So did they have sex or not?


didnt quite get it... did spader and andie f uck or what? and i'm just making sure, they did end up together at the end, right?

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I think they may have beeped on that occasion or may not have. The point is that Ann is guilty because they weren't exactly holding hands.

I think that the moment when Graham opens his eyes is the moment he realises that he has finally achieved an erection in the presence of another person. However, that is not conclusive proof that they beeped. Maybe they didn't have any contraceptive arrangements in place and they did something else instead.

Yes, they seem to be in a relationship at the end.
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Nicebat: party animal.

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I've always thought it fairly obvious that they had sex.

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I think they probably did, but I rather like not knowing for sure.

Penelope is a full-grown horse, and today happens to be my half-birthday!

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u mean the characters or the actor/actress?

i would probably say both did, hehe...

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In case you didn't notice in the credits or the "trivia about the movie" section, Mrs Spader was set decorator on the film and would probably have got to find out if her husband were up to something with Andie MacDowell.

Sweet - yet bent on global domination!

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James Spader is married??

i thought he was single...

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He was married from 1987 to 2004 and has two sons from that marriage. He and his wife apparently separated sometime in 2000. He is now with Leslie Stefanson, who appeared with him in The Stickup and Alien Hunter.

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sad marriages never seem to last anymore nowadays...

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But everyone on here who has commented seems to think it is sad they broke up, ie taking the side of the wife and not of Ms Stefanson.

I think perhaps we are projecting something about our own experiences of heartbreak.

Sweet - yet bent on global domination!

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We don't know who - or what - caused the break up of the marriage though, do we?

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One of the posters on a now defunct thread had read (this being some years back) that he had signed the divorce papers but Victoria/Vickey/Vicki had not. He apparently told the interviewer that of course he was cool about that, he was on good terms with Victoria because of their children.

(Huh? Did he mean that it would be okay to ignore her or be nasty to her if one of them had been sterile or if they had chosen not to breed??? I don't think he meant that, but it goes to show how people can tie themselves up in knots with words.)

If this is accurate, then it very much suggests that she did not want to be divorced.

Sweet - yet bent on global domination!

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I dunno. The IMDb board for JS says they divorced in 2004. Presumably the only ones who know the truth is the people involved, which is as it should be of course.

I always feel sorry when a relationship breaks up after a long period of time. It seems sad somehow but if they both decided to go their own ways but remain good friends that's probably the best outcome in such a situation. More than most of us could hope for.

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Wishful thinking.

Unless it's inaccurate about her reluctance to sign on the dotted line.

Sweet - yet bent on global domination!

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Unless it's inaccurate about her reluctance to sign on the dotted line.

Which it may well be, since there are so many takes out there on why the marriage ended and whether it has legally ended at all.



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I thought imdb said they divorced in 2004!

Anyway, if my husband had been 888888ing a 34 year old for years and taking her to award ceremonies and stuff, I might just start to think I wasn't going to get him back. I would be very sad, of course.

The return of the bat! Here's nicebat!

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I thought imdb said they divorced in 2004!

It does - but I did a bit of research on another board and the general consensus seems to be that nobody, outside the people concerned, knows exactly what the present situation is. What seems to be the case is that they separated some time before he met his present lady but whether this separation was by mutual consent or whether he wanted it or she wanted it is an unknown.

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Well, why would imdb say they divorced? What source is claiming that they did NOT divorce? Surely there is a public record of births, marriages and divorces so it would be a matter of public record whether or not they had been married, whether or not they had registered their names as parents of the 2 sons imdb claims they have and whether or not they were divorced.

Nicebat - the bat, but not the bat in the hat.

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i don't think they did. but we are to draw our own conclusions anyway.

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I think they DID have sex. If they didn't, why Ann would switch off the video camera? sure they did have some sex.

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I think it was Graham who turned it off, but maybe it was Ann (no E). I'm sure something of a sexual nature happened, but I think we are left to guess what. For all we know, she might have said, "I'm not on the Pill, do you have any condoms?" and he might have said, "Are you joking, why would I have bought them?" and then they might have agreed to do something else.

Oh, no! Bart has stolen the elderly!

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Graham got up off the couch and turned the video off-and it wasn't top go make pizza!

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It was not to make pizza, the question is not whether something sexual took place, but whether he did beep her. As per John's comment, "Well, at least I know he didn't **** you." Ann looks guilty as heck, but we cannot be sure quite how far they went that time.

Oh, no! Bart has stolen the elderly!

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Hmmm... I thought you would be able to figure that out own your own, but I was wrong!

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If I had answered this question yesterday I would have said yes, but having seen the film twice in a row yesterday and then today, I am not so sure now. Let me tell you why.

Right after Graham starts taping her and asks her name, and she answers, we cut to a scene where Ann is lying on the sofa facing Graham sitting just beside her. She looks at him, he looks at her and then she turns her head, her face kinda sad. Then we see her coming home and telling John she wants out of their marriage.

Now Ann's lying position on the sofa is the same as the one when Graham gets up off the sofa and turns off the camera after they kiss. When I first saw this scene and then the screen goes fuzzy, I thought, ok, they're gonna do it. But as I said, taking the previous scene into account, I can't be so sure now. In that scene, they actually do not look like two people who are gonna have sex, they are in a different mood. I guess they didn't have to have sex either, they have already shared a kind of intimacy that they haven't shared with others, without being physically intimate.

Anyway, has anyone else noticed that scene? What do you think?

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I think they had sex. Why her expression when John tells her he at least knows they didn't?. Would be cheaply misleading if they actually didn't... And the fact that he said that, seems to me it's meant to show that later on, when he sees the video, its compleletly the opossite of what he expected. He expected him to try to hit on her, but it's just the other way around, he thought they wouldn't have sex, but they did. At least he thinks they did, clearly.

Anyway, no sense in any of that if they didn't. Though the another poster does have a point about the scene before she goes home.

"The Love you take is equal to the Love you make" The Beatles.

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it's funny because i saw this twice in a row too, and the third time with Soderbergh commentary along with Neil LaBute... on the scene, LaBute kinda asked if they had sex and soderbergh answered "We're meant to believe so"... So i guess that's a yes.

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EXCELLENT observation, @pearlmode - I'm watching it now and I get what you mean...that bit always lent ambiguity as to whether they did beep or not. The look on Graham's face (and Ann's) doesn't look sexual, and they don't look particularly rumpled - they're in a different emotional space, as you say. Very intimate.

I do think though that by the time we see them on the steps at the end, Graham and Ann have consummated their relationship, but that's what's so cool about this movie: it's not even relevant if they had SEX, but that they achieved true intimacy, even for Ann - remember, when Graham strokes Ann's arm, that's the only time we see Ann receive (and accept) physical affection from another person (apart from John's flashback). And she's at ease with herself, as is Graham.

Love This Movie!!!

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Thank you @madamecynne. Glad to see that I'm not the only one.

Love the movie too!

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I don't think they did have sex to be honest, I like to think they just held each other for a while on the couch and that cemented their love better than sex.

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[deleted]

According to the original script, they did not have sex, though Ann wanted to badly.

the link to the script:
http://sfy.ru/?script=sex_lies_and_videotape

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Thanks for the link
This looks like the shooting script to me. There's no way to know what happens after Graham turns off the camera. I always thought they had sex, but I love the fact that whatever happened it was too intimate for the camera. It's like Graham finally wants to be in the moment and experience something without objectifying it.

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I'm pretty sure they did have sex, can't be said for sure of course but I still think they did

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