I heard there were African Americans that willingly fought for the Confederacy ? is this true ? if so does anyone know why they would do this? I also heard that they were employed By Nathan Bedfored Forrest the guy that started the KKK, now im officialy confused.
shareHi Karneda92,
The Black Confederates is a recurrent thread on this board and on all Civil War boards. There is a self-published book by one of the Sons of the Confederacy called Black Confederates. I have it and have read it. By "willingly fought", did you mean, eat, drink, drill with white troops as comrade in arms? If so, no. Blacks were not allowed to be armed though the authors claim that around 20 or 30 blacks bore arms but couldn't give names or locations. If you meant cook, bury the dead, do laundry, drive mule teams, dig ditches and trenches, yes, blacks certainly worked for the Confederacy. There were also number of slaves who acted as valets followed their masters into war, either because they ordered to or willingly. There are a number of articles on the web questioning the Myth of the Black Confederates too.
sorry i never really knew that this thread has been countlessly brought up, do you know where i can buy this book ?
shareHi Karneda92,
It's on the net, just Google Black Confederates or check out Amazon.
Many people are suspicious and even dismissive of such claims.
The roles of blacks in service of the Confederacy have been controversial because assertions of willing service in the war have been made by white racists with dubious motives.
However, I think it is clear that black slaves did play some role in the Confederate defense. They definitively played some role as servants and in support roles.
Less clear is whether a significant number of black slaves actually served in the Confederate military and participated in combat. It has been argued that black slaves viewed the "Northern Aggression" into the South as an invasion of the homeland just like the white population.
People who dismiss the notion of Black Confederates are wrong. Late in the War the South authorized the creation of battalions manned by slaves. There is plenty of photographic evidence of uniformed and armed blacks in Confederate uniform. You can refer to this very good web site on the subject:
http://blackconfederatesoldiers.com/index.html
There are two larger questions that this raises:
1) Was the role of blacks in the Confederate armies significant?
I don't see any evidence that it was, other than in support positions such as cooks.
2) Does the presence of blacks in the Confederate armies add legitimacy to the Southern cause?
I don't see how.
Slavery was not the only issue that brought the nation to Civil War, but it was the great moral issue underlying the conflict. The south stood to perpetuate a truly heinous institution.
A close inspection of an historical period always identifies contradictions to stereotypes. Not all Slave holders were evil and not all master-slave relationships were the same, but they were all profoundly wrong.
I was born in the house my father built
Excellent post Judger.
"I shall tread uncommon wary and keep my pepperbox handy."
Not all Slave holders were evil...Ownership of another human as property is inherently evil. share
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Making a person work for you by force and without pay is inherently evil, especially when the force is racially driven. You've got to be seriously morally corrupted to think otherwise.
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I don't think humane is the appropriate word to use for someone who forces another into lifelong bondage.
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Keep in mind that once you say that A = B, you have also said that B = A.
In other words, without disagreeing with you and the essential evil of owning another person, some slave owners must have been more evil than others, and therefor some must have been less evil than others.
Good people sometimes perform evil acts and even the most evil people sometimes perform good acts. It is difficult for me to think of anything that Stalin or Hitler did that is good. Hitler seems to have loved his dog, but I think he poisoned her to test the cyanide pill he was about to give Eva.
Nevertheless, I cling to Yin and Yang. Even slave holders must have been less than pure evil.
The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.
And let's not forget there were Black slave owners and traders as well. Let the liberals play a race card on that one.
share@guyinwesthouston
And let's not forget there were Black slave owners and traders as well. Let the liberals play a race card on that one.
What the hell do you mean by "playing the race card"? Fck that stupid "race card" s***,---there is no such fckn thing. Race is not a fckn game anyone plays---it's always been a very REAL problem and always has been for people of color. And were a very small number of black slave owners, and the "slaves" they owned were actually their own family members whom they bought out of slavery so that they could stay together. White folks always like throwing that fact about black slave owners up as if it justifies your white ancestors having enslaved us in the first place, and as a way to deflect from those same ancestors having been slavemasters. Newsflash---no it fckn dosen't justify a damn thing that was done to my ancestors, so fck off with that bull****.
Also, none of these Black Confederates were ever allowed to see battle,and they certainly were never near anywhere enough to claim that they supported the Civil War----the majority of slaves wanted to get the fck of the South and fight for the Union, not the Confederacy that wanted to keep them enslaved. So really, the whole "Black Confederates" thing is just some straws these Sons of the Confederacy have grasped to claim that there were black slaves on their sides---yeah, right,that's really stretching it.
Good post. But you should refrain from swearing. It doesn't add anything to your sentiment, on the contrary.
People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs
Louis Napoleon Nelson was one such confederate! And he was happy with his service to visit a troop reunion years later!
shareAnd just how many of these guys were there compared to the tens of thousands who fought for the Union? The African-American troops fighting for the U.S. have monuments, such as that at Petersburg, outside Richmond, for the black Pennsylvania unit that launched the initial assault on the Confederate fortifications, and the famous one to the 54th Massachussetts in Washington, DC. I've seen them both and maybe others have too on this thread. Where are the monuments to any black confederates?
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...And just how many of these guys were there compared to the tens of thousands who fought for the Union?
...Where are the monuments to any black confederates?
There were attempts to organize black regiments at various times, but until the final months of the war the Confederate government vetoed this. A Louisiana militia regiment was organized entirely of blacks early in the war, but once Richmond heard about it they ordered it disbanded immediately. Supposedly there was a company of Virginia blacks who served with Lee in the final days of the war but they never saw combat.
There were cases of individual blacks fighting with the Confederates, but these were few and far between. Unless you count slaves conscripted to build fortifications, dig trenches, etc. which isn't exactly voluntary. Certainly compared to the 180,000+ blacks who fought with the Union army, they were a negligible factor in the war.
Two reasons why slaves might have initially supported the Confederacy. One, simple patriotism: they probably shared their master's view of an outside threat to their country and rallied around the Confederate flag. Keep in mind that slaves had served in the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812 too. Two, because the Union government did not make the war overtly anti-slavery until September 1862, so the alternative initially wasn't necessarily better. On the other hand, after Union troops began to occupy the South, and certainly after the Proclamation, most slaves lost any loyalty to their masters and home states, whether or not they openly rebelled or took up arms.
"That's what the elves call Justice of the Unicorn!"
There were attempts to organize black regiments at various times, but until the final months of the war the Confederate government vetoed this. A Louisiana militia regiment was organized entirely of blacks early in the war, but once Richmond heard about it they ordered it disbanded immediately. Supposedly there was a company of Virginia blacks who served with Lee in the final days of the war but they never saw combat.
Hi NoahBody,
In the newest episode of the PBS television show, History Detectives, broadcast a fascinating story about Black Confederates based on the Chandler Family tintype that had been shown on the Antiques Roadshow. While it makes it clear that very few black actually carried arms for the Confederacy, I think you'll find it interesting.
Your article is certainly full of good examples of individual (and also multiple) incidents of colored men participating in the war however, the bottom line is not until the very end of the war when manpower and hope was at it's lowest "Authority for this was finally received from the State of Virginia and on April 1st 1865" did the Confederate Government authorize the formation of black regiments.
shareExactly!
shareThat's just neo-Confederate propaganda, my friend. It's something you must be very careful to avoid. Most of your claims take place in 1864 or beyond, when the South was scraping the bottom of the barrel for manpower. A deathbed conversion if there ever was one. Yes, there were some blacks who fought for the rebels. Yes, there were certainly a lot of black laborers who performed duties around camp. No, the rebel government never seriously considered equipping large numbers of black soldiers until the end of the war. Regarding the book "Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees," the author himself admits that only approximately 300 blacks in Virginia received compensation for their services, out of 500,000 total blacks in the state. He goes further to state that there were far more Virginia blacks who were willing to support the Union, and that black Confederates were a minority within a minority. I also have access to reviews from professional historians, and their reviews are largely unfavorable. Here's a bit from Dr. Steven Miller of the University of Maryland. Source: The Journal of American History, June 1996.
"Attempting to restore Afro-Confederates to the historical stage, Jordan overcorrects, assigning marginal bit players to the role of principals. Much of his case rests on anecdotal evidence, to which he gives a less skeptical reading than it deserves. He is unduly inclined to regard public avowals of Confederate patriotism by black people as sincere and voluntary acts and to downplay the coercion and terror that shaped their response to a war to preserve slavery."
And if you're using the SCV to back up your sources, I'd seriously re-examine them and use a real book. You might as well be using Stormfront sources for commenting on a movie about World War Two. The SCV used to simply be a heritage organization like Daughters of the American Revolution, but now it's just a club for deluded Lost Causers.
Furthermore, black Union soldiers were eventually given equal pay. It took until summer of 1864 but it was done. The rebels' official policy towards captured black soldiers was also atrocious and reflected their attitudes toward blacks in general.
How did I miss this fabulous post?
Black Confederate soldiers were also mentioned in Ken Burns Civil War Series. I just watched it again with my daughter, who had it on a list of things to watch before starting her US History class.
I'm not surprised. As someone else mentioned, there were black slave owners.
Even back in Africa, tribe members traded/sold other tribe members to whites to be carried to America.
Hell, black on black crime is high today. Very little respect for one another apparently.
So I'm not surprised that there were Black Confederates. It figures.
Wow. So, based on your logic of people of the the same skin color killing each other, white people apparently have a lot of problems, too- The Hundred Years' War; The English Civil War; The French & Indian War; the American Revolution; the Napoleonic Wars; the War of 1812; the Civil War; the Franco-Prussian War; and World Wars I & II, the wars in Bosnia and the violence between the Irish and English.
There were blacks who owned slaves. And I'm sure at some point, a black man in the Confederacy fired a gun at a Union soldier. But black slaveowners and black Confederate soldiers are statistically insignificant to the stories of slavery, based on white supremacy, and the Civil War.
I think you make the mistake that many people make today- you try to understand the present without understanding the past.
Well, "Wow" to you, too. I understand both the present and the past indeed - and people are people. They'll do WHATEVER to get over. NOT all people, but ENOUGH. I don't care what color their skin is, but I'm black, so I'm saying what I know about SOME black people. I know there's bad people in EVERY race.
I'm a tad bit tired of people right now, if one hasn't noticed... :-/
And let's not forget there were Black slave owners and traders as well. Let the liberals play a race card on that one.It's amazing what people think is clever.
baeksuThat's called a "False dichotomy". Do you have any valid replies to offer or are fallacies your only weapon? share
So there were black slaveowners. Obviously that means that slavery was ok?
I've see the man who "re-enacts" the Black Confederate Soldier. Yes, there may have been individual moments when a body servant or other negro on the southern side fired a gun at the north but the reality is the southern government was too terrified of slave insurrection to arm them. Lee knew that the south was severely deficient in numbers of able bodied men and lobbied for black regiments but not until early 1865 did the southern government relent. There were black troops being trained in Richmond when it fell to the North.
shareAnd let's not forget there were Black slave owners and traders as well.
Larry Koger wrote an excellent book on black slaveowners-it's available at Amazon. One of the points he makes, and I believe it's a very valid one, is that there were black slaveowners because the institution of slavery was such a powerful one that most people in the south thought it was right to use slavery as a means of making money. In other words, slavery was such a strong base to the economy that people of all colors deferred to it and defended it. Looked at in that light, it's not hard to believe that there were probably a number of blacks who preferred the status quo and tried to defend it.
http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/
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Thanks Karneda for bringing this up!! I had no idea...well really I'd never thought of searching for this topic until I saw your question/post on here. I would assume the black men that fought for the confederate army were either forced or they were treated well (as well as slaves were to be treated) and felt fearful of freedom since they mostly were illiterate, and had no job training or skills. That's just my observation and opinion, not trying to sound racist or anything like that.
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