MovieChat Forums > The Siege of Firebase Gloria (1989) Discussion > Director knew nothing about VC tactics

Director knew nothing about VC tactics

posted 18 years ago by bluegrassdude5601
33 replies | jump to latest

While I think this is a good movie, the military history-lover in me can't help but be disgusted by the inaccuracies of the VC.

The VC wouldn't have attacked a camp like Gloria in broad daylight with human waves. They would have attacked at night, using sappers to cut holes through the wire, followed by supporting mortar fire and large groups of assault troops. Daytime would have been spent harassing the camp with mortars and snipers. Also, they would have planned ahead when it came to helicopters and would have had several anti-aircraft weapons (probably .51 caliber mgs). Even without said mgs, a Huey would not have been able to fly through a barrage of AK-47 fire without getting hit.

[–] Borred101 18 years ago

That's wierd because I've now heard from three Vietnam Vets that this is the most realistic Nam movie around.

[–] bluegrassdude5601 18 years ago

Some people don't care about accuracy in military movies. Me, I just can't help it. And I can almost guarrantee you if you read some books on the VC and NVA, you would find that the tactics in the movie aren't realistic.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Blueshirt476 17 years ago

We talked about this movie in High School back in 1997 and my history teacher was a Vietnam Vet. He said this came pretty close and someone in class asked "Why did they VC just run at them in the middle of the day, Why not wait till Dark" He told us that Tet was insane and there was fighting 24-7.And that during the night they would use the dark to sneak in and kill people on fire watch, plant bombs and steal ammo and then use the ammo during the next day's fight.. And his base was almost overun during Tet and if it hadn't been for the straffing runs and napalm dropped they would have been wiped out. He told us how he saw with his own eyes VC soliders just running right through walls of napalm just to asborb it so the men behind them wouldnt get it..My teacher still has naplam burns marks on his hands and arms from that battle..

[–] darvis_86 11 years ago

Exactly. There's a reason why the VC were done as a fighting force after Tet. OP is just ignorant.

[–] Necramonium 9 years ago

I wonder who their military advisor was, because there were some strange things happens, like when the firebase finally gets attacked, and the first wave is done, and the sun sets down you see people just walking around with no worries at all on the firebase at the forward trenches, if this was Vietnam, a sniper would have taken their heads off before they even popped their heads out of the trenches.

[–] nickm2 9 years ago

With what night vision sights? Think if it like Zulu with a 'lull between setpieces';

Anyway, the director knew to use the VC 'massed infantry assault' after a whirlwind mortar/crew served weapon attack.

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

[–] Trencher10 17 years ago

Sometimes, tactics must be discarded whenever opportunity arises. Plus, concentrating AA equipment would take time & would be useless when artillery, jets & high-level bombers saturate the surrounding area.

And you would have to place yourself in the shoes of the VC commander: - his force's strength, his perception of the firebase's defense strength, the time he has before reinforcements make any attack impossible, his communications to his surroundng units, etc. Or even the commander was an idiot, who knows.

I doubt the NVA or VC fought using only the tactics you mentioned.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen this movie too, so I don't know how "inaccurate" the parts you're referencing to. Hehe!

[–] bluegrassdude5601 17 years ago

Being a genius general isn't required. Most of the stuff I listed that the VC did in real life (attacking at night, using stealth) is just common sense. And I'm going by the Osprey Book "Special Forces Camps in Vietnam" which has details on three separate attacks on three different bases. In each attack, the VC attacked at night and used stealth.

[–] exatreide 17 years ago

wow three seperate attacks? to bad there were more then that in a month in Vietnam.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] testorca 17 years ago

It seems that Bear and Blue grass have been watching too many bad war movies.. they seem to think that battles are only faught at night... news flash folks, that just isnt the case... The VC and NVA fought during day light hours just as much as at night...

Again, why don't you guys go down to the nearest VFW or VA and talk to some of the guys that were there... I'm sure they will straighten you guys out... and they may even pick up the bar tab...

[–] bluegrassdude5601 17 years ago

The book couldn't describe every single attack on every single base, so it divided its examples into three categories; one where a base was nearly overrun but held out (Nam Dong, 1964), one where a base conducted a successful defense (Loc Ninh, 1967), and one where a base was completely overrun (Lang Vei, 1968)

[–] supersvend 17 years ago

This movie is so bad. I guess the people that say this movie is realistic also think that the Rambo movies are realistic? Either that or they are joking! Just watch the one of the early scenes where they attack the VC's on the beach?? They are like ten against a hundred, no problem as long as you are an American soldier (in a movie), you don't even have to hit the ground, those commie-bullets can't hit you! I have respect for the ordinary American soldiers and the job they do, but I don't think that making movies like this is showing them respect! In fact it is just plain stupid, this movie is for the kids!

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Nyder 17 years ago

For those who claim this movie is "inaccurate" I suggest they read about the battle of Khe Sanh, it was essentially the same situation as this movie but on a larger and bloodier scale.

Also, this film is about an attack during the Tet Offensive, in which the standard Vietcong tactics of hit and run and guerilla warfare were discarded for all out assault.

[–] testorca 17 years ago

Bluegrass... every single Vietnam Vet I've spoken with says this is one of the most realistic movies about the war that they have seen... so, please, put your books away and go talk to someone that was THERE!!!

[–] walk929501 7 years ago

Agreed. The Vietnam vet I spoke to said that this was *the* most realistic Vietnam war movie he had seen. I wasn't there, but I trust a combat vet over some guy reading a book.

[–] guldkorv 17 years ago

*beep* my firend!
this movie potray what was really going on in Nam!

[–] The24thFoot 17 years ago

Despite what many think, the VC/NVA did not have the best officers around nor were they very good soldiers. They were brave and fearless but incredibly callous. They won only through sheer numbers and disregard for their own losses ... human wave charges depicted in the movie did indeed happen many times.

Though their were several scenes that were over the top, namely the guy who was fighting off the VC Bruce Lee style as hordes of NVA and VC surged into the base.

[–] BobbySimone86 15 years ago

I laugh at people who say this movie is horribly innacurate. R. Lee Ermey fought in Vietnam, he would not have made this movie if he thought it was crap. Also my dad who was in the Marines during Nam said this was the most accurate Vietnam movie along with Hamburger Hill. Yes the acting and attack scenes are not the greatest at times, but to say this movie is horrible is moronic. I will admit though that the hueys never being hit by all those AK rounds was prety dumb. If the movie's budget was bigger they would have put Cobras in place of those huey's; then it would have been realistic.

[–] sugar22 13 years ago

there could have been cobras, true, but the cobra was just introduced only a few months before Tet and the US Army probably used those cobras elsewhere in more important sectors than some random firebase. some soldiers preferred the huey gunships at times better than the cobra due to it's ability to circle around and lay down covering fire longer than a cobra strike, as well as the added ability to pick up people.

[–] Lokisgodhi 11 years ago

What drugs are you on?

In 77-78 when this film was being made Ermey was a struggling actor. This was his eighth, his first with a leading role. He'd have done any film so long as the check cleared and KHFMS unless the director specifically asked him for his opinion.

BobbySimone86 wrote:

"laugh at people who say this movie is horribly innacurate. R. Lee Ermey fought in Vietnam, he would not have made this movie if he thought it was crap."

[–] jnericsonx 8 years ago

No, that was a different movie-this one was made right around same time as Full Metal Jacket. Hell, he might have gotten this movie BECAUSE of that film.

[–] pcventures 15 years ago

Tet was an altogether different situation. It represented a sea change in how the war was being fought.
The stealthy VC were suddenly re-deployed more conventionally, and went for in-force broad daylight attacks. The VC command structure (to quote a book whose name escapes me) "believed their own propaganda" that this would trigger a popular uprising among formerly nonparticipating civilians and overwhelm the American occupiers. It didn't happen.
After several years of fighting a frustrating guerilla war, the Americans, although surprised initially, found themselves suddenly able to fight the war the way they wanted to. All of that pent-up anger came out, matched by the disciplined skill of experienced Army and Marine riflemen. The casualty ratios in most of the Tet-related battles were heavily skewed in the Americans' favor.
During the battle for Hue, it was noted that American Marines had to be dragged/begged/cajoled to an aid station, despite serious wounds, because they finally had their chance to strike back at an elusive enemy. Yes, they were essentially pinned down in Hue... but so were the VC.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] pcventures 14 years ago

LOL... well, I guess their budget didn't have room for artillery.

"...and Mrs. Taylor sure seems to use a lotta ice, whenever he's away."

[–] naois009 13 years ago

I think I saw at least 2 of what looked like 105's in various shots.

[–] sugar22 13 years ago

there were some mortar pits. perhaps the previous firebase commander sold them to get more drugs.

[–] megoobee 12 years ago

I wondered about that. It's my understanding that the main purpose of a firebase was to provide artillery support to the troops.

Similar to Apocalypse Now, this movie showed some of the darker sides of the war that normally gets sanitized.

I think the back story of Di Nardo was unnecessary though.

[–] ranger51262 9 years ago

I think maybe you were overrun by the books, if these VN vets are posting they were there and this is accurate, reading it out of someone else's book don't cut it

[–] pattersonbrendan-37207 9 years ago

It's just a cheesy exploitation movie that is about as realistic as John Wayne's The Green Berets but with extra gore and some interesting casting decisions. Don't forget director Brian Trenchard Smith gave us such wonders as Leprechaun 3 and Escape 2000 (my personal favourite) so would advise you take its approach to historical and military accuracy with a considerable pinch of salt / complete and utter suspension of disbelief. If your high school teacher really felt the need to big this up as the most authentic Vietnam film of all time - or whatever - then you may wish to question the educational standards of your particular seat of learning. All the best :)