so, i saw this yrs ago. the other day i was at the video store with my friend, and i was like oh have u seen this. i was like, jennifer jason leigh gets f-ed to death in the end. is that true. do all those guys F her to death? thats all i really remember about the movie, and if she does get f-ed to death. i need to see it again. how many guys are involved in the gang bang?
shareshe does not, as you so bluntly put it, "get f-ed to death." she is in a drunken stupor, but the last few men who are hanging around waiting their turn are chased away by the boy with the motorcycle, who goes ballistic when he sees the woman of his dreams being violated in such a manner.
shareLeigh doesn't die. In the book she gets roughed up, chips a tooth, etc., but she doesn't die. I have no doubt that she became suicidal and WANTED to die, but she wasn't even granted that wish.
shareUh, Tralala(played by Leigh) gets more than a bit roughed up in the novel, she gets gangbanged by about 50 or 60 men and a broom handle shoved up her vagina. And it's never really stated whether she died from it or not, but it was pretty brutal.
Until on the Day when He says Rise only the flat-iron would come floating up.
In the only mis-step in an otherwise perfect film, Tralala (Leigh) does not die as she does in the book.
Hope this clears this up.
<< Uh, Tralala(played by Leigh) gets more than a bit roughed up in the novel, she gets gangbanged by about 50 or 60 men and a broom handle... >>
uggh.
They also put out cigarettes on her chest. (BLAGH! Why did I watch this movie and get reminded of the book!!!)
No she wasn't f ed to death. LOL She lived. And she was not raped either she edged them on to do it. Watch the movie you'll see.
share"No she wasn't f ed to death. LOL She lived. And she was not raped either she edged them on to do it"
Oh, so it was a suicide attempt? Wasn't she just looking for attention and maybe some affection?
Whether she edged them to do it or not, a rape is still a rape.
BTW it's a brilliant film.
You... are... my... lucky lucky lucky star...
This might sound sexist, and as much as it pains me to say it, I don't think I would call it rape. At no point does she tell them to stop or even look as though she is in pain. Drunk, suicidal, mentally unwell, yes, but forced or raped? No.
Once again may I stress that I am in no way a sexist person. I actually found the last scene brutal, extremely unpleasant and sickening, so much so that I am ashamed to admit that I had to look away briefly at one point. I really hope that in a real situation there would be someone who would step in and prevent something like this happening, unlike the characters in the movie. Letting it happen is almost as bad as taking part in my eyes.
Ironically, this isn't even ironic at all.
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I don’t believe I would call it “rape,” either. Tralala is a screwed-up person, just like everyone else in the book. After I finished the novel, I felt that it was a horrible story about horrible people. (Which is NOT to say it wasn’t good.)
I don’t think she was “f-ed to death” in either the book or the film. She was pretty brutally gangbanged, lost some teeth, had a broom handle shoved inside her, but she didn’t die. She probably wanted to, though.
I do remember that someone “rescued” Tralala in the film, which definitely did not occur in the book. I wonder why they did that? To make Tralala more likeable, or pitiful? In the novel she was a completely unlikeable, reprehensible, obnoxious, unintelligent malcontent. When she wasn’t hooking, she was robbing people. Certainly nobody was in love with her, aka “the woman of his dreams.” Rescuing her reduces the brutality of her character, which, I think was the point of her in the first place. I walked away thinking it was a very unsympathetic look at some very unsympathetic people.
As far as JJL being exploited…come on. She’s a gutsy lady, it’s been proven time and time again. I don’t think she does anything she doesn’t want to do. She exploited herself because she believed in the character. Great actors, who believe in what they are doing, tend to do that now and then. I think she was absolutely perfect.
Hmm, it's an interesting moral/judgmental issue you pose: was she raped?? The issue is this: ask yourself what the potential outcome would be of having sex with say, a drunk girl from your dorm vs. a drunk "professional," like Jennifer Jason Leigh was in the film. The fact of the matter is, if you did so with the college girl--or a date, or most women--you'd probably be woken up the next morning by police knocking on your door with a date rape charge.
Now, I don't know what the reality is with ladies of the night, but I'm sure it's a legitimate, recurring risk, that a john could have sex with them and not pay (not really rape, just bad business), or rape and/or murder them. It likely comes with the territory, and is a risk that these women have to live with. You are right, she didn't exactly protest. And let's face it, morally most courts or people probably wouldn't hold her--or the opinion/safety/judgment of most any prostitute in particularly high regard.
But still, the point is, whatever walk of life someone is from, if someone is drunk, high or otherwise impaired and you're having sex with them, whether they're shouting "rape!" at the time, they COULD potentially counter-argue that you did do so once they sober up. I don't think any of us would argue that the--ahem--"gangbang" in this film was particularly erotic, that Tralala fully knew what she was doing, or that she would be agreeing to do so if she was completely sober. True, she may have been amoral--even more so in the book--in that she'd repeatedly used her sexuality/trade to seduce and rob unsuspecting men, and some people may argue that she had some seriously bad karma/"had it coming." Nonetheless, under her impaired conditions, I still have to call it a rape.
And at the very least, she IS a prostitute, so trading sex for money is her trade. So naturally, she'd have to ask herself the next morning: who am I to try selling the cow if I just gave away all that milk for free??
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You do bring up an few interesting points phasmatrope, however...it's still not rape.
There are quite often stories in the news of women that had consensual sex...but cried "rape" the following day. This is a huge grey area. It does happen a lot. Some women call rape as they have reget over the sex later, some do it for "revenge". Of course, some are genuinely raped too.
However, the fact does remain Tralala consented to the act. Drunk, drugged up, etc really should not come into it. Or even the fact she is a prostitute should not make a difference.
I mean, what if you met a girl, had a few drinks, go back to her place and have consensual sex. A few days later you are arrested for "rape"?
If a drunk drvier, who drives as a profession killed a person...they are not let off as they were drunk and a professional driver.
I think the people that endugled in sex with Tralala may have been "moralisticaly wrong", the way they took adavntage of this girl in the state she was in. But that is not illegal in itself, just moralisticaly wrong.
But it's still not rape.
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he is God.
"But it's still not rape".
Given Tralala's extremely messed-up state of mind at that point, I would query how much consent she was giving.
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How come no one bothers to ask if any of the drunk men in the bar were raped by her? If they are all intoxicated, why is it only she could be a victim?
Double standard if you ask me.
I don't feel she was raped either. Was it horrible and disturbing watching all those men one after the other having sex with her? Absolutely. Such a disturbing scene, but I can't call it rape. Tralala is the one who took her top off and jumped from man to man at the bar egging them on. She was feeling jealous and lonely because the other women in the bar all had someone and she didn't, so being the desperate and insecure person she is, she decided she needed to be the center of attention and that's why she took her top off and pretty much begged them to have sex with her.
She wanted to feel desirable and wanted, but she knew what she was getting herself into. Tralala knows the type of men she was dealing with. They're drunk, ignorant, rowdy men who don't have the best moral character by any means, so what did she expect?
Never once did I see her resist or say "no". Okay, so she was drunk, so were those men. Should they be excused as well because they were drunk and not in their "right mind". Sorry as disgusting as their behavior was, she brought it on herself.
I mean really, was I supposed to feel bad when that young boy came to her rescue and started crying for everyone to leave her alone? Sorry, I did not feel bad. I thought it was pathetic and very sad how she allowed herself to be used and abused like that, but SHE brought it all on herself.
On top of that she was an obnoxious, lying theif who used people. She was very unlikeable and I didn't feel sympathy for her or for any of the characters in this movie.
"And when the groove is dead and gone, love survives, so we can rock forever" RIP MJ
I felt bad for that boy who loved her as he had to see that.
How many people did she rip off and vinny knock out, what if one of them didn't wake up from having a bottle bashed into his head. I bet the guys who put out cigarettes out on her chest was the one she ripped off.
I wonder
Spoiler alert for them spoil sports out there! Y'all like spoiled milk, stop crying over it!