Would it be better if this was in all sports? So for example, the Chiefs automatically get to the super bowl this season and get to skip the playoffs? Or I guess they would have to go directly to the conference championship game so the rest of the AFC teams can battle it out for the right to go to the super bowl
shareNo it would not be better.
It would not work in real life because people just wouldn't enter such a competition.
Take Mike Barnes for instance:
He fights his way to the final. Now what if he picked up an injury on the way that prevented him from fighting in the final? Does the defending champion automatically win without having any fights whatsoever?
It's already argued that it is unfair on Barnes as he will naturally have tired throughout the day, but the defending champion hasn't needed to exert himself at all.
I totally agree. The whole tournament was unfair to Mike Barnes.. he was the victim. Whinielle rode into the tournament like an emperor all proud that he only needed to fight once. Since poor Barnes had been through a gauntlet he accidentally got distracted and let Whinielle steal a point! Then Whinielle had the audacity to jump for joy at “winning” even though he did no such thing.
shareThe whole tournament was unfair to everyone else who entered. In real life it would have been boycotted and had no competitors.
The trouble for this movie though is the studios wanted a return to the tournament. It would have worked better without it.
Maybe it could have ended with Barnes and Whinielle arriving at the tournament but before entering they get into an argument and brawl in the parking lot Rocky 5 style.
Then (just like what was intended in Rocky 5) Whinielle would be killed in the fight.
That wouldn't have worked in a karate kid movie. Nor would it have worked the other way around where he kills Barnes. Nobody gets killed in these movies.
This movie is unsatisfactory from all sides.
Side A. Daniel is a bigger wimp now than in the first movie, yet he came through a fight to the death against a guy who had trained all of his life in Miyagi do karate. Somehow though he's afraid of Barnes who seems to have his life. Not realistic in the slightest.
Side B. Barnes loses to this wimp who he is basically owning to the point where he can mess around and afford to lose points.
Side C. Anybody who has experience of competition would know that Barnes should have been disqualified early on. If not Daniel should have been pulled from the fight for crying. And last but not least, this competition would never fly with a rule like putting the defending champion straight to the final. Notice how no such rule exists in the Cobra Kai series.
Mr. Miyagi: Mike Barnes!
Terry Silver: What was that?
Mr. Miyagi: Mike Barnes, there's a boy out here
wishin' to speak with you.
Mr. Miyagi: Mike Barnes!
John Kreese: Barnes, you know who that is, huh?
Mike Barnes: Yeah, I know who that is.
Snake: Mike, you need some help?
Mike Barnes: No, snake.
Jessica: Look what's in the street.
Mike Barnes: Whinielle, what are you doin' here?
You oughta be celebratin'.
Whinielle: I'm challenging you to a REAL fight!
Any time, any place, anywhere.
Barnes: Fight?
Whinielle: That's right.
Barnes: You're comin' here with this old creep
askin' if I wanna throw hands with you again?
Barnes: Is that what this is about?
Whinielle: Yeah. And I ain't nobody's slave! Nobody's karate kid! Now are you accepting
the challenge or are you yellow?
Terry Silver: He has no class. Come on, Mike.
Hey, he has no class! Come on.
Mike Barnes: Hey, it ain't him. You wanna
shoot some eightball or somethin'?
Whinielle: Hey! I ain't through talkin' with you yet!
Mike Barnes: Look, I ain't got
no more to say to you, OK?
Terry Silver: I wanted good things for you Whinielle.
Whinielle: The hell you did. You're in it for money! I'm tired of people callin' me flaccid!
Terry Silver: You thought I was in this
for the money, Whinielle?
Terry Silver: I tried to teach you desire devotion, and discipline. You don't know it,
but you got a deception here (gestures toward Miyagi).
Terry Silver: This guy was usin' you for the bait.
He wants to get you and Barnes in the ring again.
Terry Silver: He wants to keep teaching you fake karate so you can be his household slave!
Terry Silver: He don't care about you
and he don't care about me neither.
Mr. Miyagi: Come on. Enough of the fantasy.
Let's talk reality.
Mr. Miyagi: Mike Barnes, are you prepared
to accept Whinielle's challenge?
Mike Barnes: Whinielle...
Whinielle: Hey! I would have taken you any time!
Jessica: You're a piece of garbage Whinielle.
Whinielle: This ain't none of your business.
Jessica: None of my business?
Mike Barnes: Come on, babe. Forget it.
Jessica: Terry Silver spit blood for you,
put you ahead of his own business.
Jessica: And you bring this rat bum Miyagi
around here? Kill his dignity? Terry Silver made you your shot.
He's the real champ. You're just a joke. Get out of here before I break your face.
(Whinielle punches Jessica)
Mike Barnes: Jessica! Are you ok?
Jessica: He shoulda never left New Jersey...
Mike Barnes: You knocked her down.
Why don't you knock me down?
Mr. Miyagi: No, in the ring. Whinielle only fights
in the ring! Let's get outta here.
Mike Barnes: My ring's outside.
Whinielle: Yeah? Let's do it.
Reporter: Let's go live.
John Kreese: He's a punk, Mike.
Mr. Miyagi: He's a karate fighter. You a kata fighter... don't be a damn fool.
Whinielle: You don't own me! You don't own me! Nobody does! I want my respect.
Mike Barnes: Well, come and get it. Come on, Whinielle.
(Mike Barnes quickly beats Whinielle to the ground with an expert combination of blows QUICKSILVER!)
Terry Silver: I cared about you, Whinielle! You know that? You were supposed to learn honesty, compassion, and fair play! You blew it! You...
Mr. Miyagi: Lucky punch. But I told you
never to fight a karate fight. Now let's go home so you can paint my house.
You got the names the wrong way around. Lol!
Off Nessie hunting
Take Mike Barnes for instance:
He fights his way to the final. Now what if he picked up an injury on the way that prevented him from fighting in the final? Does the defending champion automatically win without having any fights whatsoever?
And what do you think Whinielle's reaction would have been had he been declared the winner without any fights?
Back from Nessie hunting.
I think his reaction would have been the same or more animated after what Barnes put him through to enter. In fact he would have probably collapsed laughing as well.
Not to mention as well Daniel could have watched Barnes as the vast majority of athletic's do and see if there's any weakness they can exploit, for example boxer a can watch boxer b and sees boxer b doesn't protect his body as much as his head, so boxer a knows to attack his head and when he starts to protect it, go for his face. But Barnes doesn't have chance.
shareYou've got that, and the fact Barnes could have picked up an injury as well. On the other hand though, Daniel doesn't get a warm up fight. In Karate competitions in general the first fight is often the most awkward. Once that is out of the way you tend to relax a bit and your confidence builds.
shareTrue although it could be argued that Daniel was feeling confident because Barnes most likely would be knackered where as Daniel was feeling fresh.
shareI have never known a Karateka be tired by the time of the final. Barnes was a seasoned fighter so would be expected to be fit under normal circumstances. Add in to that Silver would have made sure he was at peak for the tournament. So can't imagine he was. If so, no wonder he lost.
shareThat was always the silliest thing about this movie. I get the feeling that Macchio didn't want to do too many fight scenes and this idea was thrown in as a concession.
shareThat makes sense considering how out of shape he was during filming.
shareOh yeah. I thought this the very first time I watched it when it came out.
shareWouldn't work with team sports. They change up the players all the time. A Superbowl winning team can be totally disbanded by the next year.
shareWould probably be better as a viewer, maybe not as a competitor.
Using snooker as an example Ronnie osulivan won this year's world championships, most snooker fans prefer to watch him play I think, so yeah the best against the best of the rest, sounds good to me.
The rule change was orchestrated by Mr Silver to ensure a Barnes/LaRusso final. Daniel was unlikely to advance beyond the early rounds so Silver used his clout as a sponsor to adjust the rules.
shareI agree 👍
shareIf that's true then you have just admitted (after all these years) that Silver had the referee in his pocket....and Barnes still lost!!!
shareSilver’s influence did not extend to the referee. Unlike the black belt-stealing Miyagi, he followed a code of honesty, compassion and fair play.
On the contrary, Pat E Johnson was clearly on Miyagi’s payroll. From overlooking Daniel’s tardiness before the ‘84 final to allowing illegal crane kicks and kata, his record as an official was littered with inconsistencies.
Silver’s administrative influence did not extend to the referee. Unlike the black belt-stealing Miyagi, he followed a code of honesty, compassion and fair play.
^^^^
You can't take back what you said. The referee (Pat Johnson) would be the man who had to give the OK for the rule change seeing as he was the man in charge.
On the contrary, Pat E Johnson was clearly on Miyagi’s payroll. From overlooking Daniel’s tardiness before the ‘84 final to allowing illegal crane kicks and kata, his record as an official was littered with inconsistencies.
^^^^
Nice try, but another fail on all levels. You've already had your nose bloodied on these matters so I'm surprised you are still crying about it.
As shown in Cobra Kai, there was a board of directors who decided on the tournament rules during their annual meeting. The referees were not invited to participate. That would be like the referees of the NBA or EPL making major administrative decisions on behalf of the their respective leagues. Given your supposed experience, you should know better than to suggest such nonsense.
Johnson was a crooked substance abuser whose body language suggested he was lost in the haze of an opium trip. When Barnes appealed for him to stop Daniel’s kata routine, Snake correctly pointed out that “he’s hallucinating”. Miyagi, perhaps the top supplier in the Valley, obviously had him under his control.
As shown in Cobra Kai....you mean 30 odd years later after Pat Johnson is no longer around. Pat Johnson was in charge of the competition as shown at the beginning of KK3 where he left a message for Kreese about non payment of fees.
Given my experience I know exactly how this worked in the 80's. There was a guy back then (still around now actually) called Doug James who was not only the tournament organiser for 4 different competitions in the north of England, he was also chief referee.
So your pointing out of my flaws is...well, flawed.
Pat Johnson was in charge of the competition as shown at the beginning of KK3 where he left a message for Kreese about non payment of fees.
I know exactly how this worked in the 80's. There was a guy back then (still around now actually) called Doug James who was not only the tournament organiser for 4 different competitions in the north of England, he was also chief referee.
He played a secretarial role when he was not officiating.
^^^^
Oh. And you know this how?
The head of an organization would not be tasked to make that call.
^^^^
The head of the association would deal with the chief instructor of each organization/club on a personal level. That still stands today
The UK and US have different organizational models.
Mainstream karate as we know it came from the US service men bringing it back from Japan. The UK model was based upon the US model. But then you would know this if you knew what you were talking about.
You’re out of your depth, wasting everyone’s time with your nonsensical ramblings. The purpose of these boards is to celebrate Cobra Kai karate, John Kreese’s karate. You’re outmatched, like Mike Atherton facing Curtly Ambrose.
shareWhat you call nonsensical ramblings, others refer to as 'the facts'. The purpose of these boards are to discuss the karate kid movies and not your fantasies.
You are outmatched, much like Simple Jack from Tropic Thunder facing Einstein.
It's similar to boxing, though, where the defending champ waits for a challenger to "work his way up" to a title match.
shareApart from boxing, it also happens in chess. The strongest players in the world, excluding the world champion, compete in the Candidates Tournament. The winner of the candidates tournament gets to challenge the world champion for the title.
There is something dramatic about the winning candidate challenging the current champion. It doesn't mean it's a good idea in most sports, though. As others have said, in a team sport it makes less sense, because a team may change a lot from one year to the other. Also, economically it could make more sense to have the current champion play a lot of matches, instead of going directly to the final.
It makes no sense whatsoever in a knockout competition.
shareSo why did Whinielle agree to enter the tourney under this asinine rule? Why didn’t he insist upon fighting his way through legit?
shareBecause the script called for it NRC123.
shareHave YOU ever won a tournament WA?
shareAlways pictured Wears as a middle aged man beating up a class full of children like Kramer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t8xwpW8gJQ
Fucking hell, replying to yourself again.
To answer your question, YES.
You won then? Came in 1st place beating everyone else? I demand proof.
shareI won more than one competition. As for you demanding proof, who are you to demand proof?
Just as a side note, you don't win by beating everyone else. You win by winning all your fights.
So you never were champion of a tournament?
shareCan't you read?
I won more than one as I said in my last post to you.
Dicksplash!
So you were THE champion of a tournament more than once? Please confirm the tournaments and dates... this claim is highly suspect and needs to be verified.
shareAdd a description of the final match.
shareHow can YOU verify this. You have no access to these records. Add a description, why? Just so you can say you don't believe me? I know you don't believe me. I couldn't care less. You didn't believe me on my refereeing qualifications.
Try harder. You are not very good at this.