So in the first challenge I get that Indy has to kneel to show humility before God. But where in the Bible does it say that after kneeling before God you have to do a cartwheel and jump and roll away? What's the point of the blade in the floor?
share"Only the penitent man will pass... the penitent man is humble before God... ducks and rolls before God... ducks and rolls!!!"
shareThat's what makes Indy, Indy. He knew it was a trap, and "rolled" to avoid it.
shareCracked.com just published an explanation that's disturbingly credible:
http://www.cracked.com/article_25082_the-horrifying-easter-egg-everyone-missed-in-indiana-jones.html
In short, the first blade kills people who fail to kneel before God.
The SECOND blade kills people who DO kneel ... but then bow down, Muslim-style.
Makes sense for traps designed by Christians and guarded by Crusaders.
Doesn't work. Because what you call "Muslim style" is actually "Christian style" - that's how Christians used to prostrate themselves. The Muslim practice copies the Christian, which is still used in Orthodox and Catholic churches.
But even if this was purely a Muslim thing, though, it still wouldn't work - because Muslims would have no interest in the grail, as they did not believe Jesus was crucified in the first place. So they would not believe in the existence of a cup that caught the blood of Jesus during a crucifixion which they believe never took place. Besides, Muslims aren't really into relics.
Furthermore, even with the full prostration, the second blade would cut the torso, not the head. Remember, Indy did not prostrate himself like that, and he STILL needed to roll away from the second blade. Why couldn't he just kneel without bowing forward? Because apparently it wasn't enough.
Fair enough - didn't know that about Christian prostration
Found a better answer on TVtropes anyway ... NEITHER blade would've killed a "penitent man" if he knelt at the first "breath" of god. In other words, when the wind starts, the properly penitent man kneels immediately, placing him below the first blade and stopping him before he reaches the second. When Indy dropped, he was already too far along, well within range of the second blade.
Someone there suggested that a penitent man would be inching forward on his hands & knees, below the first blade and slowly enough to trigger the second blade without reaching it.
The other two challenges are broken too, though.
#2 - Indy steps on the wrong letter, but when he falls he catches his falling body on other unsupported letters.
#3 - lllusion would never work unless your head was in one place and never moved. Even walking up to it from the tunnel would make the bridge easily visible.
I'll have to check it out in HD, but I thought Indy grabbed mainly at the edge of the lettered tiles, where it was still solid. I do recall there being very clear "struts" presumably supporting the proper tiles.
But as for #3, there's no defense; anyone with stereoscopic vision (i.e., two eyes) would have to concede that point. The entrance to the bridge was admittedly narrow, restricting the field of view and ability to move one's head, but still ...
... I'll never forget the theater's reaction (including my own), when the camera panned around to "reveal" the bridge's secret. It still makes it a forgivable movie-mistake for me.
(and yes, I realize that camera-angle revelation actually makes the problem worse, not better, because it started at a different viewing point from Indy's head)
I went back & watched it - I was wrong on both counts. He grabbed the tiles ahead of him, which supported him despite not being part of the "name of god." Also, there was nothing supporting the tiles - the struts I saw were in the foreground.
But that only means that many of the tiles were connected and solid, despite not being part of the "IEHOVA." They'd have had to be, in order to form a solid "bridge" around the I,E,H,O, V and A tiles. In retrospect, it looks like many or even most of the tiles were part of a solid platform with just a few "soft and crumbly" trap tiles, like the J and P.
Oh ... meanwhile the bridge problem is worse than I thought. The "paint job" incorporated/mimicked natural lighting, which would've changed with the time of day, season, weather, etc. But it's still one of my all-time favorite movie reveals.
And I'm even more convinced of the TVtropes posters' view regarding the first trap: Indy kneeled too late. He actually would've avoided the second blade anyway if he'd JUST knelt (i.e., not prostrated himself) - I guess he saw it coming and rolled out of the way unnecessarily. But if he'd dropped at the first hint of the "breath of god," he could've knelt AND prostrated himself safely.
Not only that, but when Indy stepped on the letter J, he did not step on a wrong letter. It wasn't until the 16th century at the very earliest that the letter j became distinct from the letter i. Prior to that, I and J were the same letter. J was a long I, same way as there was the long and the short S.
shareI think we have to assume the knight took breaks from his vigil and went out to see the world.
There, he (A) learned English, (B) learned about this new letter, "J" and (C) aged (which is how he got so old - had he stayed in the cave, drinking only from the grail, he might've looked younger).
Yes, but I remembered another thing:
Indy jammed the mechanism with rope. What if he hadn't? He would have to crawl carefully where it was safe, but that makes the second blade all the more dangerous - and baffling. The penitent man crawls before God? He'll still have a bad day unless he stops the mechanism somehow. If he doesn't, I don't see any other solution except leaping over the second blade like Indy did.
Which also begs the question: How did Indy know about the second blade? It is implied in the movie (and stated in plain text in the comic, which is based on the original script) that the blade moves too fast to be seen. So how did Indy know about the second blade?
No matter how you cut it (no pun intended), the decision to add a second blade in the movie was just silly.
The rope Indy jammed it with was already there, complete with a convenient loop to hook around the mechanism's pegs
In other words, the mechanism was intended to be stopped by anyone surviving it (and, by extension, anyone who knows about it, like the knights themselves)
as for how Indy even knew about the second blade - maybe after kneeling, he noticed the slot where the second blade would emerged, and rolled to avoid whatever might come out of that slot. From the very beginning of "Raiders," he's demonstrated to be cautious about holes or slots as possible booby traps.
I only JUST spotted a YouTube commenter who had an interesting point regarding Muslim prostration vs. Christian kneeling.
Muslims may have copied Christian prostration, but the REAL question is how did crusaders kneel?
After all, they're the ones who built those traps.
Now I'm no historian, but all the old woodcuts show the classic Paladin pose, i.e., kneeling without prostration, holding one's sword out in front.
"A knight is sworn to valor ..."
So maybe the Cracked theory works after all.
Still, at this point, I'm more satisfied with the argument that Indy just didn't kneel soon enough.
If he'd knelt at the first "breath of god," he'd be out of range of the vertical blade no matter how he knelt.
>Doesn't work. Because what you call "Muslim style" is actually "Christian style" - that's how Christians used to
>prostrate themselves. The Muslim practice copies the Christian, which is still used in Orthodox and Catholic churches.
If that's true, you only know it because you're a fucking internet nerd. When they were making the movie in 1988, it's very likely whoever designed this scene had no idea that Muslims stole the concept of prostration from Christianity and assumed it was strictly Islamic.
If that's true, you only know it because you're a fucking internet nerd. When they were making the movie in 1988, it's very likely whoever designed this scene had no idea that Muslims stole the concept of prostration from Christianity and assumed it was strictly Islamic.
Muslims don't believe in Buddha either, but that didn't stop them from seeking out 2000 year old Buddhist statues so they could destroy them. That's just one example. Militant Islamists (i.e. the type of Muslims involved in the crusades) love to get their jollies by destroying revered relics from other religions.
shareHoly crap, I just laughed too freaking hard at this
shareWe are all desperately trying to explain this, but perhaps the truth is in the clues. The traps are there to avoid those not in-the-know to ever enter. The clues are not written to help anyone who randomly has them to enter, the clues are there to assist the right ones to enter….
Perhaps the clues in Dr Jones Sr's handbook are simply too vague for anyone outside of the Templar Knights... they are clues meant for them only and they know this sentence means that two blades are coming... even the old knight believed Indy was such a knight... as only the knights should ever be able to break the code. Had the instructions been precise.... anyone could have entered ....
Just to beat this dead horse...
I finally saw this scene in HD.
Indy didn’t have to roll at all. When he kneels, the floor blade’s slot is just in front of him.
He rolled as a reaction to the blade, but he was actually already safe.
Which confirms the TVtropes theory for me: the wall blade kills you if you don’t kneel, while the floor blade kills you if you don’t kneel soon enough.
Also, I think there’s some merit to the notion that the clues themselves are purposefully vague. Popular fiction portrays Templars as having all sorts of arcane rules, codes and practices, so it’d fit well within Indy’s pulp fiction universe.
BUT ... if that were really the case, there’d have been more “Da Vinci Code” stuff in this film. Henry and Indy (and maybe Marcus) would be well versed in Templar lore. Hard to believe they’d have overlooked any Templar arcana in their quest.
On the second challenge when he falls he holds onto the floor in front of him which is not the letter i.
Wouldn't that floor piece fall apart as well?
Addressed that above
To reiterate: the below-view showed nothing supporting the tiles besides each other.
A good number of tiles would have to be safe, even if they were NOT labeled with I, E, H, O, V, A and H.
Then what would be the point of the challenge?
Even if you misspell the name, there is a chance you can still step on a solid letter?
Hell no
In the theatre the bridge scene was amazing. This was the first THX surround deep note intro I remember and it was pretty awesome. Apparently it started with Return of the Jedi. Even the green screen compositing looked real which by today’s standards looks terrible.
Nonetheless it’s a great movie.