They somehow covered a distance of about 1000 miles with no food, resources, transportation and the entire German Army was actively hunting them down. That is one of the biggest plot holes in the history of cinema yet no one talks about it.
shareThat is one of the biggest plot holes in the history of cinema yet no one talks about it.
It is a big deal because when he last leave Indy and Henry they have no way of getting to Hatay which is over a 1000 mile journey then in the very next scene they are somehow half across Europe, unless you want to tell me that Superman gave them a ride that is a huge plot hole and a huge problem in a movie filled with problems.
Good movies don't have problems like this.
No, I agree with you! They definitely should have shown that uneventful trip and Indy and Henry taking a shit!
The movie clearly doesn't work without either. Maybe in a director's cut perhaps.
We didn’t need an eventful trip we just needed an explanation which we didn’t. This would be just like we see Luke Skywalker destroy the ATAT then the next time we see him he’s on Dagobah getting Jedi training from Yoda. It’s a plot hole and a serious one. You are right though this movie doesn’t work at all, from the plot holes to the Mickey Mouse jokes
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Dude, I agree with you, although I'm sure there's those snooty types that will say that we don't know what the fuck a "plot hole" actually is. Dicks.
They absolutely should have shown both the uneventful trip or a two second explanation of it PLUS Henry Jr. and Henry Sr. taking a shit.
Of course, maybe the Jones' didn't eat...
"They definitely should have shown that uneventful trip and Indy and Henry taking a shit!"
Oh my goodness... LOL!! 😂😂🤣
Funny you say that cause I have read a lot of Marvel comics and in not one of them do any of the characters pee or poop. I guess that means they all are extremely constipated.
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I heard that in an early issue, it was planned to have Superman leave a deuce in the phone booth while he was changing into the supes costume but the editor nixed it. Of course, it would have just been the ramblings of a drunk at a cocktail party telling wild stories I suppose but I know I heard it somewhere.
strntz, you are a genius!
shareI watched the movie tonnes. What part are we talking about? Like minutes in so I can look it up. Not saying your wrong just need a refo point.
shareIt's definitely in the second half of the movie but right after that really dumb scene where the birds take down the German fighter Indy and Henry are now stranded in the middle of Germany with no transportation, money, etc. then it cuts to a very cringe worthy scene where Donovan bribes the Sultan of Hatay, then in the very next scene Indy and Henry are somehow in Hatay, huge plot hole.
shareI will check it out, and get back to ya.
shareYou are wrong.
shareNo I am not wrong, it’s a plot hole
shareI don't think it is. Why is it so hard to believe they made there way to another country off camera?
shareAsk him about Bruce Wayne getting from the pit (in some unknown third world country) and then back to Gothem in an extremely short amount of time in Dark Knight Rises; the hypocrisy of his answer will blow your freaking mind.
shareBut now I'm going in mind pre-blown.
shareWell, I would not send someone into hostile territory without warning. I don't interact directly with that person because we have a history and he is not worth me getting banned over; but I was shocked when I saw this post a mere day after both me and him got off our suspension and the first thing I see is him posting this nonsense which is in direct conflict with his opinion on this same 'issue' in Dark Knight Rises. I could not believe the hypocrisy when I saw this post. Literally insane.
shareBut do you think it even is a plot hole? Last crusade I mean.
sharenot really; there is an undisclosed amount of time that takes place in between the 2 events and the distance was not that great. From Berlin to Iskenderun Hatay is 2000 miles and they were likely much closer than Berlin since they had already traveled in the Zeppelin and in the plane at least a short distance. They could have easily stolen another car and got there within a few days (no more than a week).
In Dark Knight Rises I do consider it a plot hole because Bruce was literally in the middle of nowhere and had no ID and no resources; and he had a set amount of time to get back to Gotham before the bomb would go off. So he many thousands of miles away and has no money, no ID and in the middle of nowhere. In 1938 there was not much ID screening for travels in the same way; so Indy and Henry could more easily get on to trains and such (like they did with the Zeppelin). In the modern era to get on nearly any form of travel between countries you need an ID or it will take you many months to walk across the border or get travel papers.
That is not to say that Last Crusade is a perfect film; it is quite a flawed but enjoyable enough movie. I don't understand the obsession the OP has with the Mickey Mouse joke; sure it wasn't funny but it had no impact on the plot and it was a single less then 1 second line of dialogue. Talk about over blowing it much.
I really can't believe the hypocrisy out of this guy. go over to the Dark Knight Rises board sometime and see his defenses of that film; then compare it with his obsessive nitpicking he does with Last Crusade.
Because they made an over 1000 mile journey in a matter of hours with no explanation, the last time we saw them they were completely stranded, the next thing we know they are in present day Turkey with Sallah, that gap in the plot needs to be addressed and it is a huge issue. The only explanation is that Superman gave them a ride but Superman doesn't exist in this universe so that idea is out. As I said earlier it would be just like if we see Luke Skywalker blow up the ATAT then the next time we see him he is on Dagobah being taught by Yoda. It's a huge problem in a movie filled with problems they are literally in the middle of nowhere with an army actively hunting them down and then they somehow teleport right to where they need to go.
Now some have pointed out that the same problem exists in The Dark Knight Rises when Bruce escapes from the pit but those are two completely different situations because 1) Bruce had 23 days to get back to Gotham, Indy/Henry had 1 day at most, 2) There was a village right next to the pit and Bruce very easily could have gotten a ride to the nearest US embassy and they would have taken him back to the US, Indy and Henry were stranded in the middle of hostile territory, if they ask for help they will be arrested and executed, 3) It was well established in Batman Begins that Bruce was able to move around the world quite easily and was able to establish contacts, this was also before he became a master of theatricality and deception and was the ultimate badass, the same cannot be said for Indy/Henry, so overall the comparisons to TDKR are fallacious.
This was a HUGE problem in Last Crusade but a non-issue in The Dark Knight Rises (that is if you actually pay attention)
"so overall the comparisons to TDKR are fallacious."
how in the hell do you figure it is fallacious? the circumstances are almost identical. In both they have to travel a great distance in a short amount of time with little or no resources. Just calling something "fallacious" does not make it so.
OP is a crazy person, but he literally just spelled out very accurately why the two circumstances are not identical.
The healing of the spine injury with a nice, well timed punch is ridiculous.
Bruce being able to return to civilization and obtain the clean slate on the way is well within the feats that have been established in the trilogy.
How were they supposed to do that? They were stranded in the middle of enemy territory with no resources, as far as what we can gather from the film they walked the thousands of miles to Hatay which is preposterous. Any way you slice it it's a plot hole. Some people have suggested than an invisible car came out of the ground that can travel 250 mph but since there's no evidence in the film to suggest that it's just fan fiction and baseless speculation.
shareThey're resourceful folks.
shareIt takes more than just being resourceful to be able to travel 1000 miles in one day with no explanation, that would require supernatural abilities and Indy and Henry do not have supernatural abilities based on the rules established in this universe.
sharesee what I mean about deluded answer? Where did it state in Last crusade there was only 1 day that took place in between the plane attack and them being in Hatay? I mean sure if we just make up restrictions everything can be a plot hole. But I guess those of us that paid attention know this.
I didn't realize a U.S embassy would just take a person on their word that they are a U.S. citizen with no documentation and just escort them back to the US and famous billionaire maybe they would; but pretty sure the media would be made aware of the extraordinary circumstances.
Where was it established in Begins that Bruce could travel around the world with no resources in less than a month. in Begins there was not a disclosed amount of time he was traveling in Asia. So there is wiggle room to fill in the gaps.
In Rises when he is lost in the middle of nowhere (supposedly it is in India) getting back into a locked down Gotham with no money, no identification and literally no resource in 23 days is one hell of a stretch. then taking hours to build a big fire symbol when a bomb is about to go off.
So From what I gather, Indy and Henry have no excuse but Bruce Wayne does because.... Wait for it.... "HE'S BATMAN". you can make a satire out of the deluded conclusion here.
I’d also like to add that some people will state that there it wasn’t established how much time it took Indy and Henry to get to Hatay well here’s the thing: they make it there as quickly as the Nazis do and they found out where the grail was as soon as they captured Indy at the castle so of course they are going to go there immediately. Also if you pay attention after it was established that Henry and Indy are stranded in hostile territory the next scene shows a sunrise implying it’s the next day and that’s when Donovan is in Hatay an about to go get the grail then in the next scene Henry and Indy are magically in Hatay. The dark knight rises does not have problems such as this, everything that happens in TDKR is consistent with the rules and abilities previously established the same cannot be said for LC
share"the next scene shows a sunrise implying it’s the next day"
Dude; seriously you're literally are making up facts based on your interpretation of what a sunrise means in context of the film. There is NOTHING to indicate from the narrative that it was the next day. You just making stuff up to fit your interpretation of a single frame. Where in film itself does it say it was the next day? unlike your supposed perfect film which specifically states he only had 23 days to get on the other side of the planet with literally no resources and not a single piece of identification.
"soon as they captured Indy at the castle so of course they are going to go there immediately."
but they had time to collect treasures and the Rolls Royce and bring it into the Sultan in less than a day? But I am sure you paid attention to that; that's what I like aboutcha, nothing gets passed you.
Also I would like to add that even if it wasn’t the next day (which the film implies it was) they somehow made it there at the same time the Nazis did who did have transportation and were not being hunted down. Now as far as Batman goes he had 23 days to get back and knowing what had already been established about him it was well within his character to be able to make it in 3 weeks. Plus as I said earlier there was a village not too far from the pit so he was not stranded in the middle of nowhere unlike Indy and Henry. It’s quite odd someone would compare these two scenarios as they are completely different.
share":some people are just stupid"
right back to insults I see, a 7 day suspension was not enough.
The circumstances are almost identical; the fact you don't see this is just an indication of your deluded opinions.
"which the film implies it was"
So now the film is only implying it; before you were stating it as a fact. man your arguments have the "consistency of tangled up Christmas tree lights dipped in yogurt and acid" - MauLer
"Plus as I said earlier there was a village not too far from the pit so he was not stranded in the middle of nowhere unlike Indy and Henry."
It doesn't freaking matter that Bruce was next to a Village; so were Indy and Henry (as indicated by the freaking roads and tunnels they were just driving through. they weren't in the middle of a dessert like environment. There is no indication that Bruce would get help in that village he was close by and there is no indication that village was even populated. It looked abandoned from what I could tell. You ever been to a third world country? I have, it is not so safe or easy to just ask someone for a ride. Bruce would know this danger and likely not ask for help unless it was from a trusted source, and there was no indication of such a source being close by.
Your conflicting arguments between these two situations in these films is just unbelievable egregious.
I’ll also add that some people would say that Bruce could not have gotten help from the nearby village however they have nothing to back up that the village wouldn’t help him so therefore it’s logical to dismiss this idiotic assumption. However Indy and Henry were in hostile territory it would have been too risky to ask for help because for all they would know the people helping them would be Nazi sympathizers and would double cross them, also I didn’t see a village nearby when he last left Indy and Henry. As it stands this is still a major problem with LC but it remains a non issue with TDKR. I have a feeling people who deflect to TDKR are too cowardly to defend their own movie that they have to invent problems with another, much better movie to justify the plot holes in LC, it’s quite pathetic. Also as far as the blimp goes they were on the blimp for the amount of time that it took them to have that idiotic and pathetic excuse of a heartfelt moment which was four minutes maximum, they were definitely still in hostile territory, heck clearly the Nazi fighter planes had jurisdiction
share" therefore it’s logical to dismiss this idiotic assumption."
unlike your idiotic assumption that only one day passed for Indy and Henry between Berlin and Hatay; which is based on... well nothing but a sunrise shot.
" Bruce could not have gotten help from the nearby village"
And it's not an idiotic assumption that he could get help from an unknown nearby village. What if they were sympathetic to Bane or the Taliban or some shit. freaking hypocrite.
"have nothing to back up that the village wouldn’t help him"
You know nothing about this village; from appearances you don't even know if it was populated. It looked abandoned in the frame they showed. Freaking idiotic assumption. It was right next to the pit that Bane controlled. The people may have been Bane Loyalist for all Bruce and you knew.
"would be Nazi sympathizers and would double cross them"
shows how much you know about history; there was very few Nazi sympthizers by that time; especially in Austria and southern Germany. Most people were just afraid of Nazi's. Nice of you to assume most Germans were Nazi sypathizers though. I am German (I moved to the U.S. as a child) so I actually take direct offense to this assumption. Most people freaking hated the nazi party by that time but were terrified of them.
"I have a feeling people who deflect to TDKR are too cowardly to defend their own movie "
Nope, just pointing out your hypocrisy. I already acknowledge Last Crusade as a flawed movie, about equally as flawed as TDKR (both are a 6/10 maybe at best 7/10) Only deluded fanatics think either film is perfect
The thing regardless of whether it was one day or two days Indy and Henry somehow managed to get across Europe with no explanation in the same amount of time that it took the Nazis to (who had planes) therefore even if it wasn't the next day it still remains a plot hole, even though the film certainly implies it was the next day. It would make sense that it was the next day considering Donovan and Elsa would immediately go to Hatay as soon as they found out where the grail was. We see them stranded in the middle of freaking nowhere then the very next time we see them they have traveled almost 2000 miles, that's a major issue.
As for Bruce there is no reason to think that the village would not have given a guy who was clearly stranded a ride to the nearest port, embassy, or wherever so he could get back to his home country, considering it was never established that the village was loyal to Bane. It is logical that the village could have helped him, the people claiming Bruce got back to Gotham with no explanation need to prove the village wouldn't have helped him and not just throw out empty speculation. Haters of TDKR also love to try to shift their burden of proof, they are the ones stating that Bruce got back to Gotham with no explanation (in a hell of a lot more time that it took Indy and Henry) but since they claim it's a plot hole they have to prove that the village didn't help him therefore since they can't prove it they haven't proven their case that Bruce got back with no explanation. As for Henry and Indy it was clear that they were in enemy territory, it would have been beyond idiotic for them to risk asking someone for help in a country whose army was actively hunting them down, the Nazis definitely would have killed anyone who helped Indy and Henry so even if someone wasn't loyal to the Nazis they wouldn't have helped them out of fear. Regardless of whether anyone nearby would or would not have helped him is a non sequitur, Indy and Henry had a reason to not trust anyone living in the nearby area so therefore it would be illogical for them to ask them for help. Also I'd like to point out that some people love to play the victim when they get boxed into a corner and defeated by logic, it's quite interesting.
TDKR:
- It took Bruce 23 days to make it back to Gotham
- There was clearly a village nearby that could have easily helped him
- It was established that he was able to move around the world with ease and it was established that he has the ability to blend in with his surroundings which wouldn't make stowing away on a plane or boat too hard
Last Crusade:
- Indy and Henry travel thousands of miles in a day
- They were literally stranded in the middle of nowhere in hostile territory with the enemy actively searching for them.
- It was never established that either of them had the ability to move around the world with ease nor that they had ninja abilities.
Overall, TDKR has nothing to do with this discussion and it's odd someone would bring it up, even if TDKR has problems (which it clearly doesn't) that doesn't excuse the many problems of LC
TDKR is a relatively flawless movie, LC is a godawful piece of garbage.
"the film certainly implies it was the next day,"
sunrise does not by default mean next day; it just means time has passed and now it is going be a scene taking place in the morning. The burden of proof here is on you to prove that sunrise by default implies one day has passed (I am sure bible thumpers are going to love you contrived explanation and proof you try to conjure up here)
"that it was the next day considering Donovan and Elsa would immediately go to Hatay "
Mable but it would take time to transport the Nazi squadron they had. You don't move that many people and supplies in a day, especially since there was war going on and you are a hostile force. It is just insane and devoid of any logic to assume only one day took place and there is literally zero proof of this claim.
"no reason to think that the village would not have given a guy who was clearly stranded a ride to the nearest port, embassy, or wherever so he could get back to his home country,"
There is no indication that they would or if there was even people there. baseless assumption. You don't seem to understand how the burden of proof works. You are the one making the claim here and I am pointing out the hypocrisy in your claim (burden of proof falls on you, idiot).
" it would have been beyond idiotic for them to risk asking someone for help"
why would they ask for help when they could steal a car? they already did it once, it can be safely assumed they would do it again. Burden of proof is on you to prove they have no way of getting to Hatay in less than a day; it is only an 8 hour drive and they didn't need to cross any bodies of water. it is a straight drive with roads (even in the 1930 there was roads). Unlike in Dark knight rises in which he is clearly not in the U.S. or canada. Can we assume he was in Mexico? Maybe if it was Mexico he could get back to gothem in 23 days but how would he get across the border without identification on without the media attention?
"- Indy and Henry travel thousands of miles in a day"
it is exactly 2000 miles from Berlin to Hatay; that is an 8 hour drive. and they would have been much closer based on how long they traveled on the Zeppelin (it was not 4 minutes as you baselessly claim). So at worse they were 6 or so hours drive away.
"They were literally stranded in the middle of nowhere in hostile territory with the enemy actively searching for them."
They stole one car already that day; why can't it be assumed they would do that again? Burden of proof is on you jackass
" It was never established that either of them had the ability to move around the world with ease nor that they had ninja abilities."
doesn't take ninja skills for Indy to punch someone and steal their car.
"Overall, TDKR has nothing to do with this discussion"
Again your main gripe with Last Crusade so far has been this 'plot hole' and the micky mouse joke. If it is a plot hole in LC then it is an even more blatant plot hole in DKR; you can't have it both ways. It is more egregious in Rises but the situations both heroes were in are very, very similar; only Indy and Henry only had about an 8 hour drive away (at worse); Bruce we have no idea how far or what resources he would use to cross into another country by modern standards.
"TDKR is a relatively flawless movie, LC is a godawful piece of garbage."
Why, because you say so? prove it douche, you have neither proved TDKR is flawless nor have your proved LC is garbage. If anything they are about equally flawed films.
The thing is a sunrise definitely implies the next day, and there is really no indication that a lot of time has passed in between Henry and Indy being stranded and Donovan/Elsa arriving in Hatay, in fact as previously established Donovan/Elsa would have immediately gone to Hatay after discovering the map so there's really nothing in the film to indicate that a lot of time has passed meaning Indy and Henry somehow made it thousands of miles with no transportation in a very short amount of time. Regardless of the amount of time they arrived as quickly as the Nazis did which is ludicrous and this remains a plot hole.
It really wouldn't have taken that much time for the Nazis to make it over there, it's quite simple actually, they get on a plane and go there, Indy and Henry however it seems walked the thousand some miles and anyone who thinks that it would take just as long to fly than to walk needs to be lobotomized.
But the thing is haters of TDKR claim that Bruce making it to Gotham is a plot hole therefore they need to prove that the village would not have helped him beyond a reasonable doubt, I have yet to see that evidence so therefore there is no justification in saying Bruce couldn't have made it back. More baseless assumptions on the part of TDKR haters. I also see no evidence that Indy and Henry stole a car, anyone who says they did is engaging in fan fiction. It is also not an 8 hour drive, going 60 mph (in this imaginary car) it would have taken them multiple days considering they would have to stop and ask for directions frequently. The force doesn't exist in this universe so they can't use it to guide them, but none of that matters considering there is no evidence they stole a car, yeah it's still a plot hole in LC. It is not however in TDKR because the film gave him 23 days to get back and knowing what we know about Bruce that isn't an issue for him, plus there was a nearby village that easily could have helped him (unlike the imaginary car).
Some even claim that to travel 2000 miles it only would have taken 8 hours in an imaginary car but that would have required them to travel 250 mph which is nonsense. There is also no evidence that they stole a car so therefore that cannot be proposed as a reason, since there is no explanation it does remain a plot hole but again anyone who paid attention during the course of The Dark Knight Trilogy would know it is not a plot hole in that case.
"The thing is a sunrise definitely implies the next day,"
Proof? I say it only implies time has passed and it is a new day; not necessarily the next day.
"there is really no indication that a lot of time has passed in between Henry and Indy being stranded and Donovan/Elsa arriving in Hatay,"
okay, maybe it was 2 days. It could have even been 1 day; they Hatay is only an 8 hour drive from Berlin. Last time I checked there are 24 hours in a day. and they were much closer than Berlin.
" Indy and Henry somehow made it thousands of miles with no transportation"
less than 2000 miles and do cars not exist in Europe in the 1930? motorcycles? It is a freaking 7 hour drive at worse. dude, you are freaking just impervious to reason and evidence. incredible.
"Bruce making it to Gotham is a plot hole "
Maybe not a plot hole per-say but it certainly stretches believably; especially given the adherence to reality the rest of the series feigned.
" I also see no evidence that Indy and Henry stole a car, anyone who says they did is engaging in fan fiction"
They literally just stole a car while trying to escape the plans. That happened in that very scene. What the hell are you talking about.
"It is also not an 8 hour drive,"
Sorry did the math wrong. it is a 33 hour drive from Berlin to Iskenderun. but they were definitely much closer than Berlin since they were on the Zeppelin for at least a couple of hours hence them sitting at a table eating and drinking.
"in this imaginary car"
Why is it imaginary, they literally just stole one car in the previous scene; why is it wrong to assume they would not do that again?
"it would have taken them multiple days considering they would have to stop and ask for directions frequently"
Wow; that is assuming they didn't know the way to get there nor basic directions. So asking for directions every few hundred miles takes a one day drive and turns it to multiple days? How many days does it take to ask for direction
"n TDKR because the film gave him 23 days to get back and knowing what we know about Bruce that isn't an issue for him"
23 being on the other side of the planet with no ID (and also the media does not find out)? No that is definitely an issue. Batman can't fly and doesn't have super speed. but the biggest issue is we just don't know where the pit is. If it is in Asia; there is no way he gets back to Gotham in 23 days, no way not without some ID and being able to take a plane.
" plus there was a nearby village that easily could have helped him "
Where is the proof anyone was in the village? Where is the proof anyone would help him?
"(unlike the imaginary car)."
dude Indy literally just stole a car in the previous scene. there is more than one car in Europe you know. WTF?
It's quite strange that no matter how many times you explain that the sunrise implies the next day and that Donovan would have gone to Hatay as quickly as possible it just doesn't get through to some people, that and the fact that even if they were correct it wouldn't matter because Indy/Henry made it there in the same amount of time it took the Nazis and they did not have any transportation. They even continue to claim it's only an 8 hour drive to make it 2000 miles but that would require them to travel at 250 mph, yeah I don't think so. With what we know about Bruce however it is well within reason that he could make it back to Gotham as he has ninja training and was able to make it around the world with no problem even before he received said ninja training, so in the rules established in Batman Begins what happens in TDKR is perfectly consistent, the same cannot be said for LC. These people even continue to claim Indy/Henry stole a car yet can't provide any evidence of said car, it's rather odd. Plus google map didn't exist back in 1938 so they definitely would have had to stop frequently to find out where they were, how to get to Hatay in their made up car.
Some of these people also need to learn how a burden of proof works, if you are going to claim that Bruce couldn't have made it back to Gotham in 3 weeks then you need to be able to prove the village DIDN'T help them, since I've seen no proof that the village wouldn't help them then I reject the assertion that Bruce couldn't have made it back, this is 2nd grade logic so it's quite odd that someone would be confused by this. But then again these are the same people who think invisible cars just magically appear out of the ground LOL
" that the sunrise implies the next day "
Proof? No wrong it implies time has passed and it is a NEW day; it could mean the next day but it does not mean it IS the next day.
"Donovan would have gone to Hatay as quickly as possible"
sure they just had the rolls royce all ready to go. sure.
"They even continue to claim it's only an 8 hour drive to make it 2000 miles but that would require them to travel at 250 mph"
Outright lie; I already corrected myself on this, liar. it would be 33 hours from Berlin to Hatay; but they were likely closer that.
Some of these people also need to learn how a burden of proof works, if you are going to claim that Indy and Henry couldn't have made it to Hatay in an undisclosed amount of time then you need to prove they were incapable of stealing a car or finding some other form of transportation. Hypocrite.
"since I've seen no proof that the village"
You have no proof that villagers even exist; a village can be deserted. What language do they speak there? what if none of them speak English? This assumption Bruce got help form unshown villagers is just asinine and without one bit of EVIDENCE. You made this claim that he got help. Burden of proof is on you for this.
"this is 2nd grade logic so it's quite odd that someone would be confused by this"
don't you dear use the word logic; nothing you have ever said has been inspired by logic; this is blasphemy as far as I am concerned.
" same people who think invisible cars just magically appear out of the ground"
WTF are you talking about. in 1935 there was 300 cars per 1000 people in Europe. Cars existed in large numbers by the 1930 jackass. They would find one within about 5 miles give or take
"clearly explain that it doesn’t even matter if the sunrise implied the next day or not"
What are you serious; that is is the basis of your entire claim of it being a plot hole. My goodness; this is like saying "god exists" then when proven to be a false claim that is not provable they say "it doesn't matter if god exists or not". Yes it does matter that is the basis of your argument that they could not travel from where they were to where they got in that amount of time. And you have the audacity to claim I don't understand logic, you couldn't even define it without google. Your concession is noted
" clearly their elementary school teachers"
your concession is noted and your ad hominem is dismissed.
"Donovan would have just chilled out and given Indy a chance to get to Hatay"
So you are claiming Donovan and the Nazi's had the rolls royce on standby in Hatay for when they arrived?
"despite the fact that he knew where the grail was and had the map, very odd"
Doesn't matter he did not go there alone, he went with a Nazi squadron; that takes time to move them during war time without them being attacked. Logic, use it sometime please for the love of god.
"amount of time Indy and Henry spent in that blimp"
Your claim was they were only on the blimp for about 4 minutes. I proved this false by pointing out they were at a dinner table eating and drinking which suggests many minutes passed if not hours. Unless you think the first think they did after take off was get a table. Logic. USE IT.
"invisible car "
300 cars per 1000 people in Europe at that time. They could a car fast.
"can go 250 mph"
I already acknowledged multiple times that I was wrong on the math and that is was 33 hours from Berlin to Hatay. You concession is noted and your lie is dismissed.
"I guess when you get owned mentally people just make stuff up."
You concession is noted; your false claim of "owning me" is dismissed.
"they refuse to acknowledge the village that is clearly visible when Bruce exits the pit"
Another lie, I acknowledge the village was visible; but no people were shown. You refuse to acknowledge there is no way of knowing who if anyone was at the village.
"it’s been established Bruce can speak multiple languages"
Oh, so are we to assume he can speak ALL languages? I am Filipino by ethnicity. The Philippines has over 10,000 dialects alone. Logic, use it sometime. what a ridiculous assertion.
"gain they just make the rules up as they go to keep their heads above water."
seriously, you just made up rules about Bruce being able to speak multiple languages and 'therefore' can speak the language of the unseen villagers. The level of logic bending and assumption here is just crazy high.
"entertaining to watch their temper tantrums"
Not as entertaining as seeing you wiggle your way through one hypocritical statement ridiculous attempts at logic; like a tiny little worm.
"A) it wouldn’t make the problems of LC go away"
True; but I am not claiming it is NOT a problem in LC; you are claiming it is not a problem in Dark KNight Rises and I am simply pointing out how hypocritical and full of crap you are.
" there is enough evidence and logic that can connect Bruce escaping the pit"
false claims does not equal evidence; for either film. I have made not one assumption based on zero evidence you have. big diference.
"his invisible car that sprouts from the ground and goes 250 mph they keep talking about"
300 cars per 100 people in Europe in 1938; look it up, it is a fact. And I already admitted I did the math wrong. Your concession is noted your lie for the fourth time is dismissed.
What’s even more odd is even after you clearly explain that it doesn’t even matter if the sunrise implied the next day or not they will still argue that non sequitur , clearly their elementary school teachers did a horrible job teaching them basic logic. What’s further proof is they actually think Donovan would have just chilled out and given Indy a chance to get to Hatay (which would have taken at least a year considering as far as what the film tells us they had to have walked) despite the fact that he knew where the grail was and had the map, very odd. Not only that but refuse to concede their epic failure in math even after they’ve been debunked and won’t acknowledge that the amount of time Indy and Henry spent in that blimp was the amount of time they took having that cringe worthy, poorly written, pathetic excuse of an emotional scene (the amount of time they were in the blimp was definitely less than 20 minutes). It’s hilarious that LC is apparently over their head. They will even go on and on about this invisible car that can go 250 mph even though the film gives no indication of such a thing existing, I guess when you get owned mentally people just make stuff up. What’s even more pathetic is they refuse to acknowledge the village that is clearly visible when Bruce exits the pit and that it’s been established Bruce can speak multiple languages, but again they just make the rules up as they go to keep their heads above water. But what is the most obvious sign that they are getting dominated is when they start using profanity and pitching a fit like a toddler, but it’s entertaining to watch their temper tantrums . Ultimately the best word to describe these people is pathetic
Again this comparison with TDKR doesn’t make a whole lot of sense because: A) it wouldn’t make the problems of LC go away and B) there is enough evidence and logic that can connect Bruce escaping the pit to his return to Gotham that is if you pay attention, the same cannot be said for Indy teleporting across Europe or using his invisible car that sprouts from the ground and goes 250 mph they keep talking about
Again they don’t understand what a burden of proof is, if they are going to insist the village was empty they need to prove it yet they don’t, very pathetic. And even though it was firmly established Bruce could speak multiple languages they will still not acknowledge it just for the sake of their poorly thought out argument. The truth is it was established that Bruce could speak multiple languages in Batman Begins and even if he couldn’t speak the language of the country he was in it is their burden of proof to prove he couldn’t and since they can’t they have not proven their claim that Bruce couldn’t have gotten back to Gotham. No one ever “made up the rules” that Bruce could speak multiple languages, this was in the movie, silly haters.
Ah yes I forgot that they once again will use childish insults (like the dialogue in Last Crusade) as “tiny little worm” when their argument has been debunked, the temper tantrums these people throw are hilarious.
The truth still remains though that this discussion is about Last Crusade and even though this is not a problem in TDKR even if it was it wouldn’t make the problems of LC disappear, these people love deflecting and diverting attention away from their failed arguments when they lose, it’s so pathetic and boy are they obsessed with this invisible car that grows out of the ground that goes 250 mph. In order for their argument to have any weight to it that had to have happened in the movie and since LC gives no indication that happened it remains a plot hole, yet these people still insist that said car exists
Does anyone out there know what I can do to help these people? I’m thinking electroshock treatment and the psych ward, but are there any better solutions?
These same people will even strawman you when they get backed into a corner with logic. They will try to claim that the sunrise (which is often used in film to indicate the scene takes place the next day, much like how like the Eiffel Tower is used to indicate the scene is in Paris) is the basis of your whole point of Indy and Henry arriving in Hatay being a plot hole when you clearly explained 5 times that they arrived the same day the Nazis did and that there was no explanation how they literally went from the middle of nowhere in hostile territory to all the way across Europe. These people are very sad and have very poor debate skills.
They will then start to steal your dialogue because they are not smart enough to come up with their own comebacks such as “your concession is noted”
The strawmans will continue and they will claim that you claimed some bizarre assertion about Donovan’s Rolls Royce when you never even mentioned it. The fact still remains that as far as the movie is concerned Indy and Henry had to have walked almost 2000 miles and therefore the amount of time it would have taken Donovan to load his plane up is irrelevant because even if it took days he still should have arrived in Hatay long before Indy and Henry.
Despite the fact that you have clearly explained that Indy and Henry’s pathetic excuse of a father/son talk began as soon as the blimp took off and the blimp turned around as soon as that “talk” was over which adds up to about 4 minutes (give or take) they will still insist that they were at the table for far longer even though this stupid movie never implies that.
They will still not even admit that they don’t’ understand basic math which is quite odd considering they have been debunked and humiliated repeatedly.
Again they don’t understand what a burden of proof is, if they are going to insist the village was empty they need to prove it yet they don’t, very pathetic. And even though it was firmly established Bruce could speak multiple languages they will still not acknowledge it just for the sake of their poorly thought out argument. The truth is it was established that Bruce could speak
Probably stayed at some bed n breakfasts. Grabbed some waffles and sausages along the way. Had a few run-ins with those pesky Nazis. Until they arrived at the canyon of the crescent moon.
shareYeah but still that's all speculation. It's a plot hole no matter what.
share"It's a plot hole no matter what."
Well nice to see you are reasonable and open to being presented with EVIDENCE. What does sand taste like when your head is that buried in it?
I have provided plenty of evidence kid.
share" kid."
can't help being a condescending prick can you? You provided no evidence only bullshit. "the sunrise shot proves it was next morning" is your interpretation not evidence. You provided nothing else. I on the other have provided tons of evidence and you just selectively ignored it. You are the worse atheist ever.
Get over it son. And the sunrise absolutely did imply the next day, it is a film technique used to imply a certain passage of time, just like how seeing the Eiffel Tower means you are in Paris, the film doesn't have to have the word "Paris" on the screen to tell the audience they are in Paris just like Spielberg didn't have to have it say "the next day" on the screen. Regardless Indy and Henry still made it in the same amount of time that the Nazis did and when we last left them they were trapped in a foreign, enemy country (and as confirmed in Raiders Indy didn't know how to speak German) with no resources or transportation, any explanation you can offer is just fan fiction and this is a major plot hole.
share" Get over it son"
more condescension. You are worthless at arguing. You can't insult you way out of shit arguments you now.
"it is a film technique used to imply a certain passage of time"
List every example of shots of sunrises used in film then prove 100% that all those shots represented it was the specific next day in film time. You made the claim; burden of proof is on you to prove that sunrise = next morning.
" with no resources or transportation, any explanation you can offer is just fan fiction and this is a major plot hole."
But how the fuck is it not a plot hole in Dark kight rises when it is the SAME EXACT SCENARIO? Only difference is we know about how far way indy and Henry are away from Hatay and have no idea where Bruce is at. Jesus man; stop doubling down on your personal interpretation and look at the fact and evidence. You suck at this.
They aren’t the same situation as it took Bruce 23 days to get back and not a few hours. Plus Bruce wasn’t stranded in the middle of enemy territory and he know he was close to civilization, Indy was not. Plus we know his stills and he is a trained ninja who had no problem moving from place to place in the previous films. I see no indication that is indys skill set. You’re comparing apples and oranges.
shareYou don't know where Bruce is and by modern travel standards he cannot get back into the U.S. without identification which he does not have. If he crossed into the US illegally it would take weeks for him to complete the trip.
"he know he was close to civilization,"
You don't know the circumstances of the nearby village; it could have been deserted or hostile. You don't know; you are making up excuses (this is much more egregious than your claim of "invisible cars")
" Indy was not."
What the hell are you talking about; they were just on a road and there was a car that they stole. That means they are pretty close to civilization; numb nuts. My god man just think for a second.
"Plus we know his stills and he is a trained ninja who had no problem moving from place to place in the previous films. "
In previous films he had either unlimited reasources or unlimited time. He had neither of those in Rises.
"I see no indication that is indys skill set. You’re comparing apples and oranges."
Indy literally just stole a car in the last scene and there is no indication that he could not do so again. In Rises we are not given ANY details of how Bruce accomplishes getting back to Gotham we only know the limitations, of which he has many. That is why in Rises it IS a plot hole do to missing details while in Last Crusade it is not because the details are freaking obvious.
Even if he was on exactly the other side of the world from Gotham, getting back in 23 days is well within reason, he has ninja training and is skilled at blending in with the surroundings, he is able to disappear and "become truly invisible", stowing away on a boat or plane, assuming proper channels didn't work are well within his skill set.
You dont' know the circumstances either, if the village were deserted or he couldn't speak the language that is your burden of proof.
The only car we saw was blown to smithereens, there is no proof of any other car in the area and he had to be very careful who he trusted as he was in enemy territory, Bruce did not have that problem.
Time was not a problem, he had over 3 weeks, the only challenge is getting transportation, as soon as he gets transportation back to the states he is back the next day.
Where is this car? You have still yet to provide proof of this car you speak of? If you pay attention in Rises and to the previous films there is a logical course that gets Bruce from the pit to Gotham: Nearby village --> Obtain transportation to nearest major city --> Find nearest US embassy and get transportation back OR if that's not possible use his skills of theatricality and deception to stow aboard either a plane or ship on its way back to the US. This chain of events is supported by what we see in Begins and Rises. You however cannot provide proof of this car so therefore the car is not an option.
"stowing away on a boat"
A boat is not an option. Do a little research; trips across the Atlantic are 3 weeks minimum; across the pacific is 5 weeks minimum. Plane is the only option. How does he get through airline customs without a passport or ID? Think about it, can anyone trained in Ninjutsu sneak on to modern airlines? If so why aren't all terrorist experts in Ninjutsu?
"if the village were deserted or he couldn't speak the language that is your burden of proof."
That is NOT how burden of proof works. You are the one who claimed the village was nearby and he could go there to seek help. I point out flaws in this assumption on your part. I don't have to prove the flaws; the claim is yours and I am disputing it; meaning YOU have the burden of proof.
"there is no proof of any other car in the area"
Dude, how many times do I have to say it. IN EUROPE IN 1930'S THERE WAS 300 CARS PER 1000 PERSON. this means on average there would be a car within 5 miles in any direction. I like that you just keep ignoring this FACT because it disproves your claim totally.
"as soon as he gets transportation back to the states he is back the next day."
Sure if he had money or ID/Passport it would easy; but Rises specifically shows us he does not have those things. Meaning international travel within one month is going to be impossible through any regular means.
"Where is this car" "
The film doesn't have to show it. It is implied by the fact that they stole one car in the previous scene and cars are a regular commodity in Europe at that time. There is no reason to doubt they could and would steal another car within about 5 miles based on the proximity estimates.
Where are the villagers that help Bruce Wayne? Is he lucky enough to speak their language, these invisible villagers? It is next to the pit, are they not Bane Loyalist the same way all people in Europe were Nazi sympathizers (according to YOU)?
"Find nearest US embassy and get transportation back"
Even if he got to an Embassy he would have to wait to get a passport before being allowed to travel. Have you ever travelled internationally? it is not so 'easy' as just go to an embassy and get a ride. Also they would not pay for his plane ticket. If he had no money they would have him try to make contact with friends or family to pay for his ticket. AND it takes at least 4 weeks to get a passport processed. Again I would have no problem accepting Bruce could circumvent the process with his unlimited resources; BUT RISES SHOWS US HE IS NO LONGER A BILLIONAIRE.
"deception to stow aboard either a plane or ship o"
He is not going to get through an airpline security and sneak on a plane in modern times no matter how solid his ninja skills are; this is a asinine claim. CAn't travel by boat the minimum travel time is more than 23 days. You are just wrong on this 100%.
"You however cannot provide proof of this car so therefore the car is not an option."
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-962-january-30-2017-vehicles-capita-other-regionscountries-compared-united-states
Look at the chart, numb nuts. just below 300 cars per 1000 people. You claim is like saying; you can't prove they used knives at dinner time in 1930's because you don't specifically see them. It was a regular commodity even in the 30's this means you can assume one is nearby. So, finding a car or motorcycle IS ABSOLUTELY AN OPTION. You are just incredibly 100% wrong on this in every way imaginable.
The fact that he was a US citizen who was kidnapped might play a role in that. Also have you ever traveled by plane? It doesn't take being a billionaire to be able to buy a freaking plane ticket. I am so far from being a billionaire and I was able to pay for a ticket no problem kid. And LOL we have seen him just completely disappear in the blink of an eye, sneaking onto a plane isn't going to be a big deal to him. You are 100% wrong in this area.
My question still stands: Where was this car? I didn't see a car, I saw them stranded on a beach in hostile territory with no resources. Them stealing this imaginary car is just fan fiction on your part.
You keep repeating yourself here kid, this isn't going well for you. Either contribute to this discussion or please kindly stop replying.
"The fact that he was a US citizen who was kidnapped might play a role in that"
So now it was well known that Bruce Wayne was kidnapped? and when he turned up at the embassy it didn't make media headlines? Get real dude, this is Bull.
"Also have you ever traveled by plane?"
Have you ever traveled by plane internationally. Bruce did NOT have his ID or passport, he would NOT be allowed to fly until he had those; it would take weeks for him to get it all processed. That wouldn't be a problem for a billionaire how could pay to expedite the process (NOT JUT BUY THE TICKET). Go try getting into the U.S. by flight without a passport; let me know how it goes.
"we have seen him just completely disappear in the blink of an eye, sneaking onto a plane"
LOL the security cameras wouldn't pick him up? how about airport security? He can 'disappear into shadows sure; but he can't turn invisible. I would love to see a actual practiced ninjutsu expert attempt what you claim Bruce could do; I promise you they would not make it.
"My question still stands: Where was this car? I didn't see a car, I saw them stranded on a beach in hostile territory with no resources. "
My question still stands: Where are the villagers? I ddin't see any villagers. I saw him stranded in the middle of Nowhere outside the pit with no money, ID or resources in unknown territory. It is the same exact problem.
"Them stealing this imaginary car is just fan fiction on your part."
WTF makes you think it imaginary. Does Ketchup have to be shown on camera for it to exist in the Indiana Jones universe? WTF dude. CArs are all over the place. YOU LITERALLY SEE THEM STEAL ONE IN THE VERY LAST SCENE. this is just insane levels of deluded denial on your part.
"You keep repeating yourself here kid,"
You keep repeating yourself to you hypocritical condescending douche bag. Drop the fucking kid stuff you freaking jack ass.
He could have made up any story he wanted to, like he was on a safari, he got drunk and was lost. You know kind of like how he made up a story that he got drunk and burned his house down. And so what if it made the news? I'm pretty sure a major city being taken over by terrorists would have been front page news for months while Bruce's antics would have been buried to page 4.
You said that because he was no longer a billionaire he wouldn't have been able to afford it, I'm not a billionaire and I've flown many times kid. He also could have obtained a limited validity passport which isn't valid for as long but he didn't need it to be. That is done in case of an emergency if your passport/ID are lost/stolen while overseas.
He dodged the cops multiple times in the first movie, it wouldn't have been a problem for him, again he has the ability to blend into the shadows and his surroundings, sneaking onto a plane is within the abilities previously established in the other movies, heck he had no problem camouflaging himself in the first half of TDKR and that was him out of shape. This is a non issue and I am dismissing this point.
My question still stands: How do you know the village was empty
Because there was not a car in sight when we last left Indy and Henry, therefore you are not justified in appealing to it.
Personal insults indicate you have run out of anything to say, you are the weakest link goodbye.
"He could have made up any story he wanted to"
Do you even have a passport? He doesn't matter how you lost it, you would still have to go through the process of getting a new one. That takes weeks, kid.
"You said that because he was no longer a billionaire he wouldn't have been able to afford it, I'm not a billionaire and I've flown many times kid."
god, do you not even read what I wrote; I was not contesting he could afford a plane ticket I was contesting he would not have enough money to 'bypass' the process of getting a passport.
"sneaking onto a plane is within the abilities previously established in the other movies"
You have no proof of this; what other time did Bruce sneak onto a plane in the series? never happend. No proof, I am dismissing this point.
"My question still stands: How do you know the village was empty"
My question still stand: how do you know a car wasn't close by?
"Because there was not a car in sight when we last left Indy and Henry, therefore you are not justified in appealing to it."
Dude that is the EXACT SAME PROBLEM as the villagers not being in sight. Man you aren't just a hypocrite, you a low thinking one at that.
"Personal insults indicate you have run out of anything to say"
You started off with personal insults and being a condescending prick; which proves your argument are weak.
I just explained to you son, he could have obtained a limited validity passport which doesn't take as much time to obtain, or he could have stowed aboard a plane, you have no debunked either possibility which means you are not justified in saying Bruce getting back to Gotham is a plot hole. You are really bad at this.
I already debunked your second premise in my first paragraph, dismissed.
I have plenty of proof, we have watched Bruce blend into the shadows and disappear, he has the skills to hide in his surroundings and become "truly invisible", this is basic ninja training kid. Those skills are within what it would have taken to stow away on a plane.
Because there wasn't a car in sight that's why. You can't provide proof of this car however I can provide proof of this village.
What personal insults did I ever use? And yes let the hate flow through you.
EDIT: The village was Jodhpor, India and it is populated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodhpur
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what city were they in before they arrived in Hatay?
shareThey were definitely still in Germany considering their conversation on the blimp started immediately after take off and it lasted maybe 4 minutes then at the end of that cringeworthy talk they had they were turning around and that’s when they jumped off. They were at least 1000 miles away yet they arrived at the same time the Nazis did
shareI doubt that; the time it would take to dispatch 2 planes and get the coordinates to the Zeppelin and then catch up to it's exact location. Also Indy disabled the radio, which took time after they took off, and it took time for the Zeppelin crew to realize it to realize it before turning the Zeppelin around. There is no indication that the conversation that Indy and Henry had was immediately after take off, in fact it is suggested they were on the Zeppelin for a while considering they were in seats when taking off but at a diner table eating and drinking when they have the conversation. You constantly accuse others of not paying attention. Maybe it is you that doesn't pay attention.
shareAnd... This is time compression. Somebody had the trip mapped out when the screenplay was written, but in the filming and editing, things got compressed. The incident with the birds on the beach... A beach that was certainly in Greece or Turkey... That is where the characters wind up after what seems like a very short time. Zeppelin - Seems like just minutes in the film, should have been longer. The flight in the bi-plane - seems like just minutes but they crash land in Greece (or Turkey). This is the proof that there has been time unaccounted for because, as the crow (or zeppelin or biplane) flies that is a good 1000 miles. Then from the beach to Hatay by... presumably train or car - unseen and not hinted at - but about 700 miles from a hypothetical point on the Greek coast. I'd bet you could do that last leg in 14-16 hours with a mix of car/truck and train... mostly train.
So, there's neither a plot hole nor an easy explanation in my view. The whole trip is depicted in short action beats with no allowance for the time that must have passed. Par for the course and a good reason why they should have used an animated map to show the zeppelin flight, the bi-plane flight and the (probable) train journey. They did it earlier in the film for the DC-3 trip.
I'm reasonably comfortable with the Nazi expedition taking as much time to reach the destination as Indy. The Nazis were noted for equal parts efficiency and the total opposite of efficiency. The whole semi-feudal structure could easily have slowed procurement of the gift car and air transport for it.
OH that is a good point about the beach they were on; I didn't think of that. clearly they were not in Germany anymore. Nowhere in Southern German has a rocky waterfront to a great body of water like that.
"I'm reasonably comfortable with the Nazi expedition taking as much time to reach the destination as Indy. The Nazis were noted for equal parts efficiency and the total opposite of efficiency. The whole semi-feudal structure could easily have slowed procurement of the gift car and air transport for it."
Exactly; there is no indication that Donovan and the Nazi squadron would for sure get there faster than Indy considering they had to go through an official governmental approval process. The assumption that it was the next day based on the frame of a sunrise alone; is just an incorrect assumption based on no evidence.
Please prove to me the beach was in Greece or Turkey? (the scene was filmed in Spain) The film never said that so therefore you are not justified in that assertion. Whether the beach looks like it would have been in Germany or not is irrelevant, if you prove that nowhere in Germany is there a coast such as what we saw in the movie all you've done is introduced a new plot hole because they were definitely still in Germany so that means the film shows non-German topography in Germany. And maybe the trip was mapped out but when they cut it they introduced a huge plot hole. The blimp did not fly that far, Vogol woke up as soon as it took off and he was going to call it back immediately, not to mention a mere few minutes after it took off Indy sat down with his Dad and then 4 minutes went by uncut and then the blimp turned around, that means in movie time 4 or so minutes went by after take off and then it turned around. Sorry but they were still in Germany (or at least very close to Germany), any assertions that they were in Greece is baseless speculation and fan fiction.
Any way you slice it this is a plot hole and you would never make excuses like this for any other movie.
I draw a straight line from the point of origin - near Berlin - to the destination of Hatay. I found that going in that direction you didn't hit beachfront property till you got to Greece. They could have shot it on Santa Catalina Island for all I care and it would still be intended to be Greece, or, if you want to give them a bonus benefit of the doubt, Turkey. I think Greece makes more sense. The dress of the local they encounter and the look of the area suggests... Greece more than Turkey. I stand by my analysis of what was depicted. There is lots of missing time because the journey was truncated at three points: 1) The Zeppelin trip. 2) The bi-plane trip. 3) The only implied trip from the beach to Hatay. A bit of editing and a resort to the animated maps and the whole business would have been perfect.
I don't call it a plot hole. Call it a plot hole if it makes you happy.
I am a science fiction fan. And I love movies and TV. Consequently, I have spent a ridiculous amount of time making excuses for things film and TV writers and producers have done either from ignorance or simply because they didn't give a shit.
Then all you’ve done is pointed out another plot hole although I’m willing to accept that maybe they got diverted when they stole the plane and ended up on the beach in Northern Germany. Also you don’t know where in Germany they took off from, you also don't know what their destination was, Indy just said he got the first flight out of Germany, he may have been planing on going to Denmark first and then get another flight, I see nothing to indicate their tickets were for Hatay.
Because of your comments I now hate this movie even more because now we have another plot hole and according to you Spielberg doesn't even understand the topography of Germany (this is based on your argument)
Word of warning; don't bother trying to reason with this guy; he is a lunatic that will harass you through a large number of replies; lie about what you post and just argue for the sake of it without providing anything of substance (all the while insulting and flaming you). I think they have absolutely no life and they are desperate for attention on this site but most people that know them stopped interacting with them because of the fanaticism and toxic nature of his posts.
Look at my conversation above with him if you need any proof; the guy is a flaming lunatic; completely impervious to logic, reason, and rational arguments. If you don't accept his opinion as fact he will not stop arguing no matter how ridiculous or asinine his points are.
Word of warning; don't fall into the trap. I keep at him when I see him trying to bully his way through conversations and posts all the while the moderators do nothing and pretend what he is doing in not flaming. serious mod5 says all despite all the insults and name calling this user does; it is not flaming. How mod5 justifies this is beyond comprehension.
I see... I'll go see if anyone wants to argue about the submarine in Raiders...
shareThat's actually not a plot hole because in the film you can see Indy riding the top of the submarine and back then submarines could only travel deep under water for short distances so therefore it's not logical that the sub would have dove down. Then all he has to do is jump off right before the sub enters the docking area. From what we see in Raiders you can logically fill in the blanks which means it's not a plot hole, the same cannot be said for Indy/Henry teleporting across Europe.
EDIT: The same people will continue to claim that an invisible car and/or motorcycle just came out of the ground and somehow took them to Hatay even though there was not a car nor a motorcycle in sight when we last left the two. I saw some rocks, a coastline and the two characters without any resources or transportation, the next time we see them they somehow teleported 2000 miles East and are with Sallah. I keep asking where is this alleged car/motorcycle? How do you know they took it 2000 miles to Hatay? Where did it come from? And yet the people who defend this trash movie can't answer those questions, all I ever get are baseless assertions/speculation and fan fiction. There is a huge gaping hole in the script here which is a major problem. As things stand out of the 3 films that have been discussed: Raiders does not have a plot hole, TDKR does not have a plot hole, Last Crusade has a serious plot hole
That's actually not a plot hole because in the film you can see Indy riding the top of the submarine and back then submarines could only travel deep under water for short distances so therefore it's not logical that the sub would have dove down.
We never once see the sub dive in fact we actually see it approaching the island and it’s above water and Indy is riding on top of it. You have no basis in calling this a plot hole and his other backs up my premise.
This is all a distraction however because my point about LC is 100 percent a plot hole and a huge story problem
We never once see the sub dive
in fact we actually see it approaching the island
and Indy is riding on top of it.
You have no basis in calling this a plot hole
This is all a distraction however because my point about LC is 100 percent a plot hole and a huge story problem
We see the captain giving orders in German and some random Nazi turning a wheel, I’d love to hear how you know that means the sub is diving, the sub is going to have multiple random switches, you never see the sub dive so you are in no position to say it did, learn how to meet your burden of proof or don’t make reckless assertions. Also if you have to say “why else would they do it” you are appealing to ignorance and it’s a logical fallacy.
It is a plot hole that the Nazis wouldn’t guard Indy, they know how much of a danger he is to them from the first film and they very well should not have left him alone, the fact that they didn’t search him and take his lighter just further proves my point. The plot moved forward because the characters are stupid, that’s a huge issue.
This whole discussion is pointless because I am willing to concede that even the greatest films ever made have minor technical flaws, Last Crusade however has far too many problems to ignore, heck the entire ending is impossible because Sallah loses his rifle.
I do know what a plot hole is and I have pointed out many in LC but you are too much of a deluded fan boy to see reason, grow up
Edit: I just watched the scene again you can clearly see Indy as they approach the island, he’s on top of the sub and they obviously didn’t dive as there was no reason to
We see the captain giving orders in German and some random Nazi turning a wheel, I’d love to hear how you know that means the sub is diving,
the sub is going to have multiple random switches
you never see the sub dive so you are in no position to say it did,
Also if you have to say “why else would they do it” you are appealing to ignorance and it’s a logical fallacy.
It is a plot hole that the Nazis wouldn’t guard Indy,
the fact that they didn’t search him and take his lighter just further proves my point.
The plot moved forward because the characters are stupid, that’s a huge issue.
I do know what a plot hole is
Edit: I just watched the scene again you can clearly see Indy as they approach the island, he’s on top of the sub and they obviously didn’t dive as there was no reason to
No that's not good enough because it was never confirmed they did dive, maybe the superior officer came in later and told them not to because it wouldn't be very fuel efficient, we never saw them dive so you have no basis in saying they did. Also I'll reiterate my original point: I concede that even the greatest films ever have minor technical goofs, so even if you win this discussion it will not make the massive plot holes and story problems of LC disappear, sorry pee wee.
Sorry, but if your logic is "why else would they do it" then not only are you attempting to give an argument from ignorance fallacy but you are also trying to shift your burden of proof onto me which is dishonest to say the least. Conclusive proof would be seeing them dive, which we don't, you moron.
It is absolutely a plot hole because this army was one of the greatest threats to the world in all of history, they would never leave a man who wiped out like 30 or so of their men just two years ago and won the Ark of the Covenant over them, just unguarded in a room by himself and not even search his pockets. The plot moved forward because the most evil and threatening force the world has ever seen was stupid. That's a huge issue.
Deflecting to Raiders again does not make the problems of LC go away, if you actually won the argument on the sub (which you have come nowhere close to), all you would have done is point out a problem with Raiders, that wouldn't excuse the massive plot holes and story problems with LC.
Evidently so.
There you go again "why would that be", appeal to ignorance. Also if by your own admission he is straddled around the periscope that answers your own question, genius.
No that's not good enough because it was never confirmed they did dive,
maybe the superior officer came in later and told them not to because it wouldn't be very fuel efficient,
It is absolutely a plot hole because this army was one of the greatest threats to the world in all of history,
they would never leave a man who wiped out like 30 or so of their men just two years ago and won the Ark of the Covenant over them, just unguarded in a room by himself and not even search his pockets.
The plot moved forward because the most evil and threatening force the world has ever seen was stupid. That's a huge issue.
Deflecting to Raiders again does not make the problems of LC go away,
if you actually won the argument on the sub
all you would have done is point out a problem with Raiders, that wouldn't excuse the massive plot holes and story problems with LC.
Also if by your own admission he is straddled around the periscope that answers your own question, genius.
It's not sufficient, how do you know that they didn't change their minds later and decided not to dive so they would get better fuel efficiency, you have to prove that didn't happen for your premise to go forward. Until you can show that they did dive all you are doing is talking out of your anus. It's not my burden to proof to explain why the order was given, it's your burden of proof to prove they dove, don't try to shift your burden of proof onto me again, pee wee.
They were the greatest threat to human civilization in the same time period, they were on the rise in 1938 there's no way they'd be dumb enough to leave a man like Indiana Jones unguarded, the only reason he was was so the movie could happen. If the characters have to act like idiots for the movie to happen then that's a huge problem.
They had no reason to think Indy swam all the way over to the sub, they thought he was dead, they knew Indy was alive in LC. Bad comparison on your part.
The hypocrisy is all yours and you got absolutely demolished on the sub discussion, your only strategy was to shift your burden of proof onto me and to appeal to ignorance, it's a very dishonest way of debating.
Good then therefore discussing Raiders to excuse Last Crusade is pointless, I accept your concession.
HOW DO YOU KNOW IT HAD JUST SURFACED???? SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE YOU IDIOT!
Wow you seriously have an issue. You need to accept that the majority of people love this film.
shareI don’t care, I still think the movie is trash. Also if you judge people based on their taste in movies then it’s you who has issues.
shareI am judging you based off your actions and how you speak to people. We get it you hate this film why do you continue to post about it? Your methods are antagonistic. You say I am trying to understand why people like it, when I feel that is disingenuous I do not think you care.
shareNo you are judging me based on my opinion of this trash movie which is the epitome of messed up. How am I being antagonistic? I literally forgot all about this thread until someone else decided to randomly resurrect it. Your definition of “antagonistic” is anyone having a different opinion than you, well grow up snowflake, you aren’t that important
shareNope I am looking at how you speak to others who enjoy this film. Look over this thread and it illustrates your antagonistic behavior quite nicely. I have no issue with people who disagree with me. I do have an issue with antagonistic behavior though.
shareNot being antagonistic at all, you just need to toughen up, pee wee.
shareYeah nope you have called many people names on this board.
shareIt's not sufficient, how do you know that they didn't change their minds later and decided not to dive so they would get better fuel efficiency,
They were the greatest threat to human civilization in the same time period
they were on the rise in 1938 there's no way they'd be dumb enough to leave a man like Indiana Jones unguarded
They had no reason to think Indy swam all the way over to the sub, they thought he was dead, they knew Indy was alive in LC. Bad comparison on your part.
HOW DO YOU KNOW IT HAD JUST SURFACED???? SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE YOU IDIOT!
First of all I would like to see a translation showing that's what they actually said, it's impossible to make out what they are saying and there are no subtitles so I don't even think you've demonstrated they said to dive, secondly we never see them do this so you don't get to say they did. This is just like the invisible car that came out of Indy's ass you say existed in LC.
Just look at the damage the Nazi army did to this world you moron, they clearly knew what they were doing and Hitler despite being an evil, sadistic psychopath was quite intelligent. No way they would ever leave Indy and Henry unguarded especially since they know the damage Indy did to them 2 years ago.
Changing your mind about diving, especially when it will save you fuel isn't dumb, rejected.
They didn't think Indy would have swam all the way over, they thought he was dead per Katanga.
No you didn't, you have no shown me one shred of evidence that the sub dived, even so it sounds like you've answered your own question and therefore Raiders does not have a plot hole unlike LC. So I guess there's really nothing more to add to this discussion. If I grant you your own premise then we've established that there's an explanation as to how he made it to the island. Damn you're dumb. If you are still confused on this (which is rather odd that you would be), IMDB has an entry on this: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082971/faq?ref_=tt_faq_sm
Now are you ready to man up and admit that LC is riddled with plot holes, story problems, bad acting, character flaws, etc. or are you going to continue to make an ass of yourself?
Eat a sandwich.
shareFirst of all I would like to see a translation showing that's what they actually said, it's impossible to make out what they are saying and there are no subtitles so I don't even think you've demonstrated they said to dive,
secondly we never see them do this so you don't get to say they did.
This is just like the invisible car that came out of Indy's ass you say existed in LC.
Just look at the damage the Nazi army did to this world you moron,
No way they would ever leave Indy and Henry unguarded especially since they know the damage Indy did to them 2 years ago.
Changing your mind about diving, especially when it will save you fuel isn't dumb, rejected.
They didn't think Indy would have swam all the way over, they thought he was dead per Katanga.
No you didn't, you have no shown me one shred of evidence that the sub dived,
If you are still confused on this (which is rather odd that you would be), IMDB has an entry on this: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082971/faq?ref_=tt_faq_sm
Now are you ready to man up and admit that LC is riddled with plot holes,
Moviechatuser597 is so dumb he will find a way to weasel his way out of addressing facts. It is his specialty.
shareFunny how the OP can't provide a single scrap of evidence how Bruce returned from the Pit to Gotham City, yet when confronted with plenty of evidence of the sub diving in Raiders, he just pulls his ass over his head and denies everything.
shareHe's an idiot dude. A blind moron who can't logically defend his film. When he likes a film he is blind to it's faults.
shareOh you should read his melt-downs on the Dark Knight Rises board.
shareOh I have seen them. That guy is a joke.
shareIf you go to youtube and search for deleted scenes, they actually filmed Indy being towed behind the sub that's clearly submerged except for the periscope. I can't say for sure but I think Spielberg & co realized that even this was a a bit silly for the audience to accept this hence why it was dropped from the released movie.
shareOh facts do not matter to him, he will do whatever mental gymnastics he has to in order get around it. It is funny because he will literally fold like a pretzel in order to defend The Dark Knight Rises. What is stupid is just because you are admitting a flaw does not mean you are saying the film is bad. It is like he can't get that through his head. If you give TDKR anything less than a 10/10 that is not okay in his book.
shareThe sub conversation is now irrelevant because you admitted there was an explanation as to how he got to the island, thanks. Too bad the same can't be said for how Indy teleported across Europe.
My second point was completely legitimate, you are just making up that they drove an invisible car all the way across Europe. The only car they had was totaled. You are making baseless assumptions. I'll ask again: Where is the evidence for this car? The fact that they had a car earlier is not evidence you moron. When you say "Them being in Hatay" is evidence all you did was work backwards, that's not how logic works. If you can't demonstrate that they did steal this invisible car then it's a plot hole. I don't believe cars just pop out of people's asses although you seem to have this strange idea that they do.
I did, they invaded most of Europe and murdered 6 million innocent people, this is like 3rd grade history. Damn you suck.
It's not plausible at all, the greatest threat the world as ever seen would never leave a man who did that amount of damage to them unguarded. The only way the plot moves forward is because the characters are stupid. Stupidity is the reason the movie happens.
As for your next paragraph, you've already conceded there is an explanation as to how he made it to the island, you are arguing nonsense now. Rejected.
No, LC has far more plot holes than Raiders. Raiders is one of the greatest films ever made, LC is a complete and utter embarrassment and it's not just the plot holes, it's the lazy writing, the character flaws, the underwhelming score, the contrivances, the kiddie humor (Mickey Mouse joke anyone?). The list goes on. LC is an objectively bad movie and it should be on the IMDB Bottom 100 alongside Manos the Hands of Fate, The Emoji Movie, Superbabies and Disaster Movie.
See what I mean?
"the same cannot be said for Indy/Henry teleporting across Europe."
300 cars per 1000 people in Europe at that time. Also that does not include motorcycles which were also quite popular. All they need to do is find one of the millions of cars and motorcycles that would be within approximately 5 miles in any direction. Why is it so hard to fill in this gap same way one can fill in the gap of Indy riding a submarine, without trying to fanatically assume they teleported? It is NOT a plot hole in Raiders and it is NOT a plot hole in Last Crusade. Just ridiculous.
No food? When was Indy seen travelling with food in any of the previous films?
No resources? You mean like a wallet which he would have with him when going to Venice? Only in Raiders did we see him actually packing. One can safely assume he packed before going to Venice as well, most people don't need to be spoon-fed these things.
No transportation? We saw Indy being able to steal a motorboat, a motorcycle, a plane and a car. What makes it so hard to believe they could steal a vehicle a fifth time? As for the German army, this was in 1938 - before the war. And as the biplane crash-landed somewhere near the alps, it is safe to assume he was already close to the border or already beyond it when he landed.
All in all, there is nothing remotely mysterious here. The only mysterious journey Indy ever made, for which there is no plausible explanation, is the one he made by u-boat in Raiders. But none of the threads about that has been made by you.
Where is this vehicle they stole? Please show me evidence from the film that shows them riding in an invisible car that just comes out of the ground. Also deflecting to problems in other movies doesn’t make the problem in LC go away you idiot. Your excuse is based on speculation and assumptions and doesn’t solve anything you pathetic LC fanboy
shareWhere is this vehicle they stole?
Please show me evidence from the film that shows them riding in an invisible car that just comes out of the ground.
Also deflecting to problems in other movies doesn’t make the problem in LC go away you idiot.
Your excuse is based on speculation and assumptions
and doesn’t solve anything
There was never any indication this vehicle even existed, you are just making stuff up at this point and throwing out baseless speculation which will not be accepted. I never said you had to physically see it, I said there had to be an indication that it happened, there wasn't, those two idiots went from being stranded in hostile territory to being clear across Europe two scenes later, that is the very definition of a plot hole.
You second sentence is a strawman, dismissed.
Actually you are, you are trying desperately to prove that Raiders had similar problems (which it doesn't) but even if I granted you that all you've done is proven that Raiders has problems, that doesn't excuse the massive script problems of LC, dismissed.
Not even a reasonable assumption, you are just pulling things out of your anus, although my fuel efficiency point is legitimate and many subs back then didn't dive unless they had to for those reasons.
Nice try, kiddo but you've been owned again.
There was never any indication this vehicle even existed,
you are just making stuff up at this point
baseless speculation which will not be accepted
I never said you had to physically see it,
I said there had to be an indication that it happened
those two idiots went from being stranded in hostile territory
that is the very definition of a plot hole.
You second sentence is a strawman, dismissed.
Actually you are,
you are trying desperately to prove that Raiders had similar problems
but even if I granted you that all you've done is proven that Raiders has problems, that doesn't excuse the massive script problems of LC
Not even a reasonable assumption,
although my fuel efficiency point is legitimate and many subs back then didn't dive unless they had to for those reasons.
Then that's a plot hole, you moron. They made it to Hatay with no explanation, that is a gap in the plot and it creates a huge problem. You are making baseless assumptions. Are you trolling me? Like seriously if you are you aren't very good at it and it's rather immature.
You never proved they dove in the first place however this is now a completely irrelevant point as you have conceded that there is an explanation as to how Indy made it to the Island, the same cannot be said for how he made it to Hatay.
It is not, I said that there at least had to some indication that this invisible car exists, example in Die Another Day I see a snow vehicle crash into what appears to be nothing, but I know there is an invisible car there so therefore I accept it. The same cannot be said for LC. If Indy had said something like "oh look Dad, there's a car right over there, I'm sure I can hot wire it and I know there is a place where we can refuel on the way to Hatay" then this wouldn't be a problem, but no such scene exists.
Them being in Hatay is not an explanation, genius. That's a problem because they teleported across Europe and we never found out how they did it. That would be like Luke Skywalker and Obi Wan Kenobi arriving at Mos Eisley, then they remove the Cantina scene, Han's introduction, etc. and the very next thing we see is them coming out of hyperspace at the remains of Alderaan.
First of all they never told us they were in France when they broke off from the blimp, more baseless speculation and lies from you, secondly the German army clearly had jurisdiction wherever they were so therefore they were in hostile territory. Finally right after they took off Indy sits down with Henry for 2 minutes or so having one of the worst excuses of a "father-son" moment I have ever seen, then they turn around, so yes they did not get very far, they were still in Germany, the scene was shot in Spain so if we are going by what the area looked like the only other option is they
were somehow in Spain and this does not bode well for your argument because that means they teleported even further than I initially thought.
Your post was full of strawmans and logical fallacies including appeals to ignorance, you are really bad at this, I am going to sign you up for a logic 101 class for your birthday.
Actually I no longer need to prove that Raiders didn't have a plot hole with the sub because you just provided an explanation and I'll take it, thanks. Too bad the same can't be said for LC.
LOL, you are the one trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, you started with the assumption that it wasn't a problem that Indy and Henry teleported across Europe and then you filled in whatever blanks you had to to reach that conclusion, that is the opposite of how logic works. (you said "they are in Hatay, therefore they somehow made it", when you should have started from the beginning and realized they made it all the way over there with no explanation or indication as to how they did it). I seriously feel like I'm talking to my 4 year old nephew, although in all fairness I think I would have a more intelligent conversation with him. You are trying to argue that 2+2=5 and it's nonsense, the only reason I even entertain you is because it's actually kind of fun putting you in your place. You don't know what you're talking about and your love for this trash movie is really pathetic.
Then that's a plot hole, you moron. They made it to Hatay with no explanation, that is a gap in the plot and it creates a huge problem.
You never proved they dove in the first place
however this is now a completely irrelevant point as you have conceded that there is an explanation as to how Indy made it to the Island
the same cannot be said for how he made it to Hatay.
It is not, I said that there at least had to some indication that this invisible car exists,
If Indy had said something like "oh look Dad, there's a car right over there, I'm sure I can hot wire it and I know there is a place where we can refuel on the way to Hatay" then this wouldn't be a problem, but no such scene exists.
That's a problem because they teleported across Europe
That would be like Luke Skywalker and Obi Wan Kenobi arriving at Mos Eisley, then they remove the Cantina scene, Han's introduction, etc. and the very next thing we see is them coming out of hyperspace at the remains of Alderaan.
First of all they never told us they were in France when they broke off from the blimp, more baseless speculation and lies from you
secondly the German army clearly had jurisdiction wherever they were so therefore they were in hostile territory.
Finally right after they took off Indy sits down with Henry for 2 minutes or so having one of the worst excuses of a "father-son" moment I have ever seen,
then they turn around, so yes they did not get very far,
Your post was full of strawmans and logical fallacies including appeals to ignorance, you are really bad at this, I am going to sign you up for a logic 101 class for your birthday.
1. It absolutely is a plot hole, without knowing what happens off camera the movie makes absolutely no sense, again this is like Luke and Obi-Wan arriving at Mos Eisley then in the very next scene they are coming out of hyperspace, it's ludicrous and it's one of the many problems this POS movie has.
2. The sub discussion is now pointless considering you already conceded there is a logical reason how he made it to the island, dismissed.
3. It is absolutely necessary to know how he made it to Hatay because the last time we saw him he was stranded in the middle of enemy territory with no food, resources, transportation, etc. and the entire German army was actively hunting them down. You know when Vogol realizes they aren't on the blimp it's not going to be too hard for him to figure out where they are yet he apparently just abandoned searching for him and just went straight to Hatay. Another plot hole.
4. Apparently it is invisible because we never see it and you can't even describe what it looks like, nor was there any indication there ever was a car so therefore you are just pulling this out of your anus. Quit making excuses and concede this is a plot hole.
5. Your definition of "fill in the blanks" is to just make up whatever you want for this trash movie to make sense, by that logic I could just say that Superman flew in and gave them a ride, it would make as much sense of this invisible car Indy apparently farted out of his ass. Another logical fallacy on your part.
6. With the situation we last left our two "heroes" they had no means of travelling so it's more logical to say they did teleported rather than drive in this invisible car you keep alluding to.
7. It is exactly the same thing, it would have been a huge problem in A New Hope if we didn't get the Mos Eisley scene and it's equally a problem in Last Crusade, in fact I'd say its worse
8. It looked close enough to Germany to me, kind of like how Rambo First Blood Part II was filmed in Mexico yet
8. looked enough like Vietnam. Also they took off from Germany and then about 2 minutes later they turned around, there is no way they made it outside the German borders because the scene never cuts away from the moment they took off and the moment they realized they were going back. (it was exactly the amount of time it took that pathetic excuse of a "father-son talk" to happen
9. The German's clearly had jurisdiction after Indy and Henry left the blimp because they sent fighter pilots to intercept them, there is no way after that the two of them made it to friendly territory, even if I grant you that they weren't in Germany (which you have a long road ahead of you to prove), they are still clearly in an area that the German's have jurisdiction over, hence the term "enemy territory"
10. Yes worst excuse ever, that scene was pure cringe, the dialogue was wrong, the acting was wrong, everything about that scene was so wrong. Heck Aladdin and the King of Thieves established a better Father-Son relationship than this did and that's just some straight to video Disney sequel.
11. When Indy came to the table they had just taken off, watch the scene again you idiot. Around two minutes later (give or take) they were turning around. Plus Vogol is immediately going to radio the blimp to turn around, this idea that you think it took him enough time for the blimp to get out of hostile territory and not only that but they were so far out of hostile territory that they hadn't re-entered hostile territory by the time Indy/Henry got off the blimp is preposterous.
12. I absolutely do and you have strawmanned me multiple times, its a very dishonest way of debating.
Sure, we can reply by numbers.
1. No, this is not what a plot hole is. It's just something that happens off camera. Most viewers are able to fill in the blanks.
2. I said ridiculous reason, not logical. A submerged uboat will not always have its scope up, and looking around they'd be bound to spot him. So there is an explanation, yes, but it was so stupid that Spielberg decided to cut it and leave the question unanswered.
3. It isn't "absolutely necessary" at all. This would fall under nice-to-know information, not need-to-know. And there is no indication that this was enemy territory. If this were Germany, they would have sent ground forces to intercept Indy and Henry, and not relied on two solitary fighters which were clearly not on home turf. Like you said, the "entire German army" (hyperbole by Indy, of course) was hunting them, but they were nowhere to be seen - because that would constitute an invasion. If this were Germany, we'd see ground forces. And it's not that Vogel realises they aren't on the air ship, it's the air ship that realises their radio is broken. The two fighters were probably tailing the air ship, but were unable to communicate to them because Indy revealed that he had sabotaged their radio. And if Indy crash landed outside of Germany, there wasn't anything Vogel could do to search for Indy once the planes were down, was there? See, everything falls into place if they landed OUTSIDE OF GERMANY. I have no idea why this is so difficult for you.
4. Things aren't invisible just because they are off-camera. Say, we didn't see Donovan's mother in this movie either, even though she is briefly referenced. I GUESS THAT MEANS SHE MUST BE INVISIBLE. You really are thick as a plank. And where was the indication that the uboat captain countermanded his own order? See, your double standards are impossibly ridiculous. You HAVE TO be spoon fed EVERY bit of information in Crusade, but in Raiders, you don't need ANY on-screen confirmation at ALL.
1. Again your definition of "fill in the blanks" is just make up whatever you want, logic doesn't work that way, by your "logic" one could just say superman gave them a ride, that is just as plausible as the invisible car Indy farted out of his ass
2. Quit talking about the U-boat, by your own admission there is an explanation, the same cannot be said for LC, dismissed
3. It's need to know information, as things stand Indy and Henry were stranded in the middle of nowhere yet were somehow clear across Europe 2 scenes later. As far as we know from the film they just walked there considering there was no mode of transportation in sight the last time we saw them. And as I pointed out earlier you are basically reduced to just making stuff up to fill in the gaps, if you have to make up invisible cars for the plot to make sense then that's a sign of bad filmmaking which LC is riddled with. They were clearly in territory that the German's had jurisdiction over so since they didn't send more forces that is yet another plot hole. The problem is you are starting with the assumption that this movie is logical by default then you are working backwards, that is the complete opposite of how logical works, you should take what the film presents and then determine if it's logical, which is isn't.
4. It is invisible because there was nothing in the film that even remotely suggests that this car exists, if you get to deflect to an invisible car then I get to say Superman gave them a ride, the film doesn't indicate either are possible. Donovan's mother has nothing to do with the plot, bad comparison. Donovan's mother doesn't move the plot forward. It's logical to assume he has a mother because that is how human reproduction works although if was created by artificial insemination then that would have no bearing on the plot, where this made up car came from has everything to do with the plot, quit excusing this objectively bad film making
5. You have no problem with making things up for other movies. Only with Crusade do you refuse to do so.
6. Calling you stupid would be an insult to stupid people. The movie already established that there were roads and automobiles in that area.
7. No, it's not the same thing. Give it a rest.
8. You say that because you have no idea what you're talking about. And yes, the scene does cut away. After Indy throws Vogel out of the air ship, it cuts to where it is well under way. We have no idea how much time has passed. But more time has demonstrably passed than what we see on screen, because Indy sabotaged the radio - this much he tells us, but it was never shown on screen. Pretty impressive work to find an INVISIBLE RADIO (according to you it had to be invisible, since we never actually see it, right?)
9. It is far easier for fighter planes to violate sovereignty than ground troops. It happens all the time even today, when they can immediately be detected doing so. And the fact that there were ONLY two fighters, and nothing more by air or land, strongly suggests that this wasn't Germany. And no, the Germans don't have any jurisdiction there, or local authorities would be all over the place. Which was not the case. German fighters have the reach to get there, but it's not exactly in the neighbourhood or there would have been more fighters scrambled. They thought two would be enough - they were wrong. And since this wasn't German territory, it would take too long to send more fighters.
10. You are completely alone in that opinion. An opinion so absurd that it cannot be taken seriously: your bias is all too obvious. Because you hate this movie, you have already decided that you want to hate everything about it. You are the least objective person I have ever had the misfortune to come across. It really is quite sad.
11. No, when Indy and Henry were talking over a drink they were already well underway. And yes, of course Vogel tried to radio the air ship, but as I have pointed out Indy had sabotaged their radio so Vogel couldn't bally well reach them, could he? Hence the two fighters that were tailing them.
12. No, I have not straw manned you a single time. You have no idea what a straw man is.
5. I don't make up things for other movies, I go by what's in the film, LC is no exception, it has multiple plot holes that you are making excuses for, pathetic.
6. Please you'd have to gain at least 50 IQ points just to be considered stupid. I'll ask again: WHERE DID THEY GET THIS CAR???
7. It's exactly the same thing, try being actually honest for one time in your sad, pathetic life.
8. We know exactly how much time has passed, when Indy sat down they had just taken off, watch the movie again it confirms it. They were in the air literally for a matter of minutes, they did not get far from the airport, even if they made it outside of hostile territory they definitely ended up back in hostile territory because it is going to take just as long for them to run to the access port to steal the plane.
9. If they were outside their jurisdiction (which you haven't proven)then they had already invaded another country. Why they ever would have stopped is another plot hole. The terrain looks like Germany and could easily pass for Germany, again if anything it looks like Spain because that is where it was filmed so if they actually were in Spain then that creates more problems because that means they teleported even further. If I actually grant you your premise then you now have another plot hole to answer for. You are literally shooting yourself in the foot here.
10. Not at all, my opinion is based on an objective observation of this trash film. You are a blind LC fanboy and it's really pathetic. The Force Awakens fanboys were just as bad.
11. They had just taken off, Indy had just gotten back from his encounter with Vogol, please show me where in the film it indicates that an extremely long amount of time had passed???
12. I have explained to you how you have strawmanned me, you don't know what it is, nor do you recognize the multiple logical fallacies that you have committed and I have called you out one. Funny how you have to accept logical fallacies so this
trash movie makes sense. You said that I said that the car they stole was the only car in Europe, I said nothing of the sorts. I said the film presents nothing that would cause a logical person to conclude that they stole another car because there were no other cars in sight. I said that you just made up that they stole another car (which you did) and if you get to make things up then someone else could just make up that Superman gave them a ride. Why do you get to make things up but no one else can? Biased troll.
shareI'm going to call this the greatest movie argument in moviechat.org history!
shareNo, not even close. Go read the "The Karate Kid Part III" boards 😊
shareI did check out the thread about how Miyagi caused Kreese's death and didn't even care. Miyagi the sociopathic bastard!
shareAlso, there is a series of videos about Daniel's "crimes" on YouTube that are hilarious! If you want a good laugh they're very well done, lol.
Here's part one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szUHIM-jgls
Enjoy! 😊
You mean there's MORE THAN ONE PART????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shareLol, oh yeah.
shareI'm thinking "these are Karate Kid movies. Sure, I saw the first one ONCE, and never saw another Karate Kid EVER..heck, I know eventually they had a cute Karate Kid teen girl but I didn't bother watching it..and I like cute teen girls!"
shareI saw the first three and wish I hadn't. The first was good but after that, blech. Just terrible! I haven't bothered watching any other Karata Kid movies.
shareI don't mean to sound rude or condescending but I think you are watching movies for all the wrong reasons. I have seen many of your posts and some of them are so questionable that they almost seem like attempts at trolling.
But I know you are NOT a troll and that is not your intention.
These kinds of movies are not meant to be totally realistic. Yes we want our movies to make some sense but most movies are just for pure entertainment, not to be taken so seriously that every aspect of life needs to be shown.
I am discussing a really bad Indiana Jones moment, this forum is for discussing the movie. I suggest you get over it and either A) contribute to my thread in a productive manner or B) stop posting.
If I’m bothering you that badly there is an ignore button
I feel so sorry for you. You must live a very sad, boring and lonely life as you are obviously a very miserable, toxic person.
Talking to you is like talking to a telephone pole, it goes nowhere. So I am done with you. And no, I will not use the ignore button because then I won't be able to see all the intelligent people who replied to your stupid questions with valid responses that you chose to gloss over. I'll just not reply to you.
Bye bye now!
I accept your concession
share