navy officer.

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You have the basic gist of it correct but you are wrong a lot in the details.

but I am pretty damn sure he ordered his big gun naval ships to attack what he thought was the main Japanese carrier fleet(what was left of it) during the battle of Leyte Gulf in the Philippines

While Halsey did have a number of Cruisers and Battleships with his force. It was NOT just the Big Guns he ordered to attack. Those big guns was there primarily as a protecting force for his Carriers. It was his Carriers of Halsey's 3rd Fleet that were going to attack Admiral Ozawa's Northern Force.

not realizing that Japanese force was a decoy made of ships that appeared to be aircraft carriers.

They WERE the Japanese Carriers. Not just decoys disguised to look like carriers. Yes the Japanese were using them as a decoy force but Halsey, Nor anyone else had any way of knowing the carriers were without aircraft and pilots. As far as the US Navy was concerned, Ozawa's Northern Force was a sizable and credible threat.

It was not a mistake on Halsey's part in falling for what turned out in HINDSIGHT to be a decoy force.

While that occurred, another Japanese force of destroyers and or cruisers was sent to attack the naval landing ships, carrying the troops that were to land on Luzon.

That other force was Admiral Kurita's Center Force. And it was one of the largest concentrations of Imperial Naval firepower ever assembled, not just an assemblage of some destroyers or cruisers.

4 Battleships
6 Heavy Cruisers
2 Light Cruisers
11 Destroyers

Admiral Halsey had the previous day, atracked the Center Force Sinking one of the other Battleships (Musashi), damaging Yamato, and several other vessels.
When Halsey took off after the Northern Force, Center Force was in retreat.

apparently the "Taffy something" force of landing ships and escort destroyers held their ground, and fought tooth and nail against the Japanese force, prompting an order to withdrawal, by the Japanese commander, which, if I can remember correctly, was not very popular(don't quote me on that).

Task Force Taffy 3.
There were no Landing Ships with Taffy 3. Taffy 3 was not the landing force. They were the northern most group of three task forces, each centered around a handful of small escort carriers, not full sized fleet carriers, and protected by a mere handful of of destroyers and destroyer escorts. Their job was to provide air to ground assistance to the landing troops.


The battle itself, known as The Battle Off Samar... was one heroic standoff that was quite literally the US Navy's Finest Hour.

3 destroyers and a little escort destroyer literally charged straight at the Japanese group I listed above. Just one of those Japanese Battleships, The Yamato, weighed as much in tonnage as all 13 American ships, including all 6 of the carriers. Just one of her Main Gun turrets weighed as much as the American Destroyer charging them. Not one of the American vessels had a gun large enough to penetrate the armor on the behemoths bearing down on them.

The Battle can be read about in great detail in James Hornfischer's book: Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors.

And don't worry... you can be quoted on it.
Kurita, Made a mistake in judging the tactical situation and decided to retreat.
In the victory or death mindset on Imperial Japan, it was a great shame which was levied at him for the remainder of his life.

The mistake was Halsey going for the decoy, and leaving his landing force exposed.

This is where you are completely wrong.

First off... It was not his landing force.

1) Taffy 3 was not the landing force. Taffy 1, 2, and 3 were stationed outside of Leyte Gulf in support of that landing force, their aircraft were armed with weapons suitable to providing support for ground troops and carrying out anti-submarine patrols.

2) Neither the Taffy Task Forces, or the landing forces belonged to Halsey nor were they in his chain of command at all. Halsey commanded the 3rd Fleet. He reported to his Superior, Admiral Nimitz at Pearl Harbor.

The Taffies and the Landing force were a part of the 7th Fleet, under the command of Admiral Kincaid. Kincaid reported to his superior, General Douglas MacArthur.

3) Halsey's 3rd Fleet while austensibly guarding rhe northern approaches to Leyte... ultimate responsibility for security lay with Kincaid and his 7th Fleet.

Kincaid had just that night before, decimated Japan's Southern Force as it tried to come through the Surigao Strait.

Halsey's orders were to assist Kincaid and to take a blocking position to the North. This he did and he attacked the Center Force as they were in the Sibuyan Sea making their way to the San Bernadino Strait. Center Force retreated.

However... Admiral Nimitz wrote an addendum to Halseys orders. It stated that if Halsey were to come across a significant portion of the Japanese fleet, That its destruction would then become his primary duty. Not guarding 7th fleet.

When Ozawa's Northern Force showed up... This is exactly what Halsey had. Halsey's orders allowed for his departing and going north after the decoy force.

Going after the Carriers and leaving 7th fleet unguarded was not his mistake.


The mistake, which was shared by Halsey, Kincaid, Nimitz, and many others including thier aides... is something else entirely.

Halsey had made provision to break off a part of his Battleship firepower forming a small group under the command of Admiral Lee, called Task Force 34. His intention was to leave TF34 behind guarding the San Bernadino Strait if he needed to be called away elsewhere. He sent a preparatory message detailing how TF 34 was to form if and when he directed them to do so.

Kincaid, not in the chain of command was still copying the messages so as to be aware of what Halsey was doing. Official communications had to go from Halsey to Nimitz at Pearl. To MacArthur and then to Kincaid. Halsey and Kincaid were close enough though that each was copying each others message traffic directly

When Halsey spotted Ozawa, Kurita was in retreat. Halsey felt no need to leave Lee and TF 34 behind and so took his entire force with him. No action message was ever sent instructing Lee to form TF 34.

Kincaid however, ASSUMED the previous preparatory message was an action message forming TF34. When Halsey tore ass northwards in persuit of Ozawa he thought Lee was remaining behind guarding his northern flank. He wasn't. Lee was still with Halsey.

Unknownst to Halsey himself, though reports did reach his staff, Kurita had turned around in his retreat and made again for San Bernadino Strait.

Dawn found Kurita exiting the Strait just off Samar Island, Halsey far to the north and out of position, Taffy 3 blissfully unaware....

Initial dawn reports of large warships to the north were mistaken by Taffy 3 as being Halsey's battleships. Then someone screamed out that they were pagoda masts, a unique characteristic of Japanese heavy warships.

The ships were over 20 miles away, far on the horizon. and 200' high towering geysers of water... shell splashes from the monstrous warships started erupting all around.

The Japanese were already within range.

The mistake was not in Halsey chasing after Ozawa. It was in his not forming TF 34 and leaving Lee behind.


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

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