Doesn't it seem extraordinarily dangerous and stupid to be walking in flammable oil carrying a GIANT FREAKING FLAME? And you could see sparks falling off it if into the liquid. He really should've had a flashlight, no? And yes, the bad guys DID set the entire thing on fire, so we know it was possible, but Indy's flaming torch with sparks falling off did NOT ignite the liquid they were standing in. Anyway...
shareYeah that always struck me as odd considering a bit of his torch falls off right into the water,err...petroleum and should have lit it all up. Nowadays they would probably CG that out so it's just a mistake n the filmmakers' part.
shareYes, it is by all accounts ludicrous!
The petroleum should have caught fire at the drop of the first spark from that torch.
As a side note, it should have been more or less impossible for them to breath in that petroleum fume filled cave.
impossible for them to breath
Not necessarily. While it is capable of burning, it isn't necessarily going to just go up like gasoline. Some petroleum based fuels have much higher flashpoints than others. Gasoline for example has a flashpoint (the temperature where the liquid will burn when exposed to an ignition source) of roughly -45 degrees F, while diesel fuel has a flashpoint that ranges from about 126-205 degrees F. Under normal conditions you can throw a match in a puddle of diesel and it will not ignite, when under the same conditions a gasoline puddle will easily be ignited.
shareNot necessarily. While it is capable of burning, it isn't necessarily going to just go up like gasoline. Some petroleum based fuels have much higher flashpoints than others. Gasoline for example has a flashpoint (the temperature where the liquid will burn when exposed to an ignition source) of roughly -45 degrees F, while diesel fuel has a flashpoint that ranges from about 126-205 degrees F. Under normal conditions you can throw a match in a puddle of diesel and it will not ignite, when under the same conditions a gasoline puddle will easily be ignited.
Ok, I hadn't watched it in a while. If that were the case the fumes probably would have caused a flashover, unless the concentration was above the UEL (upper explosive limit), in which case the oxygen levels would be too low and everyone would have asphyxiated. Hollywood suspends science quite a bit. Still enjoy the movie.
shareJust a point, that wasn't the bad guy. That was one of the Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword, the group protecting the Grail. They might be ruthless, but they were not the villains in this piece.
shareAnd look at my post below. Indy initially fought the Brotherhood before he knew what they were, then he made friends with them. Part of the adventure serial motif.
Thats not true. Gasoline will NOT burn in liquid form. Only in gaseous form. Diesel however will burn in liquid form, but as you mentioned requires ignotion temperatures they would not be able to produce with a lighter.
I think you got the right idea just got diesel and gasoline mixed up.
Diesel will not burn in liquid form, either. Nothing burns in liquid form; only gas ever burns. Even wood: it's the gas that forms on the surface that burns, not the solid material itself. Any solid object, and any body of liquid, will burn on the surface only.
Because of its low flashpoint, gasoline can be ignited by dropping a match to a puddle of gasoline - because there are always fumes above the liquid itself, and the heat of the match will cause more liquid to evaporate. You may get lucky and there is not enough time before the match is extinguished, but there are plenty of cases where people have not been so lucky. All in all, everything that FellinMud said, is correct.
Well no, some objects will burn in solid form, carbon for example. But yes, for the purpose of this argument this is correct.
No, gasoline cannot be ignored this way. The fumes have to be in certain mix with oxygen in the air to be ignitable, otherwise they simply wont.
And if the fumes are mixed with the oxygen in the air, such as is usually the case immediately above the liquid, it *can* be ignited this way.
shareThe only plausible answer to what was in the caves would have been crude oil, you wouldn't have had a gasoline or diesel pipeline or underground storage tank leaking product into the crypt. Which means you don't actually have gasoline or diesel you only have crude oil and the associated products within it. Now while crude oil has a lt of different petroleum based chemicals in it and many will have a strong odor, the reality is the number that are going to be in a gaseous form is going to be limited and a large portion of those will be heavier than air and linger down around the waterline far from the area where the torch is burning. Other thing to consider is that in order to get a poof type burst of flames from any flammable gas you need the right amount of air to gas ratio for it to happen. If it isn't just right you won't get the poof type combustion. So even if the crude had been letting off a highly flammable gas it was still unlikely that you would have a perfect mix at torch level. I recall watching a guy poor a cup of gasoline on a barrel of limbs that he was going to burn. The barrel had holes at the bottom to allow air into the trash/limbs... the problem is he forgot to bring matches to then he went and found some, all the while the gasoline was going from liquid to gas... however because the gasoline vapor is heavier than air it was lingering around the ground level, that was very clear when he tossed in the lit match because it made the classic poof fire ball in the 55 gallon barrel of limbs and fire shot out the holes at the bottom and all along the ground in about a 20 yard circle right above the ground burning his legs a bit. In the cave you would have expected that same thing to happen the torch might have caused a poof but only if you got it low enough.
share"Diesel will not burn in liquid form, either. Nothing burns in liquid form; only gas ever burns. Even wood"
Where the heck do you find WOOD in liquid form??
I didn't say wood came in liquid form. I said it burns in gas form. And it's not the wood itself, but the gases released by the wood as it heats.
shareDoesn't it seem extraordinarily dangerous and stupid to be walking in flammable oil carrying a GIANT FREAKING FLAME? And you could see sparks falling off it if into the liquid. He really should've had a flashlight, no? And yes, the bad guys DID set the entire thing on fire, so we know it was possible, but Indy's flaming torch with sparks falling off did NOT ignite the liquid they were standing in. Anyway...Good point; it does seem a bit far-fetched. share
No, Indy is cool. The thing that is unrealistic here is that the bad guy can flame the whole thing up. Because this would be impossible.
Petroleum oil needs a material-conductor to be useful as a flame-fuel. One reason why it is safely used in oil lamps for example. Only the wick burns. In fact, if you drop a lit match in a bucket of patrelium oil, it will likely go out, or at worst only the match will burn out as it floats....
... so what Indy did was safe enough as long as he would keep the flame away from his soaked clothes, and btw the oils would not necessarily reek enough for the library to ever know about it either, as an oil it is self contained (to a degree)... except these facts were unknown to the bad guy when he lit it up...
Contrary to popular myth - it would actually be alright. Petroleum would only ignite at certain mixture in air and in situation like this the mixture levels would not match (too high petroleum to oxygen ratio). On the other hand, he would not be able to ignore that torch to begin with. Petrolium does not burn in liquid form like that. In fact the bad guys would not been able to set it on fire either if it was in reality.
Furthermore, a cigarette lighter does not burn hot enough to ignite petroleum, so the whole scene was a non-starter.
I agree, that was a poorly written action sequence.
And I also have always noticed those bits of fire falling from the torch to the petroleum and thought "why is it not catching fire like it does 2 minutes later when the other guy does it?"
(ohmyfuckinggod) IT'S A FUCKING MOVIE, based off those old adventure serials where the hero would get up to all sorts of unbelievable hi-jinks and get into all manner of improbable dangers, only to miraculously get out of them by the following week! George Lucas knows this, and so does Stephen Spielberg! GET A LIFE!