Liberal Propaganda.


I expected so much from this series but it was ruined by the maker's liberal viewpoint.
If anyone doubted which side Burns was on this made up your mind along with his comments on the Gettysburg dvd.
Why was that awful dirge "Battle Cry of Freedom" continually played in the background?
Quotes were taken out of context,particularly where Sherman was concerned.
Anyone who hadn't read up on Sherman would believe he was almost an abolitionist after viewing this,which couldn't be further from the truth.
Lincoln's views on slavery were never scrutinised for the simple reason that he would have been exposed as the hypocrite he was.
"My paramount objective in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union."(1862)
In conclusion,a nasty, biased piece of work.


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VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

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How in God's name is this LIBERAL propaganda? Are conservatives pro-slavery? Is there really still debate about whether African-Americans should be free? Is that a liberal idea? It may be "Northern" propaganda, and maybe history gets whitewashed for historical figures to make them seem more palatable by today's social standards, but liberal propaganda? I'm sure you have both strong opinions against "liberals" and the damn yankees, but this is too much of a stretch. Find some other reason to hate Democrats.

Also, isn't it a more "liberal" crowd that wants to downplay the historical importance of Washington, Columbus, and other figures whose personal blemishes have been glossed over in the past? It sounds like you're upset that Burns didn't do the same for Lincoln and Sherman. So then really, this isn't liberal propaganda, it's conservative propaganda if anything. WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE?!?

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For example, the fact that the democrats opposed the Civil rights movement. LOL

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Congrats Scotreb01, spoken like a true moron!

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[deleted]

I'm a Conservative. I thought this was film great. Also, the film DID address Lincoln's reservations about emancipation and aloof view of slavery in general.

I think where interpretation of the Civil War bothers some folks like the OP is the disconnect between modern Right and Left and how we look at the Civil War in general.

What he's ranting about is the general perception that's been fostered by the Left that the Civil War WAS about slavery. Most 5th graders, if you ask them what it was about, will say that.

Now in and of itself that's not a bad perception, as centuries march on the encapsulation of the War will have to become simpler, and "freeing the slaves" isn't such a bad label.

However, Conservatives (like myself) look at modern Liberalism as an exercise in divide and conquer. So, where they're concerned, saying the Civil War was exclusively about slavery fuels their narrative that the history of America is all about groups of people being oppressed by others...and needing Federalism to help them.

Whereas a Conservative looks at the foundation of America and sees the individual and his/her drive to excel and live the life they choose.

Are there cases where intervention is needed? Sure. Check the 13-15th amendments. Though, many have become disenchanted with the sheer amount of
"social justice" legislation in the last 50 years, especially from the Federal level.

So I'm guessing the OP looks at the modern narrative, from the Left (for the most part), that it was all about slavery, and sees the Left using it as their justification for modern legislation that the Right is opposed to (Affirmative Action, entitlement programs, taking Founding Father's names off schools because they owned slaves etc.) and just sees "Liberal Propaganda"

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The Civil War WAS about slavery essentially. The election Of Abraham Lincoln, who was strongly for prohibiting the expansion of slavery to any new states, was what triggered it. It was about states rights alright...TO KEEP SLAVES. The good guys won.

Open the door for Mr. Muckle!!

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I think that Ken Burns had a very unbiased focus during The Civil War. The south weren't portrayed as evil, but rather as courageous on the battlefield and colourful folks off the battlefield. The documentary also very clearly showed that the civil war wasn't necessarily about slavery from the off-set.

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And speaking of "states rights" ... ever notice how none of the Southern states had a problem with the Fugitive Slave Act? This was, of course, the federal law that said that runaway slaves even in non-slave states had to be returned to their masters. Where, in this allegedly principled stand that the South took, was the insistence upon repealing the Fugitive Slave Act?

And of course, "The Civil War" discusses Northern hypocrisy about blacks and slavery as well, such as the draft riots in NYC where blacks were lynched, black orphanages were burned to the ground, and so on. "The Civil War" doesn't cast either side as a bastion of decency to the black man, as anyone knows who actually watched it. So it's not "Liberal Propaganda" except to the extent that a person might want to take pride in their past (i.e. Southern Pride) without being reminded of the brutal details.

In summary: the South seceded because of slavery, and the Civil War was fought because the South shot at the North and earned themselves a Shermanation.

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Lou114 The Confederate apologists are big fans of of the "Lost Cause" myth. Southern propoganda created in the 1880's to blur the truth about their treason.

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Myth? The one certain thing about the war is the result ! I write as a Civil War and sympathiser with the South - they had the.right to secede for whatever reason. I'm essentially a romantic.

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Myth? The one certain thing about the war is the result ! I write as a Civil War and sympathiser with the South - they had the.right to secede for whatever reason. I'm essentially a romantic.

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[deleted]

"Though, many have become disenchanted with the sheer amount of 'social justice' legislation in the last 50 years, especially from the Federal level."

Yeah, nice to be on the white side of that debate. Blacks had to suffer through a century of terrorism, institutional oppression, and general dehumanization before the federal government decided to take serious measures against it. And even after 50 years of legislation that have brought you such soul-crushing "disenchantment", you know it's still way easier being white than black.

(And yes, "terrorism" is the right word. The most prominent terrorist organizations in the United States have long been White Supremacist groups, often operating with the tacit approval of "good and decent" men.)

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You are as buffoonish as the OP; sweeping nondescript posts with little meaning.

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"the south were a bunch of dickheads, and we took it to them. They never tried that crap again. Plain and simple."



Comments like the one's above make you sound ignorant and ludicrous. Please show some respect to those "dickheads" as you call them...they were american's.....and died in a terrible war.




But we can hold our spirits and our bodies so pure and high, we may cherish such thoughts and such ideals, and dream such dreams of lofty purpose, that we can determine and know what manner of men we will be, whenever and wherever the hour strikes and calls to noble action.
Joshua Chamberlain
20th Maine Infantry
1st Brigade, 1st Division, V Corps

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I don't know what the OP watched. That very quote you put in your post is in the freaking documentary. Throughout much of it Lincoln's reservations about freeing the slaves was talked about, and in fact your quote is taken out of context.

As for Sherman, I don't know how you got your idea at all. He is portrayed as a great military leader, and a brutal one at that. That is all. I think the OP is the one who is heavily biased.

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Here, take a look at the constitution of the Confederate States of America:

http://www.filibustercartoons.com/CSA.htm

Actually the Confederate constitution was a copy of the US Constitution with some strategic changes, and that page details those changes. Tellingly, most of the changes are about preserving slavery, but the Confederate constitution doesn't do much of anything to enhance or protect "states rights" beyond what the US Constitution does. They seceded over slavery; "states rights" is just historical revision.

Also, it's funny how the southern states never felt that the Fugitive Slave Act violated "states rights", because that one worked in favor of slaveholders.

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Slavery was a major issue of the cause of the War of Northern Aggression but as you cite it was not the #1 issue at the time. It began when the industrialized north had laws and rules passed favoring them over the southern states, along with unfair trade practices, and violations by a northern packed Supreme Court. From there it just went downhill fast with many issues being brought up. Lincoln made slavery the main issue two years into the war (when the North was losing) in order to rally the troops and civilian populace including getting more volunteers to die on the battlefield.

The most important question which is still being asked today is if the people of a State that entered a federal union voluntarily had the right to secede from that union voluntarily (regardless of the other issues). Lincoln and the North said, "no, you can't leave (we need your cotton and other agricultural products at a cheap price)." This despite no documents ever being issued when the particular States joined the union to begin with forbidding it. Rather, it was assumed if you didn't it like then get out. The main purpose of the federal union to begin with was for the common defense and secondarily, trade protection.

But as other posters have mentioned, the winners always write the history which becomes biblical, years, decades, and centuries after the fact. We can't change that history and arguing over it now is a waste of time. What we can change is the future where the 10th Amendment is concerned. I believe we will see that "change" after the next two national elections, hopefully without one drop of blood being spilled, as the nation's forefathers envisioned.


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My favorite: "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"

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Here is another link:

http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html

Several states explain why they want to secede, and slavery figures in prominently (sometimes as reason #1). Texas is particularly funny, in that they complain about non-slave states failing to live up to the Fugitive Slave Act. But isn't the Fugitive Slave Act a violation of the 10th Amendment? Shouldn't the Confederate states applaud the bravery and independent-mindedness of people in non-slave states refusing to honor the Fugitive Slave Act? Well of course not, because the reality is, Secession was all about slavery and no amount of historical revision will change that. (The subsequent Civil War, meanwhile, was about the North not taking kindly to getting shot at; make no mistake, the aggressor in the Civil War was the Confederacy.)

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Jerry,

I think you need to do some research on the Civil War. There is no debate as to why the war started or the south seceded, you're simply parroting talking points of the Lost Cause doctrine which was an ideology created by the same men who helmed the confederate administration as a way to cleanse the evil of slavery their hands.

The reality is that the war had everything to do with slavery, as did secession.

You don't have to believe me though, here is Alexander Stephens, VP of the Confederacy shortly after secession:

"The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution — African slavery as it exists amongst us — the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted.
Stephens went on to say
(Jefferson's) ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. ... Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner–stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition."

There were certainly other reasons for secession, but it is completely false history to say that it wasn't the largest factor. To continue parroting this BS Lost Cause doctrine is to become an apologist for a people who thought that "the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery--subordination to the superior race--is his natural and normal condition" and were willing to fight a war to protect this idea.

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We can all have an opinion and you can cherry-pick all you want but the slave owners were few in number and some of the largest slave owners were free blacks. So it remains my opinion and of many others that to, Confederate John Q Public, and 90% of the people who died in the war from the South were not fighting over slavery.

Regardless of the reasons, the act of secession was no where mentioned in the Constitution nor was it made as a rule of common law at the time. Common sense would dictate that if a State that voluntarily joined a union wished to secede they should have that right without fear of being killed and private property seized.

However I'm not ruling out that there could be a civil case of the union demanding restitution for certain prior acts and properties (like Ft. Sumter).


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My favorite: "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb"

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Simply stated, I don't have any doubt that Slavery is the reason for secession and the initial cause of the war. The southern politicians had to make it about "states rights" in order to get the majority of Southerners who didn't own slaves to fight. So yes, the bulk of the army was fighting against Northern aggression and for States rights.

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What individual soldiers fight for is why wars last as long as they do and are as bloody as they are. Its not why they start. You shouldn't ignore the motivations of the people who called for Secession Conventions, the people who were delegates to them, and those who drafted and signed the Secession Ordinances, all of whom were from slave dominant counties.
Secession may not be enumerated as such in the Constitution but Article 1 Section 10:"No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance or Confederation....or make any law impairing the Obligation of Contracts[ie the Constitution] Paragraph 3 No state shall, without the approval of Congress,...enter into any agreement or Compact with another state(the Confederacy). The Constiitution doesn't ban secession outright but it does outlaw the means to do so unilaterally and arbitrarally without Congressional approval, which is just what the South did.

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"States Rights" was just a not-so-clever euphemism for an entire socio-political system based on slavery. The majority of southerners didn't own slaves. But just like now, it's often the case where the poor/and or under-educated end up fighting the rich man's wars and causes, whether literally or by spreading their warped ideologies for the rich man.

When the country was being formed, the big issue that almost kept it from happening, was the southern-states insistence on continuing slavery, oh sorry, "state's rights". Of course, knowing that the evil of bigotry was sprinkled all over the country, allowing this cancer to happen at the very beginning of this country for the sake of The Union, is the very same thing that tore it apart.

The next 150+ years of American history proves the Civil War was fundamentally about either preserving or ending the evil. To this very day we are still trying to get rid of the legacy threads of Slavery.

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Well put, Mimi-16.

I wish people would stop trying to plaster modern partisan concepts onto the nation as it existed in the 1860s. "Liberal" and "conservative" simply don't apply. Nor do Democrat and Republican. People back then lived in a fundamentally different world; even Northern heroes like Sherman, Sheridan and Custer thought it perfectly acceptable to go out West after the war and kill Indians. The heady rhetoric at the end of the Civil War quickly gave way to the legacy of Jim Crow segregation, and it would be another 100 years before blacks achieved any semblance of equality.

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