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Do Finns Still hate Russians Because of what happened in the Winter War?

posted 16 years ago by russianguy192
30 replies | jump to latest

Im Just Curious, im russian born living in New Zealand, as im kind of a WW2 maniac i learnt alot of stuff about WW2 and taking more interest in the Winter War, i have grown more interest about battles my country has fought in WW2, I have increasingly grown interest in learning more about the Finnish-Soviet Wars in WW2 , yes i know how it started and what happened, because our stupid coward leader at Stalin at the time declared war on Finland,i have seen some of the movie tavolista (sorry for the bad spelling) and it seems interesting and looks very good i was hoping to get it but dont know where so itll properly be impossible plus i dont have a credit card :(, i have meet a few finns and generally they are all very nice and all. i have a few good finnish friends that ive made online also. I was hoping to visit finland when i get older because im very interested in WW2 History, i hope to Visit at least Finland,Germany,Poland and some parts of Russia and Ukraine to see museums and if not reanctments :P. But i have asked some finnish people and i asked if i visited finland would finnish people look down on me for being russian? If i visit Finland would i be treated unfairly? Do people still carry on the hate for russians in finland? or is this all untrue?

i have been doing more research on individual battles and such i did come across the Winter War and Continuation War and its Battles a year back and just have grown more interest, since i know alot about the Battles Between Soviet Union and Germany and its battles,ive seen a alot of war movies mostly consisting of russian,american,german made, it shows me how each side fought and what they were fighting for and their individual struggles for freedom.

Yes i can see how some finns can hate russians but it really wasnt our fault it was the government to blame at the time. Really russians had no choice and generally speaking Stalin was a very powerful ruthless man and worse than hitler i think why people listened to him at the time was because they were afraid of what he going to do to them. Look at the way he treated our own soldiers and people. I understand Finland fought for independence and freedom in the War and the war between SU and Finland should of never happened. I know that i myself i dont hate germans because of what happened in WW2, it was all to blame on the Nazi and Stalin for killing over at least 25-30 million of our people.Yes at the time leadership and morale in the Red Army was very poor many soldiers didnt want to fight in the first place and didnt know what to do, but by the time germany invaded us many soldiers had something to fight for. That is why we had at least 10x casulaties compared to 1 Finnish Soldier in WW2 because of low morale,leadership,and many soldiers had no intention of fighting finns.

So do some finns still dislike russians because of what happened? im am just curious please be honest? because i would want to visit Finland when im older and learn more.

[–] henriwr 16 years ago

Some of the Finns do hate Russian. Some of the Finns are afraid of them. Me, I don´t either hate or scare them.

[–] hecatonchiros 16 years ago

There's still certain amount of fear and even hate towards Russia (note: Russia, not russians) among finns, but generally speaking most finns are fairly indifferent towards our neighbor in the east. IIRC Russia is still our number one trading partner, and the relations between Finland and Russia are very good. Of course, some are worried about the recent events in Russia, such as the efeects that the ever-growing nationalism in Russia might have in the relations between it and it's smaller neighbors, but overall, things are good.

[–] juutuub 16 years ago

This is how I see it:

Finns have no problem with russians in general, but the nationalism in russia is growing and Putin is endorsing it by having parades that remind us from Soviet Union times and financing Nasi (the youth organization who were part of a riot in Estonia). There is a concern of rewriting the history in Russia and once again teaching lies to the next generation.

You should also visit the Baltic countries. I believe they all have museums worth visiting. Because Russia oppressed and ruled them with violence, perhaps you should direct your questions towards those nationalities. Official Russian history (Putin's view) says that Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia willingly joined Soviet Union, which is so not true.

I don't hate any russians who live in Finland, but if I'd hear any russians spreading Putin's propaganda, I'd be furious (and sad for the mislead person). Nowadays there is a noticeable russian minority and I haven't heard complaints from them (other than them bashing finnish culture).

If you come to Finland and speak english you should not have any problems. Some finns may dislike russians, but e.g. my granpa doesn't hate (he was in the war). If Russia said "sorry" and gave the lost areas and Viaborg back, I'm sure no one would dislike russians anymore :)

There are a lot of russian and other international tourists in Helsinki and it is safe for you to travel. Welcome!

If you stay a long time you might want to travel to eastern finland.
http://www.raatteenportti.fi/

"it was the government to blame at the time."
It always is. That is why finns may dislike Russia, not russians. But russians, who claim Soviet Union was good, deserve to be disliked. Putin was in KGB and I'm sure he loved it.

[–] russianguy192 16 years ago

that made me feel alot better thanks, yes i myself hate soviet government i think all russians who still think stalin was a great leader are a bunch of cowards, i hate the soviet government more than nazi government at the time of WW2. Stalin didnt value human life he purged out generals, and officers, he was very paranoid and angry man. He was very sick as in mentally, if he had not become leader of Soviet Union id think we would have a different opportunity in WW2, i myself think Soviet Union should of never attacked finland, instead we should of been creating awareness of the situation in germany and building our defenses up. I know i dont hate germans because of what they did to us in WW2 but it was the Nazi to blame , to be honest i cant stand people who bring up the past and sterotype that everyone of that ethincity is the same as they were in the past. I can see how finland was putting up a fight which i respect. If Soviet Union didnt attack Finland in WW2 i suspect Germany would of or Finland would of been a Neutral Nation like Sweden or Swizterland. But that is my own opinon. But Thanks, to be honest i have rarely no interest in the baltic states not because i dislike them its just i have alot of interest in areas of conflict. Im kind of very interested in military history especially WW2. I think Everyone in WW2 fought for their own reasons. The only people to blame are the dictators and the government at those times, i really wished someone would of assasinated stalin at the time , i have so much hatred towards him for many reasons.

[–] peikloof 16 years ago

Cant say I hate Russians, will if we get attacked though heh ;P
Its more of a hating a invidivual, and I dont know any Russians so I have no reason to hate any =)

Also, we would love to have some land masses back, specifically a right arm ;P

[–] timppa000 15 years ago

>Also, we would love to have some land masses back, specifically a right arm ;P

Most Finns couldn't care less about the "lost areas". That was ages ago, the Finns who used to live there are mostly dead now, and 99,9% of Finns consider those areas to be a permanent part of Russian, and all the people living there being Russians. Period.

There is still a shrinking but sometimes loud activist group in Finland demanding "Give Karelia back to Finland!", but they aren't taken seriously even in Finland. They are living in the past, and Finns don't see why they would need "the lost areas" back, when 95% of Finnish soil is nearly inhabitated already now. It is not like Finns are running out of "lebensraum" any time soon. ;)

[–] dyatsyuk 16 years ago

I think nobody hate Russians just because they are Russians, but some people and some nations dislike Russians more than others, because they fill hand of Russian imperialism.

If we spoke with Russians who understand that his country make many crimes / genocides, like Katyn (polish military killings), Holodomor (Ukrainian Great Famine), Finnish War, Afghanistan, etc; we haven’t any problem with such person.

But, if we spoke with some body who defend that Katyn was “clever option”, Holodomor “never exists”, Finnish War “was necessary against Nazi”; war in Afghanistan “it’s right of URSS to defend his border”, etc, it’s very difficult to like such people or have any friendly fillings about him / her.

[–] Studebacher_Hoch 16 years ago

I am not Finnish but I often visit the Country as I am married to a Fin. They are very polite and hospitable people and most will probably treat you in a very polite (if somewhat subdued) manner.

That said, although I have only met one Fin who made a racist comment about black people I have been surprised at how seemingly acceptable it is make racist comments and derogative jokes and statements about Russians. I have also seen some racist graffiti about Russians (in Joensuu). In the south (Helsinki) I have heard some snobbish comments (moaning) about the number of Russians shoppers arriving by train. Russians are often also broadly blamed for most drug related crime. In the north I have heard complaints about Russian prostitutes. I have also heard some (normally very reasonable) people complaining about Finland being thwarted in some large-scale economic deals, border delays, corruption and environmental pollution. Only the older folk seem to want Karelia back.

The above is not a description of the majority of Fins and I would still encourage you to go. This is one of the few criticisms in a seemingly freakishly near ‘perfect’ country. We are planning to immigrate to Finland some time in the near future.

The only other nation that I have heard Fins denigrate were the Swedes.

‘Hate’ is probably too strong a word. Most nations have some animosity with their immediate neighbours and wherever you go you will find some ignorant idiots.

I would recommend that you read ‘The Unknown Soldier’ by Vaino Linna and watch the original (1950's) film made of the book.

[–] Wezqu 16 years ago

Well it depens who you are talking to. I know that there are some racists people living here as I have heard several stories about racist behavior. Also people do denigrate Swedish and Russians some what but in reality its not much different with them either towards us. I could give examples of both as I have myself and people I know witnessed same things. Still also people should remember that we were once part of both nations and that history isn't easilly forgoten. I live near russian border and in reality I have some prejudice against those who come here just to buy stuff as they tend to think themselfs better than us (not all of course). Still I have had several friends that have relatives from russia or are partly russian and they are good people. Still they could sometimes think that they are in Finland and if they know someone else in a group doesn't understand russian they should not talk it in the group as the other person can't know what they are saying and can't really defend himself if they are making fun of him. Also about Karelia in reality I think that most people might want it back as it is part of Finland but its not really wanted so much that we would start to ask Russia to give it back, but if it would be given I think most likely Finland would accept it back.

In reality if you are well spoken and respect people you are going to be all right. Also if you really wan't to visit some places were you can see some WWII history I would recomend Mikkeli and Lappeenranta. As Mikkeli has the headquarters of Mannerheim where he lead the war and Lappeenranta as it has the last line of defence of Finland Salpalinja. It would have been the last line of defence in WWII but it never saw action as the russian attack was managed to stop and peace was signed. Still it is some parts in good condition and still part of history. I have seen parts of it myself several times. Also in Lappeenranta you can see earlier history of Russian influence in Finland as it has the Finlands first ortodox church and there was battle with Swedish who defended the city and the russian invaders known as Battle of Lappeenranta where Russians slaughtered the swedish/finnish defenders after they killed one of their officers under flag of truce.

[–] deeveed 16 years ago

I am an American and I have this film and watch it every now and then.
Needless to say, I'm always fascinated at how Finland dealt with the Russians and defeated them time and again with what they had as far as men and materiel.
Each day no doubt ordinary men,women and children had to go out and fight for their lives and country. You do what you have to do to survive and Finland defended hard.

You know I don't think I'm wrong where I believe Russia will always "eye" some of Finland's territory. I don't mean outright unprovoked invasion but a possible potential war always brings up the territory aspect between the two countries. No doubt Russian and Finnish military planners have looked at scenarios on this. I don't think this will happen immediately but countries have to be realistic in how they view certain aspects of the future. Question is would Finalnd defend the way she did in the Winter War or are we in another time?

[–] Wezqu 16 years ago

In reality I don't think they anymore want our land it would bring them more trouble than its worth. As Finland is known in all over the world as peaceful nation that participate in many peace keeping operations and is known as nation that doesn't take sides. Reason why the war happened was because Stalin made a deal with Hitler that gave him the right to occupy the baltic nations Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. It also included Finland to those nations. When Solviets invaded the baltic nations it raised the warning signs in Finland and almost everybody in the goverment and military knew that war might not be far away. Solviet started differently with Finland just asking some territory from us and even offered areas to compensate. Finland didn't agree to the exchange for the reason that the area they asked was more important than the area they were offering also what nations really just gives areas that belong to them to others when they come demanding them. Finland never wanted the war but made preparations to fight it to the end if it would have been necesery. Solviets intentionally bombarded their own borderstation with artillery. Then accused Finland that they did it and declared war soon after. Even after the war Finland was accused of starting the Winter War but after the Solviet Union colapsed Russia finally admited that they indeed started the war.

Also to answer the question you made. If Finland and Russia would go to war Finland would lose it as Russians have too big tech and troop advance. For example Russians have detaled maps of every base and military depots in Finland. In current day its almost imposible to hide anything from enemies and in reality if the war would come first thing that would happen would be full scale attack on every military base in Finland destroying most of the hardware and crippling most of the troops. Like taking out airforce by destoying the planes when they are still on the ground. This is really a totally different time but still even if Finland would be occupied by Russia. They would use guerilla tactics against them as finnish people won't never agree to be Russians and that is a fact. Still just to add that there is all kind of crazies out there and if one of them gets too much power bad things happen.

[–] JankaJaakari 15 years ago

Things now are some what different than they were then. Yes we would defend our self fiercely but they can take us out and that is known fact. It will not be easy nor cheap for them and they likely lose more than there is to be gained but in the end numbers against us are too great (I think finns are rare few nations sharing border with Russia understanding this fact). It was not called miracle of Winter War for nothing and second time we were lesser of two evil and our theatre of war was just side show any way so we were off the hook as Red Army rushed for Berlin. Skill, dare, determination and luck those things saved us then. Beside why would Russia bother to invide our land since russians can clearly bought us out (as they are doing right now...)

[–] timppa000 15 years ago

> Question is would Finalnd defend the way she did in the Winter War or are we in another time?

Unfortunately, nowadays Finns are among the fattest and sloppiest people in the world, all up there among you fatty Americans and Brits. ;) Nowadays Finns eat hamburgers, pizzas and play Playstation3 just like in other developed countries.

There is compulsory military service in Finland, which gives a pretty good idea and statistics of the "battle-readiness" of young Finnish men. As it happens, the high percentage of young men breaking off of the military service (due to e.g. not being able to handle the stress) is a hot topic now in Finland, as is the poor physical condition of the Playstation-generation. Many Finnish young men can't even do cross-country skiing nowadays. All this even though the current military service is considered to be much easier than the same two decades ago, or more.

Physical prowess aside, if another country would attack Finland, I think Finns would be just as united and determined as in the past... Well, maybe. Maybe more people would flee to Sweden, Central Europe or America in such a case than what happened in WWII.

Also, like others said, Russian troops of today are much better trained and have much superior technology. In WWII, it really helped Finland that Stalin had killed most of his skilled military officers.

[–] allenlud 16 years ago

Perhaps some really old people still hold a grudge against Russia since they lived trough the war, and that's something that you hardly ever forget. But I don't think young, or middleaged people have anything against them.
There are many Russian emigrants living in the town I grew up in, and to me it looked like everyone was getting along.

[–] deeveed 16 years ago

You both made very good points. I think it would be very interesting in how Finland's military has prepared for a possible ground/air war with Russia again. Unfortunately, in our time, you can never be 100% sure it won't happen again. As you noted, all those who were in the War are aged now and the young are on good terms with Russians. That will have inmplications I think.

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Radalan 16 years ago

Is it a coincidence that FDF calls Russia "A 2 Yellow".

[–] timppa000 15 years ago

> Do people still carry on the hate for russians in finland?

I wouldn't say Finns "hate" Russians, especially of something that happened like 60-70 years ago. Most Finns haven't seen the war. My father (RIP) did see and participate in the war, but he always made it clear that he doesn't dislike Russians, but their leaders (of Soviet Union).

I would say most Finns are pretty indifferent towards Russians living or visiting the country.

Some Finns may have certain amount of mistrust towards Russians, but then they have that towards many other foreigners as well. Earlier, Russians visiting or living in Finland were maybe considered to be untrustworthy and petty thieves by many, but this view has changed a lot during the last few decades with the Russian middle-class and rich tourists bringing money to Finland.

Furthermore, there is quite a big Russian minority living in Finland, which has integrated pretty well into Finnish society (unlike some other newer minorities). For example, I have several Russian workmates at my workplace, with university degrees, and I also know some Russians through my sports hobbies. I don't think anyone has anything bad to say about them, they are quite diligent and open persons.

The funny thing is that when I visited Russia, my main concern was if Russians had ill feelings towards Finns due to the obnoxious Finnish "vodka tourists". Anyway, at least the local Russians were quite friendly towards me (maybe because I was behaving myself), and I was quite surprised to find that there were even some "Finn-fans" living in Russia, mainly some younger people.

Hope this helps. ;)