MovieChat Forums > The War of the Roses (1989) Discussion > Oliver was a Terrible husband to Barbara

Oliver was a Terrible husband to Barbara

posted 13 years ago by JaysonT
37 replies | jump to latest

A lot of posters on here seem to think Barbara was a cold hearted b*tch who was totally asinine for demanding a divorce. But apparently they were not paying any attention at all to the first half of the movie, where we see explicitly what made her care for her husband less and less. Oliver was the one who was a total narcissist and unable to look at her like a individual. It doesn't matter how much money he threw at her- he was still failing as an actual partner and friend to her.

1) His rude remarks at her while at the dinner, where he cut her off. We can tell this was NOT the first time he had done that to her.

2) The way he dismisses her idea to start up her own business.

3) The way he flat out RUINED her client dinner where a critic from the Post was coming to critique her cuisine.

4) He cut off all the heels to her shoes- ALL of them! What a douche.

5) Did I fail to mention he ran over her cat and Killed it? Then tried to cover it up? At least when she pretended to cook his dog up, she was merely teasing.

Insulting someone's intelligence & Insulting their career is grounds for divorce in my book. The fact that Oliver COULD NOT understand why Barbara wanted a divorce was even more atrocious, and it explains why Barbara would not give him a reason. He was too aloof to know.

[–] TayHayesTeam 13 years ago

Spot on!
People who say she is a violent and bitter hag missed totally the point.
HE made her that! He married a vivacious, positive and sweet woman and made her into tired and alone house wife.
Her only fault was to agree to that for so long! I guess she loved him very much so she was fooling herself and avoiding the truth hitting her. Finally it did and all she was doing was fighting for her long lost freedom and independence.

[–] Thomas-FordJr-1 13 years ago

If Barbara was so "alone", she could have went out and got a job. But no, she was just enjoying the free ride until SHE got tired of it...

[–] TayHayesTeam 13 years ago

She was deluding herself that love for him is all she needs and she will manage. That's her fault and being passive in career field for so long too, I agree. But in contrary she already had two kids to take care and raise and a house to finish up so she got her attention away from being alone and unhappy.

[–] mpurvismattp 9 years ago

Well just like any real relationship neither person is fully to blame and neither party is completely innocent. People make mistakes, they hold grudges, they become bored/cheat or they just fade away from one another. Often things like a major tragedy or financial difficulties which can cause extreme stress and often make a seemingly strong bond become weak, so weak that it just cant hold any longer and eventually succumbs to the weight of all the negativity, pain or hatred that has built up between two people who at one time really loved and cared for one another (in most cases they did once anyway). To me when u blame Michael Douglas' character and say he made her that way I think U missed the point actually. She wanted that house and kept posting notes on it to let the owner know that if they ever thought of selling that she was a buyer. The only thing is she wanted to buy the house with the money Douglas was working his ass off for! Now he got her the dream house she never thought she would have and sent both of their children to Harvard on his dime! Yeah he seems like a real prick. Now to do all these things and try and give his family a nice life he may have neglected some of his duties as a husband leaving her feeling alone (especially once the kids left the home as u may have noticed) but I think he probably did it because he thought he was doing ok. It came across as a surprise that she was so unhappy and I think she probably could have been more vocal about her needs. He could've asked her about things like these but when things seem like they're going well people often assume that they are and don't think to ask because it doesn't seem necessary. There is no doubt that both of them sunk to the very bottom of the barrel for revenge against one another but to say that Douglas was the reason is to me a false accusation and they both are guilty. Their death coming at the hands of a petty fight which left them swinging on a chandelier (so typical right?) and resulting in both of their twisted lifeless bodies plunging onto the cold marble floor below is a perfect metaphor for there relationship. They were once flying high, in love and happy but the hatred, stress and petty grudges caused them to fall from grace and left them both as cold as the marble floor itself. The floor of their home that they once thought would be a dream but ended up becoming a nightmare that neither would ever wake up from.

[–] InherentlyYours 7 years ago

People who say she is a violent and bitter hag missed totally the point.
HE made her that! He married a vivacious, positive and sweet woman and made her into tired and alone house wife.

Aw, men always make women what they ARE, I'm sure Cher would agree with you. The poor housewife is always such a victim and made to be a certain way because she married a "man". Free passes for helpless women--but only on a selective basis. What a bitch the unfair world is!

[–] linda_lee110282 13 years ago

Yes, he was. Her hatred was totally understandable. When I was younger, I used to think Barbara was wrong, she was a bitch, etc. But now, when I watch this film, I understand her. He never valued her, ever. He used her as a trophy. He did love her, but never did anything to secure her love for him, unlike her.

She didn't even want alimony. ONLY the house. He didn't need to pay a penny to her.

[–] Parsley_Mostly 12 years ago

That's interesting what you say, because I had the same reaction: when I was younger I was team Oliver, and now I'm older I am totally team Barbara. I understand how she hardened toward him and why. And I love that they don't spell it out, because it's something that is completely recognizable to someone who's been there, and still utterly foreign to someone who hasn't been. Which is how people sympathize with Oliver. Life experience totally colors one's view of this film, and again like you, I've held two opposing views about the same film based on life experience. God, such a great film.

[–] sane1216 13 years ago

While I agree that he wasn't all that great of a husband, he is not the sole reason for the marriage falling apart.

1) She did not complain when his long hours and career driven work ethic gave her the money to refurnish and upgrade the house.
2) The issues did not arise until she became bored due to her previous duties (upgrading the house, taking care of the kids, keeping the house) were now complete.

In response to the original posts comments.
1) She was carrying on and did not realize the dinner party was not paying attention to her story. My wife corrects me sometimes when I mispronounce words in front of guest or get a piece of a story wrong. I do not consider it belittling me, yet when a man does it to a woman it's degrading her some how? Plus after that part of the story line they made up and Oliver apologize in his own way and Barbara accepted it. That was not the catalyst for the divorce, it was when he carelessly killed the fly while reading her contract and with her contract.
2)He did not dismiss her idea. I think he was kind of confused about it. He was making all the money and didn't understand. Had he dismissed it he would have told her not to do it. He even went as far as suggest she hire a housekeeper to help her with house duties so she could engulf herself in her business. I would have agreed if you said he didn't show any interest in it.
3) I don't think this is fair. They were at the boiling point at this junction in the story line. Oliver just reached the limit before Barbara. I could argue her antics were also shown to spill into his work when his boss asked him to take "time off."
4) Again unfair since this was in response to her locking him in the sauna.
5) It was an accident. I don't agree with his initial choice to hide it, but the housekeeper hid it also. He finally told her when she confronted him, he could have chosen to lie about it until she figured it out on her own. It was indeed an accident. The point you're missing here is by this junction in the story they were already at one another's throats and common courtesies were out the window.

He never insulted her intelligence or her career. He may not have thought much of her career as I said, but he never insulted it. Despite his opinion of it he attempted to help her although she did not appreciate that help yet she accepted it. (the maid/housekeeper) His correction and cutting her off at the dinner party was not insulting her intelligence. I thought he did it tactfully and without disrespect to her. You obviously did not see the entire dinner party (WOMEN INCLUDED) ignoring her drawn out story.

I don't think it was too much to ask for her to tell him why. It would've been nice if she gave him REAL reasons and not just the results of why, "I can't watch you sleep, eat, or be in my presence" were all results of the reason and not the reason. So, of course he would go about thinking it was repairable and confused about the reason. Despite what you think...from his perspective she didn't have a good reason....she didn't tell him.

[–] deliaw1946 13 years ago

Jayson, embarrassing her at the first dinner by taking over her telling of the story about the crystal. He must have known she wasn't good at that sort of thing, so, like she said, HE should have told story in first place.

[–] LukeLovesFilm28 11 years ago

Yes. He was being a condescending ass in that moment. And Barbara called him on it.

Guess what, he did admit to his faults at dinner. They laughed about it. They didn't try to kill each other.

However, I think, with everything else, before and after, they were less and less honest with themselves. They got too obsessed with working. Barbara worked her ass off to fix up that great, big house. Oliver worked his ass off to keep that house and put food on the table. I think they just stopped talking. Being a shut-in, Barbara has more time to think. Her hatred festered. Oliver was probably going through the motions at home, get work taken care of easily. He was blind to her unhappiness. But, it doesn't help if she's not saying anything... like she did after that dinner. That was her real, strong and independent personality, as we see later, shining through. She was willing to listen to him. He was willing to listen to her. And they got along great.

[–] leishayoung 12 years ago

I actually think that they are both as bad as each other, and have equally detestable qualities. I don't feel sorry for either of them.

[–] 12 years ago

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[–] Darkfalz1979 12 years ago

What you don't get is this is the normal, natural dynamic that develops in a relationship when one person is the bread winner and the other is a dependent (believe it or not, irrespective of which gender is which). There can never be full reciprocity and respect for each other's roles.

If you don't want it, either don't be a gold digger or get an excellent pre-nup.

[–] randyhndrsn 12 years ago

Both of them are terrible, and them being together was the problem.