The thing regardless of whether it was one day or two days Indy and Henry somehow managed to get across Europe with no explanation in the same amount of time that it took the Nazis to (who had planes) therefore even if it wasn't the next day it still remains a plot hole, even though the film certainly implies it was the next day. It would make sense that it was the next day considering Donovan and Elsa would immediately go to Hatay as soon as they found out where the grail was. We see them stranded in the middle of freaking nowhere then the very next time we see them they have traveled almost 2000 miles, that's a major issue.
As for Bruce there is no reason to think that the village would not have given a guy who was clearly stranded a ride to the nearest port, embassy, or wherever so he could get back to his home country, considering it was never established that the village was loyal to Bane. It is logical that the village could have helped him, the people claiming Bruce got back to Gotham with no explanation need to prove the village wouldn't have helped him and not just throw out empty speculation. Haters of TDKR also love to try to shift their burden of proof, they are the ones stating that Bruce got back to Gotham with no explanation (in a hell of a lot more time that it took Indy and Henry) but since they claim it's a plot hole they have to prove that the village didn't help him therefore since they can't prove it they haven't proven their case that Bruce got back with no explanation. As for Henry and Indy it was clear that they were in enemy territory, it would have been beyond idiotic for them to risk asking someone for help in a country whose army was actively hunting them down, the Nazis definitely would have killed anyone who helped Indy and Henry so even if someone wasn't loyal to the Nazis they wouldn't have helped them out of fear. Regardless of whether anyone nearby would or would not have helped him is a non sequitur, Indy and Henry had a reason to not trust anyone living in the nearby area so therefore it would be illogical for them to ask them for help. Also I'd like to point out that some people love to play the victim when they get boxed into a corner and defeated by logic, it's quite interesting.
- It took Bruce 23 days to make it back to Gotham
- There was clearly a village nearby that could have easily helped him
- It was established that he was able to move around the world with ease and it was established that he has the ability to blend in with his surroundings which wouldn't make stowing away on a plane or boat too hard
- Indy and Henry travel thousands of miles in a day
- They were literally stranded in the middle of nowhere in hostile territory with the enemy actively searching for them.
- It was never established that either of them had the ability to move around the world with ease nor that they had ninja abilities.
Overall, TDKR has nothing to do with this discussion and it's odd someone would bring it up, even if TDKR has problems (which it clearly doesn't) that doesn't excuse the many problems of LC
TDKR is a relatively flawless movie, LC is a godawful piece of garbage.
"the film certainly implies it was the next day,"
sunrise does not by default mean next day; it just means time has passed and now it is going be a scene taking place in the morning. The burden of proof here is on you to prove that sunrise by default implies one day has passed (I am sure bible thumpers are going to love you contrived explanation and proof you try to conjure up here)
"that it was the next day considering Donovan and Elsa would immediately go to Hatay "
Mable but it would take time to transport the Nazi squadron they had. You don't move that many people and supplies in a day, especially since there was war going on and you are a hostile force. It is just insane and devoid of any logic to assume only one day took place and there is literally zero proof of this claim.
"no reason to think that the village would not have given a guy who was clearly stranded a ride to the nearest port, embassy, or wherever so he could get back to his home country,"
There is no indication that they would or if there was even people there. baseless assumption. You don't seem to understand how the burden of proof works. You are the one making the claim here and I am pointing out the hypocrisy in your claim (burden of proof falls on you, idiot).
" it would have been beyond idiotic for them to risk asking someone for help"
why would they ask for help when they could steal a car? they already did it once, it can be safely assumed they would do it again. Burden of proof is on you to prove they have no way of getting to Hatay in less than a day; it is only an 8 hour drive and they didn't need to cross any bodies of water. it is a straight drive with roads (even in the 1930 there was roads). Unlike in Dark knight rises in which he is clearly not in the U.S. or canada. Can we assume he was in Mexico? Maybe if it was Mexico he could get back to gothem in 23 days but how would he get across the border without identification on without the media attention?
"- Indy and Henry travel thousands of miles in a day"
it is exactly 2000 miles from Berlin to Hatay; that is an 8 hour drive. and they would have been much closer based on how long they traveled on the Zeppelin (it was not 4 minutes as you baselessly claim). So at worse they were 6 or so hours drive away.
"They were literally stranded in the middle of nowhere in hostile territory with the enemy actively searching for them."
They stole one car already that day; why can't it be assumed they would do that again? Burden of proof is on you jackass
" It was never established that either of them had the ability to move around the world with ease nor that they had ninja abilities."
doesn't take ninja skills for Indy to punch someone and steal their car.
"Overall, TDKR has nothing to do with this discussion"
Again your main gripe with Last Crusade so far has been this 'plot hole' and the micky mouse joke. If it is a plot hole in LC then it is an even more blatant plot hole in DKR; you can't have it both ways. It is more egregious in Rises but the situations both heroes were in are very, very similar; only Indy and Henry only had about an 8 hour drive away (at worse); Bruce we have no idea how far or what resources he would use to cross into another country by modern standards.
"TDKR is a relatively flawless movie, LC is a godawful piece of garbage."
Why, because you say so? prove it douche, you have neither proved TDKR is flawless nor have your proved LC is garbage. If anything they are about equally flawed films.
The thing is a sunrise definitely implies the next day, and there is really no indication that a lot of time has passed in between Henry and Indy being stranded and Donovan/Elsa arriving in Hatay, in fact as previously established Donovan/Elsa would have immediately gone to Hatay after discovering the map so there's really nothing in the film to indicate that a lot of time has passed meaning Indy and Henry somehow made it thousands of miles with no transportation in a very short amount of time. Regardless of the amount of time they arrived as quickly as the Nazis did which is ludicrous and this remains a plot hole.
It really wouldn't have taken that much time for the Nazis to make it over there, it's quite simple actually, they get on a plane and go there, Indy and Henry however it seems walked the thousand some miles and anyone who thinks that it would take just as long to fly than to walk needs to be lobotomized.
But the thing is haters of TDKR claim that Bruce making it to Gotham is a plot hole therefore they need to prove that the village would not have helped him beyond a reasonable doubt, I have yet to see that evidence so therefore there is no justification in saying Bruce couldn't have made it back. More baseless assumptions on the part of TDKR haters. I also see no evidence that Indy and Henry stole a car, anyone who says they did is engaging in fan fiction. It is also not an 8 hour drive, going 60 mph (in this imaginary car) it would have taken them multiple days considering they would have to stop and ask for directions frequently. The force doesn't exist in this universe so they can't use it to guide them, but none of that matters considering there is no evidence they stole a car, yeah it's still a plot hole in LC. It is not however in TDKR because the film gave him 23 days to get back and knowing what we know about Bruce that isn't an issue for him, plus there was a nearby village that easily could have helped him (unlike the imaginary car).
Some even claim that to travel 2000 miles it only would have taken 8 hours in an imaginary car but that would have required them to travel 250 mph which is nonsense. There is also no evidence that they stole a car so therefore that cannot be proposed as a reason, since there is no explanation it does remain a plot hole but again anyone who paid attention during the course of The Dark Knight Trilogy would know it is not a plot hole in that case.
"The thing is a sunrise definitely implies the next day,"
Proof? I say it only implies time has passed and it is a new day; not necessarily the next day.
"there is really no indication that a lot of time has passed in between Henry and Indy being stranded and Donovan/Elsa arriving in Hatay,"
okay, maybe it was 2 days. It could have even been 1 day; they Hatay is only an 8 hour drive from Berlin. Last time I checked there are 24 hours in a day. and they were much closer than Berlin.
" Indy and Henry somehow made it thousands of miles with no transportation"
less than 2000 miles and do cars not exist in Europe in the 1930? motorcycles? It is a freaking 7 hour drive at worse. dude, you are freaking just impervious to reason and evidence. incredible.
"Bruce making it to Gotham is a plot hole "
Maybe not a plot hole per-say but it certainly stretches believably; especially given the adherence to reality the rest of the series feigned.
" I also see no evidence that Indy and Henry stole a car, anyone who says they did is engaging in fan fiction"
They literally just stole a car while trying to escape the plans. That happened in that very scene. What the hell are you talking about.
"It is also not an 8 hour drive,"
Sorry did the math wrong. it is a 33 hour drive from Berlin to Iskenderun. but they were definitely much closer than Berlin since they were on the Zeppelin for at least a couple of hours hence them sitting at a table eating and drinking.
"in this imaginary car"
Why is it imaginary, they literally just stole one car in the previous scene; why is it wrong to assume they would not do that again?
"it would have taken them multiple days considering they would have to stop and ask for directions frequently"
Wow; that is assuming they didn't know the way to get there nor basic directions. So asking for directions every few hundred miles takes a one day drive and turns it to multiple days? How many days does it take to ask for direction
"n TDKR because the film gave him 23 days to get back and knowing what we know about Bruce that isn't an issue for him"
23 being on the other side of the planet with no ID (and also the media does not find out)? No that is definitely an issue. Batman can't fly and doesn't have super speed. but the biggest issue is we just don't know where the pit is. If it is in Asia; there is no way he gets back to Gotham in 23 days, no way not without some ID and being able to take a plane.
" plus there was a nearby village that easily could have helped him "
Where is the proof anyone was in the village? Where is the proof anyone would help him?
"(unlike the imaginary car)."
dude Indy literally just stole a car in the previous scene. there is more than one car in Europe you know. WTF?
It's quite strange that no matter how many times you explain that the sunrise implies the next day and that Donovan would have gone to Hatay as quickly as possible it just doesn't get through to some people, that and the fact that even if they were correct it wouldn't matter because Indy/Henry made it there in the same amount of time it took the Nazis and they did not have any transportation. They even continue to claim it's only an 8 hour drive to make it 2000 miles but that would require them to travel at 250 mph, yeah I don't think so. With what we know about Bruce however it is well within reason that he could make it back to Gotham as he has ninja training and was able to make it around the world with no problem even before he received said ninja training, so in the rules established in Batman Begins what happens in TDKR is perfectly consistent, the same cannot be said for LC. These people even continue to claim Indy/Henry stole a car yet can't provide any evidence of said car, it's rather odd. Plus google map didn't exist back in 1938 so they definitely would have had to stop frequently to find out where they were, how to get to Hatay in their made up car.
Some of these people also need to learn how a burden of proof works, if you are going to claim that Bruce couldn't have made it back to Gotham in 3 weeks then you need to be able to prove the village DIDN'T help them, since I've seen no proof that the village wouldn't help them then I reject the assertion that Bruce couldn't have made it back, this is 2nd grade logic so it's quite odd that someone would be confused by this. But then again these are the same people who think invisible cars just magically appear out of the ground LOL
" that the sunrise implies the next day "
Proof? No wrong it implies time has passed and it is a NEW day; it could mean the next day but it does not mean it IS the next day.
"Donovan would have gone to Hatay as quickly as possible"
sure they just had the rolls royce all ready to go. sure.
"They even continue to claim it's only an 8 hour drive to make it 2000 miles but that would require them to travel at 250 mph"
Outright lie; I already corrected myself on this, liar. it would be 33 hours from Berlin to Hatay; but they were likely closer that.
Some of these people also need to learn how a burden of proof works, if you are going to claim that Indy and Henry couldn't have made it to Hatay in an undisclosed amount of time then you need to prove they were incapable of stealing a car or finding some other form of transportation. Hypocrite.
"since I've seen no proof that the village"
You have no proof that villagers even exist; a village can be deserted. What language do they speak there? what if none of them speak English? This assumption Bruce got help form unshown villagers is just asinine and without one bit of EVIDENCE. You made this claim that he got help. Burden of proof is on you for this.
"this is 2nd grade logic so it's quite odd that someone would be confused by this"
don't you dear use the word logic; nothing you have ever said has been inspired by logic; this is blasphemy as far as I am concerned.
" same people who think invisible cars just magically appear out of the ground"
WTF are you talking about. in 1935 there was 300 cars per 1000 people in Europe. Cars existed in large numbers by the 1930 jackass. They would find one within about 5 miles give or take
"clearly explain that it doesn’t even matter if the sunrise implied the next day or not"
What are you serious; that is is the basis of your entire claim of it being a plot hole. My goodness; this is like saying "god exists" then when proven to be a false claim that is not provable they say "it doesn't matter if god exists or not". Yes it does matter that is the basis of your argument that they could not travel from where they were to where they got in that amount of time. And you have the audacity to claim I don't understand logic, you couldn't even define it without google. Your concession is noted
" clearly their elementary school teachers"
your concession is noted and your ad hominem is dismissed.
"Donovan would have just chilled out and given Indy a chance to get to Hatay"
So you are claiming Donovan and the Nazi's had the rolls royce on standby in Hatay for when they arrived?
"despite the fact that he knew where the grail was and had the map, very odd"
Doesn't matter he did not go there alone, he went with a Nazi squadron; that takes time to move them during war time without them being attacked. Logic, use it sometime please for the love of god.
"amount of time Indy and Henry spent in that blimp"
Your claim was they were only on the blimp for about 4 minutes. I proved this false by pointing out they were at a dinner table eating and drinking which suggests many minutes passed if not hours. Unless you think the first think they did after take off was get a table. Logic. USE IT.
"invisible car "
300 cars per 1000 people in Europe at that time. They could a car fast.
"can go 250 mph"
I already acknowledged multiple times that I was wrong on the math and that is was 33 hours from Berlin to Hatay. You concession is noted and your lie is dismissed.
"I guess when you get owned mentally people just make stuff up."
You concession is noted; your false claim of "owning me" is dismissed.
"they refuse to acknowledge the village that is clearly visible when Bruce exits the pit"
Another lie, I acknowledge the village was visible; but no people were shown. You refuse to acknowledge there is no way of knowing who if anyone was at the village.
"it’s been established Bruce can speak multiple languages"
Oh, so are we to assume he can speak ALL languages? I am Filipino by ethnicity. The Philippines has over 10,000 dialects alone. Logic, use it sometime. what a ridiculous assertion.
"gain they just make the rules up as they go to keep their heads above water."
seriously, you just made up rules about Bruce being able to speak multiple languages and 'therefore' can speak the language of the unseen villagers. The level of logic bending and assumption here is just crazy high.
"entertaining to watch their temper tantrums"
Not as entertaining as seeing you wiggle your way through one hypocritical statement ridiculous attempts at logic; like a tiny little worm.
"A) it wouldn’t make the problems of LC go away"
True; but I am not claiming it is NOT a problem in LC; you are claiming it is not a problem in Dark KNight Rises and I am simply pointing out how hypocritical and full of crap you are.
" there is enough evidence and logic that can connect Bruce escaping the pit"
false claims does not equal evidence; for either film. I have made not one assumption based on zero evidence you have. big diference.
"his invisible car that sprouts from the ground and goes 250 mph they keep talking about"
300 cars per 100 people in Europe in 1938; look it up, it is a fact. And I already admitted I did the math wrong. Your concession is noted your lie for the fourth time is dismissed.
What’s even more odd is even after you clearly explain that it doesn’t even matter if the sunrise implied the next day or not they will still argue that non sequitur , clearly their elementary school teachers did a horrible job teaching them basic logic. What’s further proof is they actually think Donovan would have just chilled out and given Indy a chance to get to Hatay (which would have taken at least a year considering as far as what the film tells us they had to have walked) despite the fact that he knew where the grail was and had the map, very odd. Not only that but refuse to concede their epic failure in math even after they’ve been debunked and won’t acknowledge that the amount of time Indy and Henry spent in that blimp was the amount of time they took having that cringe worthy, poorly written, pathetic excuse of an emotional scene (the amount of time they were in the blimp was definitely less than 20 minutes). It’s hilarious that LC is apparently over their head. They will even go on and on about this invisible car that can go 250 mph even though the film gives no indication of such a thing existing, I guess when you get owned mentally people just make stuff up. What’s even more pathetic is they refuse to acknowledge the village that is clearly visible when Bruce exits the pit and that it’s been established Bruce can speak multiple languages, but again they just make the rules up as they go to keep their heads above water. But what is the most obvious sign that they are getting dominated is when they start using profanity and pitching a fit like a toddler, but it’s entertaining to watch their temper tantrums . Ultimately the best word to describe these people is pathetic
Again this comparison with TDKR doesn’t make a whole lot of sense because: A) it wouldn’t make the problems of LC go away and B) there is enough evidence and logic that can connect Bruce escaping the pit to his return to Gotham that is if you pay attention, the same cannot be said for Indy teleporting across Europe or using his invisible car that sprouts from the ground and goes 250 mph they keep talking about
Again they don’t understand what a burden of proof is, if they are going to insist the village was empty they need to prove it yet they don’t, very pathetic. And even though it was firmly established Bruce could speak multiple languages they will still not acknowledge it just for the sake of their poorly thought out argument. The truth is it was established that Bruce could speak multiple languages in Batman Begins and even if he couldn’t speak the language of the country he was in it is their burden of proof to prove he couldn’t and since they can’t they have not proven their claim that Bruce couldn’t have gotten back to Gotham. No one ever “made up the rules” that Bruce could speak multiple languages, this was in the movie, silly haters.
Ah yes I forgot that they once again will use childish insults (like the dialogue in Last Crusade) as “tiny little worm” when their argument has been debunked, the temper tantrums these people throw are hilarious.
The truth still remains though that this discussion is about Last Crusade and even though this is not a problem in TDKR even if it was it wouldn’t make the problems of LC disappear, these people love deflecting and diverting attention away from their failed arguments when they lose, it’s so pathetic and boy are they obsessed with this invisible car that grows out of the ground that goes 250 mph. In order for their argument to have any weight to it that had to have happened in the movie and since LC gives no indication that happened it remains a plot hole, yet these people still insist that said car exists
Does anyone out there know what I can do to help these people? I’m thinking electroshock treatment and the psych ward, but are there any better solutions?
These same people will even strawman you when they get backed into a corner with logic. They will try to claim that the sunrise (which is often used in film to indicate the scene takes place the next day, much like how like the Eiffel Tower is used to indicate the scene is in Paris) is the basis of your whole point of Indy and Henry arriving in Hatay being a plot hole when you clearly explained 5 times that they arrived the same day the Nazis did and that there was no explanation how they literally went from the middle of nowhere in hostile territory to all the way across Europe. These people are very sad and have very poor debate skills.
They will then start to steal your dialogue because they are not smart enough to come up with their own comebacks such as “your concession is noted”
The strawmans will continue and they will claim that you claimed some bizarre assertion about Donovan’s Rolls Royce when you never even mentioned it. The fact still remains that as far as the movie is concerned Indy and Henry had to have walked almost 2000 miles and therefore the amount of time it would have taken Donovan to load his plane up is irrelevant because even if it took days he still should have arrived in Hatay long before Indy and Henry.
Despite the fact that you have clearly explained that Indy and Henry’s pathetic excuse of a father/son talk began as soon as the blimp took off and the blimp turned around as soon as that “talk” was over which adds up to about 4 minutes (give or take) they will still insist that they were at the table for far longer even though this stupid movie never implies that.
They will still not even admit that they don’t’ understand basic math which is quite odd considering they have been debunked and humiliated repeatedly.
Again they don’t understand what a burden of proof is, if they are going to insist the village was empty they need to prove it yet they don’t, very pathetic. And even though it was firmly established Bruce could speak multiple languages they will still not acknowledge it just for the sake of their poorly thought out argument. The truth is it was established that Bruce could speak