MovieChat Forums > 3-4 x jûgatsu (1999) Discussion > General comments about film **SPOILERS...

General comments about film SPOILERS

posted 19 years ago by J01
12 replies | jump to latest

I recently bought the 'Beat' Takeshi DVD trilogy of Violent Cop, Boiling Point and Sonatine after enjoying his more mainstream films such as Kikujiro, Hana-bi and Zatoichi. All of his these seem refreshingly different from the typical hollywood stuff churned out these days. Its true that a lot of the films mentioned above are pretty slow moving and you could say not much happens, but this makes them more realistic, showing the more mundane and insignificant aspects of life in a way which is really quite engaging.

Boiling Point is a prime example of this, really pretty odd yet damn good. I really enjoyed it, and the ending? He thought the whole thing up while on the toilet? Crazy. If that is true, then I was wondering whether the character Takeshi Kitono plays is basically a figment of the main guy's imagination based on what how he wants to be himself (ie more tough, in control etc.) Takeshi's character in Boiling Point is a lot more objectionable than most of his other films, he seems more unreasonable and some of the things he does are quite disturbing. If the whole story is dreamt up by the gas station attendant, then the character traits he gives Takeshi's character could be based on some rather sick ideas he has himself. Kind of like an alter ego.

Anyone think the same?? And why has this film got so few discussion threads?

[–] fulhammark8 19 years ago

sorry no comments on boiling point right now it's been a very long time since i watched it. also i see that you have the beat takeshi dvd trilogy - i have this aswell, it's a good boxset but one disappointing thing on it was on violent cop some subtitles didn't show up - so quite a bit of the time i had no idea what was being said

did the same happen on yours?

[–] Ozpunk 19 years ago

Really good movie, and so are the other ones you mention from that trilogy. The playing on the beach scenes in Boiling Point reminded of Sonatine, that and Kitano blowing away a room ful of Yakuza with an M16, heh.

Kitano's character in this movie was a bit more frisky than in those other two movies, bit still similarly tragic in all of them. In just about every movie I've ever seen him in he ends up dying. In Boiling Point though, he seems to be a bit more aggressive and angry, like how he smacks his girlfriend for like 15 minutes of the film then screws her and ditches her on the side of the road. But dispite all his flaws, he was still an ultimately likable character, just with a dark sense of humor.

If the whole movie was merely a crapper day dream, then Masaki certainly has a overactive imagination. Him and Kitano are both at opposite ends of the spectrum, and perhaps it was intended that he was a more pugnacious and authoritative version of himself or some kind of projection of his own repressed ego. I don't think that Kitano's character was who Masaki wanted to become, he seemed more frightened of him than envious. I dunno what exactly the entire point of his dream was, except that maybe he needs a little excitement in his life?

Also the literal title of the Movie is "The 3rd and 4th of October", which I'm not entirely sure how ended up as Boiling Point, maybe thought it would sell more with a violent title and a gun on the cover. But perhaps it meant that the entirety of the day dream occurred over a 2 day period? I don't think thats right, seemed like more time passed than that.

Some of my favorite scenes in this movie were:
When Masaki and that girl are on his Motorcycle and being harassed by hooligans in their car and the resulting car crash that was quite unexpected and hilarious. Plus the poor guy who they hit sitting on the curb with a black eye after he yells at them.
Kitano in the field of tall flowers with his flowery crown on his head, very cool imagery.
Of course the bar scene where the poor woman gets cold-cocked with an ashtray to her cheek and the guys like if you don't like my stinky bathroom go piss outside, haha.
When they chop of Kitano's friend's finger, and the girlfriend has to hit the knife with a wooden block, funny stuff.
While theyre eating popcicles right before the gun deal, and Kitano is kicking his girlfriend in the leg, just his overall childish behavior towards her was very silly.

All in all, Boiling Point is another awesome Kitano movie, and an awesome blend of dark comedy and Yakuza violence.

.Ozpunk .
"No Murray its not a real hawk, just life-like hawk sounds."

[–] brontiustrex 18 years ago

Ozpunk, you dick.

You should have mentioned that you were about to spoil the other two movies in the box set.

I have not watched Violent Cop yet. And you have ruined it.

You are an amateur filmgoer, and a dick.

"I first became aware of it Mandrake, during the physical act of love."

[–] Leif_Erikson 18 years ago

I really don't think he dreamt the whole thing up while on the toilet, it's probably just a plot device to show the journey Masaki has made from being a peon working at a gas station to taking on the Yakuza practically single-handedly.

Oh brontiustrex, what in fecking crikey is an amateur filmgoer? as opposed to a full-blown professional filmgoer? if such a job exists how do I go about getting it?

[–] brontiustrex 18 years ago

I'll tell you what an 'amatuer filmgoer' is:

It is a term for a dick.

"I first became aware of it Mandrake, during the physical act of love."

[–] sonnywilliams 18 years ago

the ending is not meant to work on the "trick" level that, oh he dreamt it up, but is meant as a way to show the inability of this character, and many others, as Takeshi is saying, to act on their feelings, which may leave them as outsiders. there is a complex relationship of inside-outside-inner-outer in japan that is different than in other countries. the film needs to be seen in the context of the country it comes from. as much as he dreams and schemes, he can do nothing.

[–] palindromicevilolive 18 years ago

I tend to agree with com lag's interpretation of the ending scene. I thought it was put there to demonstrate how far the character had gone since that sleepy baseball game.

[–] EverVedder 18 years ago

The ending is not a dream. In the opening when you see him leave from the can he is slowly walking back to the game. As if he really did not want to be there. So he was taking his time. And at the end he is kind of running back, like he can’t wait to get back to the game. This shows how the events of the past two days had changed him.

[–] Leif_Erikson 18 years ago

It's been a while since I've seen the film, but your wording suggests that the game at the end of the film was a different one from the beginning.

I had always assumed it was the same game and the scene was just there, to once again establish how much Masaki's character had changed since the beginning of the film... but who knows? maybe Kitano thought up the film while sitting on the toilet and thought it would be an interesting little reference to throw into the film.

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ghiblimon 17 years ago

diggin up an old post here, but i thought that this film definitely deserves some more recognition for its subtle cinematic genius.

that being said, i read an interesting excerpt from Casio Abe's "beat takeshi vs. takeshi kitano" that i thought might help give some insight into the ambiguity of Boiling Point's ending. Abe disscusses the theme of baseball as "reality," elaborating that the players on the field are inherently bound by the game's rules of play. constrained by these "rules," the players are also forced to remain fully attentive during the game, whether or not they are involved in a particular play or not (i.e. the third baseman observes as the first batter hits a pop fly directed towards the catcher), and doing all this while resisting the "boredom" of one's position. consequently, Abe concludes, all that's been said to describe baseball can all be said to function as metaphors for reality. thus, baseball expresses that very reality that is full of "boredom" and immeasurably bound by "rules."

okay so i know that's alot to take in, but i believe Abe's interpretation of Boiling Point put the film into perspective, at least for me anyway, in my conclusion that Masaki was in fact just dreaming. as we can see during the baseball game, Masaki is clearly unaware of the game's inherent "rules," much less care about participating within those boundaries. regardless, Masaki's teammates do consider him as one of them, and assign him positions as third base coach and pinch hitter, to which he fails miserably at both jobs.

if baseball then is "reality," then Masaki doesn't consider himself to be a part of it. this is further established by the events in his "dream," where the implied "rules" of real life do not apply either; Masaki doesn't hesitate to physically retaliate against a yakuza who berates him at the gas station for not doing his job, Masaki not even second guessing himself when it comes to picking up on a waitress at the cafe, and Masaki taking part in an underground yakuza plot to overthrow the dominating clan. Kitano's character can even be said to be an extension of what Masaki dreams of becoming but could never come close to physically accomplishing.

there were just so many absurd moments in the film, especially with Kitano's character, that probably made it hard to believe for the audience to accept what they were seeing as "reality," so Kitano threw in the last scene to make the film feel more subjective than concrete. but i guess that's probably something only the director will ever know.

well, hope this helped shed some light.. ;]

[–] chriscoates 17 years ago

Boiling Point and Sonatine are my favourites. I've always seen them as companion films - felt that they belong together - because they have the same vibe.
Violent Cop was very much a film-makers' first film; it's about making big impressions, but it's not a very "deep" film. His follow-ups are more nuanced with Boiling Point and Sonatine both having a dreamlike and contemplative quality fused with raw emotion (like regret and depression) that really engages and is unlike anything else I've seen.

I hate to say it but I've found some of his later work dull. They're always well-made films but they often seem to be striving for a resonance and profundity that they just don't attain (Hana Bi being a good example).

He shook things up with Zatoichi, but I'm a fan of the orginals so I find it a bit of a strange watch (there's only one Zatoichi as far as I'm concerned and it's Katsu). It must sound like I'm really hard to please...

If I had to pick one it'd be Sonatine (Boiling Point a close second), but they're both beautiful films.

____________________________________________
...needless to say, I had the last laugh."

General comments about film **SPOILERS**

General comments about film SPOILERS