It is not a question, it is a fact: "Bullet in the Head" ist John Woo's best. But what do you think is his worst?
My Top List:
1. Bullet
2. The Killer
3. A better tomorrow
4. Hard Boiled
5. Face/Off
And the worst? Forgive me, I do not think "Paycheck" is as terrible as the most people say. Nice popcorn cinema even with its logical mistakes. But I hate that terrible "Mission Impossible".
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Wow I just got around to seeing Bullet in the Head, the last Woo film I haven't seen. I have to say it was definitely the most emotion and by far had the best storyline of any of his films. My top list is:
1. Hard Boiled
2. BITH
3. The Killer
4. A Better Tomorrow
5. Face/Off
Worst: I hate Tom Cruise, so I will agree, MI2, but Blackjack is VERY close, if not tied.
I think my list would be:
1. A Better Tomorrow I/II (As one movie)
2. The Killer
3. Hard Boiled
4. Bullet In The Head
5. Paycheck (I actually really like that movie.)
Worst has to be Broken Arrow...except for the opening boxing sequence and one very short gun fight in the caves, this movie could have been ghost directed by anyone else. Just does not have the John Woo stamp on it.
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"I'll handle them."
1. Bullet
2. Hard-Boiled
3. The Killer
4. A Better Tomorrow II
5. Face/off
Worst: Broken Arrow
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I reeeeeeaaaally disliked Windtalkers and therefor never even bothered to watch MI2 and Paycheck. But I guess his worst film ought to be among the stuff he did before he made A Better Tomorrow... even Woo himself hates those annoying comedies he made back then...
shareOnce A Thief, now that one was really terrible!
Interesting, once he deviates from the trademark that he follows from one movie to another because it made him famous, everyone of you idiots believes it's not one of his best. I don't think that's the mark of a great director, which he is not of course, when he's constantly using one style over and over. He's basically maiking one type of a film. His comedies are proof that he couldn't handle successfuly any other genre than action. Give me Ronny Yu or Tsui Hark over any John Woo shallow transparent trademark.
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I agree and john woo is a complete legend, and bullet is such a powerful brilliant movie. really is, i watched it awhile back when it was suprisingly on itv4
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"You think you know so much about John Woo (or every HK filmmaker in general) but in fact you don't know *beep*, LOL! Woo has done different movies (MA, comedies, swordplay, drama, war) and yes, he only had great success with comedy and action but that doesn't mean he sucks in handling other genres. The problem with that though is that Woo often got to do movies he didn't want to make but had to in order to survive in the film industry as he never got too many chances to do what he wanted. After he got famous for doing A Better Tomorrow, again, he didn't want to get stuck in the gangster/action genre as he wanted to make other kinds of movies but he just had to because he convinced himself that it was the only way to make big bucks so he trusted his instinct and used this style over and over."
If i were as ignorant like you i'd have a wonderful life, especially if they paid me for that. Because the ignorance is a bliss, but then again, the knowledge is a power. This style you're talking about he's using to this day, not just around the societal trend in the late 80's, early 90's. He got type-casted by his own trademark style at his will, which is the reason so many people today are tired of him by now, because he's trying to do the same things over and over again. If he followed many varous trends along the years he'd have a lot more respect by now. But he wanted to trust his own instincts, but the real glitch in this senario is that his instincts were wrong and he paid for that.
"so in other words Hark wouldn't have had a great career if it wasn't for Woo. That should teach you something."
My God. You're full of s hit, better buck up on your knowledge about HK cinema because with this remark you have only made yourself look like a clown on this thread. Hark's career didn't start with Cinema City but with his own company, every little kid should know this. But on the other hand it's Hark who gave Woo big successful break in A Better Tomorrow which he's the most famous for to date. Whereas Hark achived numerous successful peaks over the years that he's famous for, not just one. God, i'm not even Hark's fan and i know this. What the hell you know in general really makes one wonder. This should teach you something, poor smartass.
:) I found this discussion *most* interesting and entertaining to read, given John Woo threads I have numbed and dumbed my brain over in the recent years.
I truly can't believe I've been wasting my time back then arguing the same bullsh!t points and comments that many previous people have already completely denounced and justly ridiculed. Good on you "jjoplin"! Woo (along with Ringo Lam and Johnny To) would be nobody without T.Hark.
This pack of John Woo love-hounds really should shack up and move on!
Thank you. Some people really have no idea what they're talking about, especially John Woo's followers who i believe must be definitely the most ignorant posters in the IMDb history. It's unbelievable. Seriously, moviegeek, wouldn't you feel personally embarrassed by that second remark of his i quoted in my comment?! It's not even funny, that moron must have started watching HK films yesterday. Bum.
shareNo argument there, mate. I know for sure that i would've certainly never dared to write such nonsense either. As far as i know T.Hark's Dangerous Encounter didn't even bomb, back then he had built already tremendous reputation as he was the leader of the new-wave league. He had a lot of choices after he left Ng See-Yuen, and one of them was Zu-Warriors and then Shanghai Blues, none of them were part of Karl Maka's productions. He got up there on his own.
shareExactly. Which leads to the problem that John Woo has now, he was depending on a lot more talented people around him for many years, either actors, producers or companies, as an independent filmmaker he would have no chance today. And as we could've witnessed recently he's gotten on the bottom of his career because he had no one around him who would help him out, that's why he's doing this war film in China, and guess who's gonna star, Chow Yun Fat. Lol. Who else. I believe without him and Tsui Hark his career would be crap. He's a clown, nothing more.
shareWow, very good point. Don't forget that Bullet In The Head was no domestic success either - no Chow Y. Fat and T.Hark?! Very much possible. It perfectly makes sense! Just imagine where he would be now if he never worked for them or never went to Hollywood.
shareJust imagine where he would be now if he never worked for them or never went to Hollywood
He would have quite possibly never survived in HK Cinema so one way or another he would end up in Hollywood anyway. So he would be hated like now from the first day he released his first American movie. His career in Hong Kong was very short when you think about that. If i remember correctly he was already looking for the job in Taiwan or somewhere around there before he would try his hand on A Better Tomorrow.
Good lord, this thread starts to make me feel sick to my stomach!!!
JJoplin, you ARE a moron, you have NO life and most of all: you don't have any F UCKING idea of either John Woo's or Tsui Hark's carreer. I'm not even willing to start a discussion with a dumbass like you. As to "so in other words Hark wouldn't have had a great career if it wasn't for Woo"... I've discussed this matter with another guy on the thread JOHN WOO which can be found on the TSUI HARK message board. That SHOULD teach you something...
Just do us all a favour and STOP PRETENDING THAT YOU KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL ABOUT HONG KONG CINEMA.
And to the dog on JJoplin's leash, moviegeek4:
Dangerous Encounter bombed if anything ever did!
IMDB is so full of ignorant idiots it makes me wanna puke!!!
Get a life!
Thank you very much.
JJoplin should write a book for those who are interested in his opinion. With that moviegeek4 he would have a reader.
Real fans know what Woo can do. And we know his weakness. Let us see what the future will bring. But you cannot criticize a genre-diretor for genre movies.
Perhaps Woo will never give us another masterflick. (Even if his segment in "All the invisible children" is wonderful. And a proof that Woo CAN handle other themes.)
Don't know what's going on in the heads of those "We are the real specialists of HK-cinema". Woo was the action god for some years. Or why did nearly every young action director wanted to copy his style? And failed?
what is up with all the Woo bashing!? Back in the early 90s, Woo's films were a breath of fresh air. How anyone can call Woo a hack is beyond me. One things for sure, when I have children and they are at the right age to watch violent action flicks, I know I'll be showing them THE KILLER, HARD BOILED, and A BETTER TOMORROW before I show them any of hollywood's action films.
shareJJOPLIN. What is wrong with woo being a director that specializes in one field of ilm making that he excells at, its called trademark. and too call it shallow is complete *beep* its over 2 hours long and has many diffrent sequences which are uniquely filmed and shows the story of the friendship in a unique way, and how is this film transparent?
Did you see the scene where they were tied up an told to shoot each other coming? Did you see the shocking ending like that coming? I dont think so.
ITS ALWAYS BETTER TO BE A GREAT JACK OF ONE TRADE THAN A JACK OF ALL TRADES AND FAIL.
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In any case, John Woo handles action sequences better than almost any other director alive. I'm not entirely sure how good of a director he actually is (his films vary hugely in quality, and his best works still have some odd flaws) overall, but for his gun battles in his Hong Kong work alone I'll be a lifelong fan.
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Well, Woo does tend to be a tad indulgent and excessive. As example, after he made "Red Cliff" there had to be a shortage of fire in the world for at least six months.
Best of Woo
1. The Killer
2. Hard boiled
3. Bullet in the head
4. Hard Target (vintage van damme)
5. A better tomorrow
OK, I finally saw this movie on DVD after all these years of John Woo fan-hood. But I can't say this is his best at all! I mean, it probably takes a bit of money to make with all the war scenes. But it lacks the stylish balleratic gun battles, and ultra cool leading man. Simon Yam had bit of this in him, but he's not even one of the main characters.
Its just me, but I can't put this one ahead of Killer, Hard Boil, ABT 1 & 2. And its not just a Chow Yun Fat thing. Woo always made Travolta and Nic Cage pretty cool. Heck he made even Tom Cruise look look like he could fight.
Here, we have 3 punks who remained punks pretty much throughout the movie. Sure, Waise Lee got rich at the end, but he wasn't nearly as engaging as he was as the antagonist in ABT 1. In fact, I might have to grade this one as Wu's worst among the HK Heroic Bloodshed genre.
Still Woo's worst isn't necessarily that bad, since his movies are the best of HK films. But again, my humble opinion.
I've got a couple of things to nag about. Like the car chase ending for example: I never really liked that ending. I wish the movie had just ended in the boardroom, or more appropriately in Vietnam. The car chase ending seemed tacked on and out of place. Other than that, the movie is actually very good. The script is much better written than most movies being made at the time. Good plot, very well made and well acted. IMO, its much more superior than Tsui Hark's A Better Tomorrow III.
"Because anything else would be uncivilized."
-Hulk Hogan, Right Guard commercial
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The movie only failed because Tsui Hark rushed his ABT III into theatres simply to sabotage Woo. It worked because ABT III was a more successful franchise and starred Chow Yun Fat; while BITH starred 3 TV actors who at the time weren't considered bankable.
"Because anything else would be uncivilized."
-Hulk Hogan, Right Guard commercial
@ Dangerous_Lee_Handsome
Well, there IS an alternate ending in the boardroom...
Yeah, I realize that, but I've never seen it. My old Tai Seng VHS had the car chase ending. (Actually, there's a confrontation in the boardroom and then the car chase begins.) But my VHS version is terribly cut. I'm waiting for my Joy Sales DVD to arrive so I can finally see all the extended footage everyone's been talking about.
"Because anything else would be uncivilized."
-Hulk Hogan, Right Guard commercial
The entire film is prolonged lunacy that goes on and on and on and on (etc.), so the ending should also be. The car "chase" at the end is perfectly fitting.
("Tacked on"? Everything in the film was tacked on -- including the part of the singer who is killed -- had to bring in some irrelevant female pulchritude for the juveniles.)
This is my favorite John Woo film as well - the most touching and emotional of all his films. Very well-acted, especially from Tony Leung and Jacky Cheung. Lacks the Chow Yun Fat kick-ass hero factor, but it doesn't really detract from the film. Very touching movie; made me look at my own friendships more closely.
Hard-Boiled comes pretty close, though. I love that movie...the best, most insane action movie EVARRRRR.
Worst....I really hated "MI:2" as well. The weird thing is that actually I'm a huge fan of Tom Cruise, but that was just a bad movie.
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Woo (along with Ringo Lam and Johnny To) would be nobody without T.Hark.
Should be:
Without Woo, Ringo Lam and Johnnie To, Tsui Hark's career has become utter crap. LOL!
"Because anything else would be uncivilized."
-Hulk Hogan, Right Guard commercial
That's my bests'chart:
1) A Better Tomorrow
2) A Better Tomorrow 2
3) Bullet In The Head
4) The Killer
5) Hard Boiled
The worst?
Mmh...All his hollywood movies? ^^
My 'Best Woo' list would be:
1-Bullet In the Head
2-Better Tomorrow
3-The Killer
4-Hard Boiled
5-Last Hurrah For Chivalry (much like an 'old school' era Better Tomorrow
Worst:
1-Blackjack (I refuse to believe this was actually directed by a human being)
2-To Hell With the Devil
Woo had made other films (Comedy, Martial arts, Drama, War, Sci-fi, Period peice etc.) and I like them, I do not understand why if he does not make an action film his movies become crap. They are good, I liked the last Hurrah, and I also liked Hand of Death among others.
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