MovieChat Forums > Lean on Me (1989) Discussion > things a principal can't do

things a principal can't do


There were quite a few things that happened in this movie that a principal can not do

1) a principal can not expel a student, yet Joe Clark expelled at least 300 kids the first day at that assembly. Of course, there weren't even close to 300 students on those risers, but a student can only be expelled by the Board of Education, and of course, the student also can have a lawyer at the hearing

2) a principal can not cancel a concert (the one at Lincoln Center)

3) a principal can not fire a teacher (Mrs. Elliott), and there was no just cause anyway. She got 'fired' mainly for not wanting to kiss is a**, but a decision to fire a teacher has to be done by the Board of Education, all he can do is recommend, and it never would have happened

4) a principal can not suspend a teacher (Mr. Darnell), for the same reason

5) a principal can not chain the doors, it is a violation of the fire law

6) "Call the Federal Government, tell them to get me more money" - I won't even comment on that one

7) Mrs. Barrett told the Mayor to appoint her to the School Board. This can not happen either, you have to be elected to serve on the School Board

8) in the last scene, Joe Clark just walked down the steps after being arrested. How on earth did that happen? Wouldn't the charges have had to be dropped first?

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Things a principal can do:

1) http://www.joeclarkspeaker.com/biography.htm<i>;
On a single day during his first week at Eastside, Clark expelled 300 students for fighting, vandalism, drug possession, profanity or abusing teachers. He explains, "If there is no discipline, there is anarchy. Good citizenship demands attention to responsibilities as well as rights."</i>

No, he can't put them on risers in front of an auditorium and expell them en masse, but he sure as hell got rid of about 300 students within the first week.

2) I have no clue why a principal wouldn't be able to cancel a school event if he felt such motivation to do so.

3) Truth.

4) Truth.

5) Just like it's a violation of the law in real life, it was illegal in the film. In fact, I do believe he was arrested for it.

6) I haven't the slightest idea why a public school couldn't *ask* for more federal funding, even if it isn't granted.

7) What does this have to do with what a principal can or cannot do?

8) He was released to calm down the students, and when he was arrested the mayor was still under the impression that acceptable passage rates were impossible and Joe Clark would lose his job. After they let him go to prevent a riot and subsequently recieved notice of the school's passing status, there was no reason for him to be detained any longer.

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Being a former Middle School Principal and High School Principal, I will say that he can do most of those things. Sure there would be resistance as depicted in the movie, but any good principal would do those things if necessary.
The ONLY thing he could not do - as shown in the movie - is chain the doors. Any principal dumb enough to do that, would be arrested and fired as the movie implied.

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Okay, I've been a lover of this movie since it was first released, so here's my take on all thesepoints:


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1) a principal can not expel a student, yet Joe Clark expelled at least 300 kids the first day at that assembly. Of course, there weren't even close to 300 students on those risers, but a student can only be expelled by the Board of Education, and of course, the student also can have a lawyer at the hearing

2) a principal can not cancel a concert (the one at Lincoln Center)

3) a principal can not fire a teacher (Mrs. Elliott), and there was no just cause anyway. She got 'fired' mainly for not wanting to kiss is a**, but a decision to fire a teacher has to be done by the Board of Education, all he can do is recommend, and it never would have happened

4) a principal can not suspend a teacher (Mr. Darnell), for the same reason



I think the one immportant fact to remember here is that Joe Clark's best friend was the superintendant, so he probably used that to his advantage and hada little more "pull" than a principal normally would.

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5) a principal can not chain the doors, it is a violation of the fire law


I think he already knew that, which is why he held that meeting going over his plan to quickly remove the chains if he had to. That meeting also revealed how he assigned certain people to unchain certain doors, which would get them open quicker.

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6) "Call the Federal Government, tell them to get me more money" - I won't even comment on that one


Yeah, I'm actually not too sure on this one. By him saying "more" money, you can probably assume he contacted them to try to get some funds to get the school back in shape in the first place.

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7) Mrs. Barrett told the Mayor to appoint her to the School Board. This can not happen either, you have to be elected to serve on the School Board.


I agree! However, this woman was just so aggressive and such a pain in the ass, I think it just got to the point where they just gave her what she wanted just to shut her up.

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8) in the last scene, Joe Clark just walked down the steps after being arrested. How on earth did that happen? Wouldn't the charges have had to be dropped first?


Absolutely! But the impression I always got from that scene was that I don't think he was just taking off. I always thought he just walked to the bottom of the stairs to bask in the adoration of his students. It always looked to me that he just stood at the bottom of the stairs and let all the students surround him.




But here's the one question I always had. How the hell could the fire chief get such a clear recording of Joe Clark's voice when he was in the closed door auditorium while the fore chief was hundreds of feet away down the hall?

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Let me touch on two of those.

7) Mrs. Barrett told the Mayor to appoint her to the School Board. This can not happen either, you have to be elected to serve on the School Board.

-The school board in Paterson was a New Jersey type I appointed school board, with its members appointed by the mayor.

As for the chief getting the recording, you can see he has 'black boxes' in both hands. He is holding the tape recorder against a handheld radio, which implies he is recording the broadcasted message.

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I suggest you read "Laying Down the Law" by Joe Picard. It is Joe Clar's story and he vividly explains how he was able to go beyond his delegated power to do things in which he didn't actually have the direct authority. A good leader does that. No, he didn't expel those students. He reassigned them to the auditorium and then to the library until alternative education programs were implemented. Then, the school board held the purse. There were several good programs that were enacted in the 70's. But, the school board refused the allotment for the funding and the programs were halted. Read the book please and it will all be clear to you.

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great reply, texas. thanks!

i am glad there is at least a biy of levity in this thread

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behold, sublime genius: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLPe0fHuZsc

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If someone has to "read the book" to clear things up in the movie then the movie failed miserably.

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Thank you for saying this. Whenever I hear someone defend a movie by saying you have to read the book, I avoid the movie. That's why it says "adapted screenplay" and not "documentary version of the book".

BTW, I was teaching in New York in the early 70s and there was no way a principal could get away with most of these things, esp. his treatment of the teachers in front of the students. How do you expect the students to respect the teachers when the principal treats them like dirt? And don't tell me times have changed; the teachers' unions were very powerful then, even more than now.

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If someone has to "read the book" to clear things up in the movie then the movie failed miserably.


That is one thing that CinemaSins talks about during their video "Conversations With Myself About Movies - Reading The Book"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j8v5Z6a25Q

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One of Joe Clark's students said on YouTube that the scene where he fires Mrs. Elliott like a lot of things in the movie was sensationalized:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBVXw_GeqIA&lc=Ugzymcoxha7kf_BoSRB4AaABAg

While it's true that the music teacher was let go and Mr. Clark could be loud and would do things in an unorthodox way, he wasn't rude or yell in anybody's faces like Morgan Freeman did in the movie.

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OP, the time was a bit different then, 30 years ago.

also, the situation was extreme.

and, regardless of what 'can't be done, that doesn't really mean CAN'T as much as 'if doone, then repercussions occur'

they could say 'mister X can't rob a store since it is illegal. but mister X may have the power to rob a store today, but then receive punishment as consequences.


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behold, sublime genius: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLPe0fHuZsc

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[deleted]

10. A principal can't call a student "baby."

My job is to inform, not persuade- Dan Rather

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10. A principal can't call a student "baby."


Back then a principal could do that.

Some of the things that have changed from back then are so sad. Such as what you've mentioned here.... and the fact that a teacher can no longer touch a student. If you will notice in the first scene, as Clark is walking around the room he touches several of his students.

THE RAP CRITIC:
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/rap-critic

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I wouldn't know seeing that this movie came out the year I was born..lol

It is amazing how things have changed over the years. I mean you just have some sick people out there, and some just trying to get a buck or two.

11. A principal can't bop a student on the head.

My job is to inform, not persuade- Dan Rather

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11. A principal can't bop a student on the head.


Yup, they could get away with that too! To the amusement of other students, as you can see in the movie. As long as the principal didn't bop the student hard enough to injure the child, it was OK. Especially a kid like Sams who knew that his mother would want to know WHY the teacher found it necessary to bop him in the head! Now, that Barrett woman, that's another story.... I can just see her starting a class action suit!

THE RAP CRITIC:
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/rap-critic

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As most have stated here, a principal can in fact do most of these things. The OP forgets that nearly all laws and policies related to public education are established by the local school board and the state legislature. This means the limits to a principal's authority, in most cases, varies widely from state to state, and even from school district to school district.

In some places, school board members are elected. In others, they are appointed. The number of school board members even varies by locale.

Expelling students and firing/suspending teachers are routine matters in public schools. Principals recommend to superintendents, who in turn recommend to school boards. Because they know they have limited knowledge of the educational environment and teaching, most smart school boards will not micro-manage and will almost always vote to support the recommendations of the superintendent.

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Very true. A principal can very well expel a student if they do something that the school board as deemed as something that can get you expelled. Like if a school has a zero tolerance policy on smoking on school grounds. If a student gets caught smoking they can very well be expelled in that case. They can appeal to the school board of course and get back into the school but that doesn't mean the principal can't do it in the first place.

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Clark had the board of education on his side to get this school sorted out.
That was the entire point of the film. Enough was enough.

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[deleted]


Keep in mind that the events the movie is based on, took place back in the 60s and not today. The educational system probably wasn't as strict back then.
Do not worry about tomorrow; tomorrow will worry about itself

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The events in the movie were based in the 80s. East side high had turned into a combat zone. As the film depicted, Clark was brought in with the mandate to "clean up the school" after several teachers suffered physical and sexual assaults.

Clark came in with a Shock and Awe approach, doing things like 300 expellings in his first week, firing most of the security and spending four years of security budget in the first six months, and spending a years worth of the mantaince budget cleaning up the school and using detention students as free labor to assist in the cleanup.

The mayor was a corrupt ass, and the Patterson fire chief at the time was a well known racist who had caught flack for allowing lower income areas to burn more (ordering "surround and drown" technique vs entry techniques) than higher income white areas.

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A principal also can't take a student to top of a building and order him to jump and kill himself (even if he was only trying to teach him a valuable lesson).

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