MovieChat Forums > Have I Got News for You (1990) Discussion > I think it misses Angus Deayton

I think it misses Angus Deayton

posted 17 years ago by nsullivan
34 replies | jump to latest

I've been a fan of HIGNFY for some years, and still watch it when it's on now, and it's still very funny. But I dug out the old 'Best of' DVD, and it struck me how much better it seemed when Angus was at the helm. It was just a generally funnier and better quality show.

I have to say, I was watching after the tabloid revelations about Angus, and that was a side-splitting episode, and it continued to be good when the guest presenters started. But the novelty of that is wearing thin for me, especially as many of the guests have done it several times, and none of them hold a torch to Deayton as a regular, every-week sort of host.

I think Ian was indifferent to him, whilst Paul seemed rather to despise him. Paul never found him amusing when he wasn't reading the autocue, and spends much of the DVD commentary bitching about him further. Both Ian and Paul wasted a lot of good material here actually, the Richard Bacon slot was hillarious, but all you heard was them bitch and bitch about Angus in the commentary. I think he deserved credit in many cases where it was not forthcoming; in the 194th episode, he turned up, he knew it would be coming (contrary to Ian's assertion in the commentary, he actually began the show by saying "this week's loser is... presenting it"), he admitted a lot of what was in the paper, and he took everything they threw at him squarely on the chin. Contrast that to Simon Hoggart on the News Quiz, for example, who after his affair with Kimberley Quinn was revealed, started the next show by sticking his family in the front row of the audience so it wouldn't be brought up by the guests.

I think in their poor treatment of Angus, much as Ian and especially Paul may not have liked him, they seem to miss the point that much of the audience did find Angus funny, and did like him. There was a sizeable body of opinion that he should be brought back as presenter after he was sacked - there was even an online petition at one stage. I think the fact he stayed in charge for as long as he did tells its own story, the show just worked so well when he was presenting.

So with this, what am I suggesting? Should Angus be brought back? No. It was painful watching someone I rather liked being torn to bits week after week, even if it was funny the first time, and his position really was untenable. Even if Ian and Paul could have been persuaded to shut up, the audience's reaction every time he made a bedroom joke would have told its own story. Plus Ian and Paul wouldn't have shut up anyway, and it would have been the same show week in and week out, and I can't imagine that Angus would want this much either. The point I'm trying to make is that there isn't really a solution now that he's gone, and the show will just never be quite as good again.

I wish he hadn't done what he did, I wish he hadn't got caught, and funny though it was at the time, I wish the 194th episode hadn't occurred, because the show would have benefitted so much more for his long-term presence on it than it does for his absence. For judging by the hosts they've had so far, and comparing it with the old days, whilst it remains a great show, it'll just never be quite as good as it was under the chairmanship of Angus Deayton.

[–] Johnny-1810 17 years ago

A superb post. And one that I concur with on every level.

The best thing possible for the show's producers to do now is to appoint another permanent host. But not just any old host, one that has the same sharp, spot on delivery that Angus had.

Step forward, Alexander Armstrong.

"If you shoot this man, you die next. Repeat. If you shoot this man, you die next."

[–] hippychic46 17 years ago

i agree with you, but i dont think there should be a permanent presenter

i couldnt decide between alexander armstrong or jeremy clarkson. i just couldnt

[–] wierzbowskisteedman 17 years ago

Alexander Armstrong is the only logical choice. There was been many brilliant presenters - like Clarkson - but he's the only one who can be effective, suitable and funny without being too much of a novelty act.

That said, I think if he's given a few more tries, Damien Lewis could fit the bill as well.

Drive George, drive! This one's got a coat hanger!

[–] Movie_Junkie91 17 years ago

The commentary on the DVD did sound slightly back-stabby, but I sort of got the feeling that Paul and Ian didn't really *hate* him, they just thought he was a daft twit for doing what he did, especially with his job as chairman of a popular piss-taking show. And if they didn't say much in the first place they would have got a bollocking from everyone for being hypocrites. It was entirey within their right to do what they did, as much as I like Angus, because it was the same as having a go at the Hamiltons or Kilroy or anyone from Labour. They shouldn't have to shut up, it's what they're there for.
There have been some good hosts, remember. I like how it changes every week; Anna Ford, Jeremy Clarkson, Lorraine Kelly and of course Boris spring to mind. We never would have had that if Angus hadn't gone.

It might not be Angus' sacking that has made the lose appeal. I was watching the DVD recently, and the whole feel of the show has changed. It's lost a spark. You don't get class moments now like you used in the old days, sadly.

But I do agree to a certain extent. Time for a permanent host. Alexander armstrong his more than capable at reading out loud, he's obscure enough for that to not be a problem, and seems to enjoy it. And we can still get the personalities we love on the show, just as contestants.

I am what I am and I do what I can.

[–] ATDI 15 years ago

It's astonishing to think that if Angus hadn't done what he did and get thrown off HIGNFY, Boris probably wouldn't be the Mayor of London.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (11305375) 13 years ago

While I agree it would have been hypocritical for both Paul and Ian to have ignored Angus on the show I really think the pair of them took the verbal assault on him too far. After a while it wasn't even funny, it came across as obnoxious not to say tiresome. It was just one barb after another and I still wonder to this very day if Paul more so than Ian would have been quite as hostile towards someone else had they done the same thing. I really don't think Paul was as objective on the matter given that he stated that he never really liked Angus even before the incident when he appeared as a guest on “Parkinson”. Paul clearly was the worse of the two during that onslaught and although I do like him, on that night and every other he came across as a bit of an-hole.

I still remember the moment where a woman who I believe, quite rightly after while in to the show told them to leave him alone. Of course Paul being as hell bent as he was to tar and feather Angus and being the quick witted individual was merciless and was able to shoot her down without barely a moments hesitation. This is the problem with some comics, sometimes I think they're too witty or even intelligent for their own good and need to be taken down a peg or two. Or at least made to realise when they're behaving like a tit and need to back off. In some ways watching that initial episode and the way Angus handled it all I think to an extent he didn't deserve to be roasted quite as badly as what he received.

[–] Ghosthunter123424 11 years ago

Completely agree with the Opening post and yours.

Paul Merton often seems dismissive or sneering when someone he seems to dislike cracks a joke and gets a laugh. I particularly remember thinking this when Eddie Izzard had a few spots on the show, first covering Pauls spot himself, and at least once opposite to Ian. Everything time he got a laugh from the audience Paul was visibily contorting with a grimace.

Regarding Deyton, he's the best host the show has ever had with Alexander Armstrong a good second. I find it particular displeasing knowing that he helped create a brand new panel show (would I lie to you) and steered it through two series only to be dropped after making a joke about Jimmy Saville.

[–] SukhiKay 17 years ago

I still watch the old ones on repeat and its blatantly clear how much Paul hated Angus - in some of the shows Merton seems bent on totally destroying Deaytons composure - it seems more than just a clash of egos - i may well be wrong but its as if somethings happened behind the scenes.
I see Angus as a kind of habitual charmer that makes a move on other blokes women - and wouldnt be shocked if that charm and smarmy flannel hadnt extended itself to his co-hosts partners.... [allegedly!]
The show definately misses the dynamic that all three brought about and Paul was much funnier when he had Angus to rile against...brought out the best in him.
I miss Angus and dont think i would want another permanent host [esp Armstrong who i find just a bit smug] until someone comes along that is clearly equal or better than Angus - and i dont think ive seen anyone yet that comes close

I Hear Deaf People....

[–] DBloodnok 17 years ago

I totally agree - Angus is sorely missed. Personally, I've stopped watching the show over the last two years or so. I find Ian and Paul so smug - it's THEIR show and whichever guest presenter is on has to tolerate their foibles and mugging-up. The series either should have had the gumption to stick with Angus (of course, that would have needed Ian and Paul to stand up and support him -which they did not do) or appoint a new presenter.

"Someone has been tampering with Hank's memories."

[–] dickyglk25 17 years ago

i totally agree. please check out my post to see solution to the problem

[–] boogles 17 years ago

I agree with you about the Simon Hoggart situation being similiar and effectively he still kept his job. Interestingly i posted that up on his page on IMDB. The show does miss Angus! Interestingly Ian said that he did like Angus. Paul I think had a problem with him.

[–] s1ashs-snakepit 17 years ago

Merton never laughed at the autocue jokes ever, so it wasn't like he was being spiteful or anything

[–] dark_media 17 years ago

I'd love to see Angus Deayton as a Guest Presenter.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] dave-1273 17 years ago

Totally agree with the posts that say it misses Angus. Strangely, it means more to me now than it did in 2002 when Angus was sacked. Then, I was pretty indifferent. Perhaps it’s a nostalgia thing. I recently bought the Very Best of…the Angus years and it’s true the guest presenters, where they are successful, are really aping Deayton whether deliberate or not. I don’t think it’s an accident that Clarkson/Armstrong are considered the best/most invited back as their delivery is very like Deayton’s.

I never really read too much into Paul’s on-screen jibes about Angus. Paul made jibes about everyone. In fact he was more acidic on several occasions about Hislop. He said, ‘I’d like to put my fist through that great face of yours’ and has also called him a balding short-arse. When Paul guested on Ian’s team he was quite curt about him, interrupting him. It is on the Very Best of…and you can see Hislop doesn’t know how to react. So before Angus was sacked and Paul came out with I think rather childish and very unprofessional barbs against him, I always got the impression that if (I emphasise IF) there was any tension at all it was between Paul and Ian, and Angus was the sort of mediator.

I also recall Paul saying in an interview during the Angus years that he (Paul) deliberately didn’t laugh while on-screen because he thought it looked funnier to the audience if he came out with saying funny things but never looked as if he found them funny himself. So I don’t think we can read his po-facedness as being anything necessarily anti-Angus.

Whatever accusations were made about Angus, they don’t hold under scrutiny. Smug? So is/was Ian Hislop. Unfaithful? So was Chris Tarrant who was a guest presenter (though I detected Ian Hislop thought so too during that episode, perhaps sensing a bit of hypocrisy on who was/wasn’t allowed to host). Reading the autocue is easy? Not if you look at Paul’s attempts at it – he was pathetic at it. So were so many others. Unlikeable? Several friends have stood by him, notably the likeable Stephen Fry, Johnathan Davies and Richard Curtis.

With hindsight and hearing what has been said about certain parties since the sacking, I now feel it was Paul who had the problem with Angus and Ian just fell in with it.

Catch Angus’ new show Would I Lie To You. Some great jokes in there. Only duff one was because of the presence of that cretin Tara Palmer Tomkinson. Nice to see some guest hosts of HIGNFY appear on WILTY so clearly they had no problems with Angus either.

Don't get me wrong I do like some of the guest presenters - there have been some great moments. But the other day while watching a Jeremy Clarkson-hosted episode it just came across as a cosy little quiz, with Paul laughing at Clarkson's jokes. It has lost its edge, its greatness.

[–] dave-1273 17 years ago

Further to my own message, I think at the time the BBC should have done what any employers outside TV would have done - give the product a rest i.e. don't do a series for a year or so, and tell the main three that even if they don't get on, make do for the sake of the programme. What matters is the viewing public being entertained. I've been in many jobs with people I dislike or hate. Can I get them sacked just because of that? Of course not. I just have to smile and put up with them and pretend to like them. In fact I do it in my present job. I know you might say, 'ah but AD wasn't sacked because the other 2 didn't like him - it was coz of what he did.' For my reply to that, see my earlier message about Chris Tarrant's indiscretions etc.
It would have made Paul Merton the bigger man if he had rallied to AD and said that he was going to stand by him and if they sack you they'll have to sack me too. I know that's a crazy dream but there we go, I am a little crazy. If Paul Merton read what I've just written he'd probably be aghast. 'What, me stand by him?' Yes, for the good of the show and who knows - he might have been honest about his personal feelings about AD and they might have ironed out their differences. I can dream can't I?

[–] SukhiKay 16 years ago

i do sometimes feel that paul merton thinks he runs the show now though - when before angus deayton balanced things out a bit on the ego stakes - i just find the post angus stuff very contrived and i am starting to detect a lot of rehearsed or 'suggested' material entering into the show more often now than ever - its pretty much becoming a parody of itself... such a pity because at one time it was more than just a hilarious comic production it was also a genuine expose of news stories that were of immense relevence that never made it to the popular media... its all turning a bit tarby for me

Free Nelson Mandella.....

[–] douglaswatson 17 years ago

I don't think it misses Deayton. It is clear that Hislop and Merton did not like Deayton. I personally find him smarmy and easily dislikeable. I think he worked separately from the others - ALL his gags seems scripted, allegedly by his writers, whereas Hislops and Mertons seems genuinely fresh and off the cuff. All the same stuff is now (unoriginally) trotted out in his new show "Would I lie to you" - seems like he has the same writers. I doubt this new show will last long.

[–] dave_smith1984 15 years ago

Bumping an old post because I was thinking just the same recently...

Like one of the posters above, I've largely given up on HIGNFY in the last few series. It's lost so much of its edge, and seems really quite dumbed down now. Somebody used the word "cosy" above, and I quite agree. Watching some of the old episodes (nearly all on Youtube now), there was so much needle between Ian, Paul & Angus (not to mention loudmouth guests like Piers Morgan & Paula Yates) and a genuine aggression and savageness that any true satire needs, and is no longer evident in recent shows.

Guest presenters, as the OP wrote, was a nice, original idea at first but has rapidly become tired and sensationalist. Personally I'd never select anyone as host who hasn't guested before, so as to prove they were genuinely interested in the show's content rather than chasing a cheap buck/publicity. Agree that Alexander Armstrong probably would be the best choice as a permanent host (although I personally thought Martin Clunes was the most impressive), but for me, he'd just never measure up to Angus, mainly because he's too likeable. Yes, Angus came across as smug and superior, but that was just right for the show, giving him the authority (largely) to take control of the proceedings. Few of the other hosts have been able to do this. Also he was wittier than he's given credit for, and watching a few old episodes shows that he could give it out to Paul & Ian as well as anyone. Finally Angus seemed genuinely interested in politics, and if you watch old shows he would frequently subject guests, especially politicians, to a "mini-interview" in the middle of the show, and often this produced some of the show's funniest moments.

I think there was a genuine tension between Paul & Angus (Ian is on record as saying he has no problem with either) but that gave the show a tension & energy which is now completely lost. Ian & Paul have undoubtedly mellowed with time as well, and seem too chummy with everyone. But possibly the most annoying trait of the modern shows is the cranked up audience laughter. I've no idea who they get to be in the audiences, or what they inject them with, but every line, even if it's only slightly funny, is now greeted with a roar of laughter and frequently a round of applause (noticed this on American shows before.) I'm not sure if that says more about a British cultural shift or modern editing techniques, but either way it's extremely annoying. The Old shows were twice as funny but the audience reaction was, although appreciative, more muted, and appropriate to what was said.

In short, yes the programme was much better during the Angus years, partly because of him but also because of other reasons. Like the OP, I don't think either Angus or that era can be brought back, and I think it might be time to bring the show to an end, preferably replacing it with something genuinely satirical, highly unlikely as this may be.

[–] dave-1273 15 years ago

Agree completely with this poster. The 'Angus years' were better for lots of reasons: the show was new, exciting, and yes the (apparently real) tensions between Paul and Angus sparked off some excellent comedy. Angus was smarmy and sarcastic – that was part of the show's joy, its edge. Comedy, like pop/rock, has its time. It can still be good in retrospect but that initial buzz, that initial excitement has gone. Even the trailers for a new up and coming series of HIGNFY were wittier than most other programmes. Paul Merton is a bit of an enigma to me. He is outstanding at improvised comedy but scripted stuff – well, I recall a feeling of embarrassment when I saw his channel four series years ago. I remember thinking 'This is the great Paul Merton off HIGNFY. If he is so good at off the cuff jokes, his scripted stuff should be even better – so why is this so inane?' When Clement Freud died recently the TV news showed a clip of PM and Clement on the excellent 'Just a Minute' (RIP Clement). Now I know why it works well on radio. Clement was making off the cuff jokes but Paul looked fairly miserable. Perhaps thoughtful. I don't know. Maybe I read too much into it and that he was trying to think of something to say when it came to his turn – but his very serious expression certainly seemed to fit in with an idea I (and others) have gleaned about him from elsewhere – that he likes to make people laugh or steal the laughs from others. I don't think this is reading TOO much into it because if you listen to his and Ian's commentary on the HIGNFY DVD, he even comments on how he steals a joke from Tony Slattery and berates himself for it. Incidentally, that Angus was not asked to do HIS commentary on the same DVD shows how much he has been completely written off and ignored by what seems to me now an ungrateful show. Ungrateful because when he was in it, his contribution was just as important as anyone else's. I'd like to have heard Angus's commentary because I'd like to hear for once when Angus thought of the others 2 – Merton has rather pathetically let it be known since 2002 that he didn't like Angus. By not asking Angus to commentate, it's as though the other 2 were stating, 'It was OUR show all along and you were just a passenger.' Question for dave smith 1984 – where did you hear that Ian had no problem with Angus? Is that interview online and could you direct me there? Thanks.
Here lies HIGNFY 1990 - 2002 RIP

[–] dave_smith1984 15 years ago

Hi Dave, it's taken a bit of digging since I've not long deleted my browsing history but the interview is an Observer piece from 2006 commemorating 20 years of Ian Hislop editing Private Eye. It can be found here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/ian-hislop-my-20-years-at-the-eye-421312.html.

The relevant section is fairly brief:

"Hislop has not spoken to the show's former host Angus Deayton since he was sacked over tabloid sex and drug allegations. 'It was pretty ghastly, because I quite liked Angus, unlike Paul [Merton], who didn't at all, so it was much easier for him." He believes guest presenters from Boris Johnson to Gordon Ramsay have breathed new life into the show.'"

That sounds about right to me. While there were certainly plenty of crossed remarks between Ian and Angus over the years I think it's hard to detect any real antagonism there, and even when Angus' scandal breaks, I don't think Ian enjoys putting the boot into Angus any more than he did at the comeuppances of the various politicians he's seen off over the last 20 years (and usually reported on with glee on HIGNFY), and can distinguish between the real villains (Archer, Maxwell, Murdoch etc) and someone who's just a bit smug and occasionally needs taken down a peg or two like Angus.

Interesting observations about Paul, I have similarly confused feelings about him. He'd never admit it, but I don't think he's come out of the Angus affair well (let's face it, when someone of the stature & intellect of Stephen Fry says he is "very, very, very cross" with you you've got to question your behaviour somewhere along the line) and I can't help but wonder if the sustained success of HIGNFY over the years doesn't rather hide the fact that a man once considered probably the country's brightest young comedian hasn't really done too much else.

RIP indeed. The slow death of HIGNFY is not just the demise of a funny programme, but more importantly, the loss of one of the institutions that genuinely did keep British politicians on their toes for so long. In an era when these are becoming fewer and fewer, this is the real tragedy.

[–] dave-1273 15 years ago

Many thanks for the link. It was good to read. I think Ian may be being a bit disingenuous there about it not being as easy for him to have a go at Angus as it was for Paul. If you go to Youtube and look at the last show Angus did, there's one spot where Angus makes a joke and Ian says with relish, 'Yes, but it wasn't funny!' Which was untrue anyway because the audience laughed out loud. I think Ian may have backtracked a bit on Angus because of the reaction of those like Fry and the seemingly unimportant figure of the audience in all this. I mean, I would like to talk to Paul and say, 'What does it matter if you didn't like him? On screen you had a certain chemistry and the 3 of your worked well together - that's all that matters.' I mean, I work in a job and don't particularly like most of the people here but we work well together and know what works for the customer (i.e. the audience). Despite my babbling on like this, I think Angus will never come back. Either Paul wouldn't want him or Angus (more rightly in my humble opinion) would refuse to. And even if it did, you can't recapture the magic of those early series.

Paul (and Ian) I hope you get to read this one day.

[–] combatreview 15 years ago

I think you're being kind describing it as 'disingenuous' - Ian's sanctimonious behaviour was hardly muted at the time. In fact I'd say that whether or not we think Angus' absence damaged the show, it seems that the circumstances of his departure were even more damaging - the attitude of Paul and Ian thereafter kicked into a mode of unnecessary bullying of guest presents, and in particular Ian's moral disgust at certain guests has crossed into a realm of snobbish contempt consistent with the morality of the Daily Mail.

These days I find Hislop's reactionary morals, smug arrogance and his treatment of certain guests to be fairly unedifying. He frequently sneers at people for what I can't help but suspect is no more than what he's read about them in the paper, rather than any direct knowledge. It used to be that if he expressed a dislike to somebody it was because he well knew what a villain they were and could cite the facts about it. These days he seems to show contempt for people on the basis of what he personally thinks of them. It's like somebody's swapped John Pilger with my senile grandad.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] jimlasiter 15 years ago

I have to agree with people who were a bit disappointed with Pauls behaviour, because it wasn't just during the show that he bashed Angus he actually took evey oppurtunity to run him down. Here's a quote from a news site:

The HIGNFY Team Captain Paul Merton, who also takes part in ‘Just A Minute’ on Radio Four, denied allegations that he has been using public appearances to act in a supercilious manner at the expense of the game’s former host. A spokesman for Merton issued a statement today explaining that “Paul’s not smug at all. He’s just using every chance he gets to point out the fact he’s never found a prostitute who’ll take money from him.”

Merton has bashed Deayton at the BAFTAs, during HIGNFY and even during an interview with Parkinson, when he seemed more preoccupied with making jokes at Deayton’s expense than talking about the future of HIGNFY, his home life or his other forays in comedy. Parkinson quickly resorted to asking “So aside from hating Angus, what else are you doing? Anything..? Maybe you went shopping the other day? No? Made a phone call?”

Here's the link. It also has some other interesting insights about Paul.
http://archive.ktab.co.uk/2003/www.ktab.fsnet.co.uk/passenger016/merton.html

The article doesn't mention it but he's also bashed Angus a few times on Room 101. And as much as I like Paul I have to admit the guy has a massive ego and if he doesn't like you then watch out because he can really hold a grudge. It's a real shame too because all 3 guys played off each other so well, I guess 3 big egos just can't co-exist for long. Sad.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] combatreview 15 years ago

Ooh, hadn't heard that one! Mind you, Merton himself wasn't entirely monogamous from what I recall - I seem to remember him running off with Caroline Quentin's understudy when they were married...

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] jimlasiter 15 years ago

Was there really a story going around that Angus had slept with Pauls wife? Wow that would certainly explain Pauls animosity toward Angus that lasted for years, detailed here: http://archive.ktab.co.uk/2003/www.ktab.fsnet.co.uk/passenger016/merton.html

[–] katsika 15 years ago

...You do realize that's a spoof article, right?

[–] jimlasiter 15 years ago

Actually it's not a spoof, everything that's mentioned in the article actually happened including Merton's appearance on Parkinson. The fact is Merton kept on obsessively beating on Angus for months and months but seems to have gotten it out of his system now.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] CartlinK 9 years ago

Sounds like an @rse

If anyone boos you off stage, that is simply applause from ghosts. ~Sharon Needles

[–] dave-1273 15 years ago

I saw HIGNFY last week and the only good joke, and the only one that I can recall later, was shouted out by a member of the audience (March of the Penguins). When your audience is funnier than you are, it's time to quit.