MovieChat Forums > Do the Right Thing (1989) Discussion > Great film.... but Sal forgot how to run...

Great film.... but Sal forgot how to run an American business.

posted 12 years ago by dasein_williams
87 replies | jump to latest

The double standards in American culture are amazing sometimes...

I don't think there was anything unreasonable about asking Sal to put some black stars on his wall of fame. He was in a black neighborhood. Making money off of black customers in a black community.

The customer is always right, remember? Isn't that what we say in America? (Or does that not apply if the customer is not the right color? It's not about cultural sensitivity... it's about Sal having good business sense.)

Many Americans (of every color, including black) will get up in arms about the AUDACITY of Buggin Out wanting black people on Sal's Wall of Fame... but have no problems complaining bitterly that the person helping them on the customer support line has a strong Indian accent... or that the signs in their local bank are written in both Spanish & English (or Chinese & English) instead of being English-only.

If you're in a business, you cater to your clientele. Period. It's the American way. You only want Italians on the wall? Make sure you have enough Italian customers coming to that black neighborhood to stay in business and then you don't have a problem.

Where Sal went wrong is in thinking he could come into a community, run his pizzeria without customer input, and then try to get violent in response. Had Sal not threatened Buggin with a baseball bat for verbally expressing himself, he wouldn't have set off the chain of events that followed, the least of which was the burning of his pizzeria. Somebody was killed, remember?

[–] MovieMatters 12 years ago

Yes that's so true, exactly how I would've put it! I'm British & in England but if I had a business I wouldn't do things like Sal did. I'd respect all customers, all nations.

[–] timlin-4 12 years ago

So you're saying he should have served chitlins, greens, and watermelon? His customers had no problems with an Italian restaurant with Italian decor, it was only that one creep and his dullard friend. If black people want to stand behind the lowest trash in their communities that is the highest level that their community will reach.

[–] dasein_williams 12 years ago

I don't believe I made any comment about the menu. Why would you think that Sal would serve chitlins, greens and watermelon? Oh, because his customers are black? Careful, your stereotypes are showing. I might have assumed they'd prefer spinach and feta on their pizza like I do.

But to answer your not-so-subtle troll, yes, if the black or white customers of a pizzeria owner eventually asked for "chitlins, greens and watermelon," with their pizza then yes... a SMART business person who wants to stay in business would adapt. He wouldn't threaten them with a baseball bat. A DUMB business person who doesn't want to adapt would go out of business. Simple.

"If black people want to stand behind the lowest trash in their communities that is the highest level that their community will reach."

Based on many of the comments I've seen in these threads, there's more than enough trash of every nationality and color to be avoided. No need to uphold black people specifically to a higher standard than any other cultural group in America. The same applies to EVERYONE.

(Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go and celebrate high American moral standards by watching highly-rated "Teenage Mom" and "Jersey Shore" on MTV).

[–] franzkabuki 11 years ago

"His customers had no problems with an Italian restaurant with Italian decor, it was only that one creep and his dullard friend. If black people want to stand behind the lowest trash in their communities, that is the highest that their community will reach".

Excellent post, Timlin-4; get ya a case of beer for that. Also, to take issue with the interior design of someone`s private business is sort of silly & slightly outta line to begin with (as long as there are no photos of, idk, Mussolini or Ku Klux Klan members up on the wall), but to `demand` a redecoration is simply outrageous.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

[–] Iceman-15 12 years ago

I don't think there was anything unreasonable about asking Sal to put some black stars on his wall of fame. He was in a black neighborhood. Making money off of black customers in a black community.

I don't their was anything unreasonable, either. He asked, and Sal said no. If he didn't like it, he could go somewhere else.

The customer is always right, remember? Isn't that what we say in America? (Or does that not apply if the customer is not the right color? It's not about cultural sensitivity... it's about Sal having good business sense.)

The customer is always right--to a degree. The customer cannot tell you how to run your business. No need to play the race card, it's not about color.

Many Americans (of every color, including black) will get up in arms about the AUDACITY of Buggin Out wanting black people on Sal's Wall of Fame... but have no problems complaining bitterly that the person helping them on the customer support line has a strong Indian accent... or that the signs in their local bank are written in both Spanish & English (or Chinese & English) instead of being English-only

Bad analogy.

They're up in arms because requesting pictures of black people in someone else's Italian Pizzeria is a stupid plot point. Nobody complains about pictures on a wall. And theirs no reason to complain about Indian accents unless the person is not understood. And please, tell me, why would someone complain about multi-languages in a bank? Sorry, but that kind of suggestion is really stupid.

If you're in a business, you cater to your clientele. Period. It's the American way. You only want Italians on the wall? Make sure you have enough Italian customers coming to that black neighborhood to stay in business and then you don't have a problem.

You cater to the clientele by giving good service, and having a good product. You're not catering to the clientele by letting every Tom, Dick and Harry tell you how to decorate your establishment. Only a fool would do that. But again, it's a free country. If you don't like it, don't come back. THAT'S the "American way."

Where Sal went wrong is in thinking he could come into a community, run his pizzeria without customer input, and then try to get violent in response. Had Sal not threatened Buggin with a baseball bat for verbally expressing himself, he wouldn't have set off the chain of events that followed, the least of which was the burning of his pizzeria. Somebody was killed, remember?

I think you meant to say, come into a "black" community. Because that's the only place someone is gonna riot and destroy your business. And yes, unfortunately, Sal thought he could run his business in this black community, and that the citizens would be civil. One of the messages of this film is don't assume blacks will be civil.

And just a little tip for you: This movie is not a 100% truthful representation of black people. 99.9% of blacks living in this country couldn't care less about pictures on a wall when they go into a restaurant. All black people care about is good food. Just like everybody else.

I graduated from the college of the streets, I gotta Phd in how to make ends meet.

[–] dasein_williams 12 years ago

"The customer is always right--to a degree. The customer cannot tell
you how to run your business. No need to play the race card, it's not
about color."
Umm... Sorry, but I'm not going to legitimize your use of the phrase "race card" as a way of stifling conversations about race that make you uncomfortable. When race is relevant, I'll raise it as an issue. You are free to respond or ignore me. But no one has the right to tell another human being when it's appropriate to bring up racism, sexism or any other -ism. To do so is arrogant and self-serving.

"They're up in arms because requesting pictures of black people in
someone else's Italian Pizzeria is a stupid plot point. Nobody complains
about pictures on a wall."
It's stupid TO YOU. But just because YOU don't see the value in that perspective, doesn't make their concerns irrelevant. Images are powerful. Your own image reflected in your community is even more powerful. That's why Buggin Out wants to see blacks on Sal's wall. It's mind-boggling to me that someone would dismiss people (even one) wanting to see themselves reflected on a "fame wall" in their own community (in a place where they spend "much money").

"I think you meant to say, come into a "black" community. Because
that's the only place someone is gonna riot and destroy your business."
Yawn. Your flamebait is too obvious. If you educated yourself just a tiny bit, you'd know that the majority of 20th century riots were white-led and usually occurred when white communities either felt racially/economically threatened (early 20th century) by some outside group or after some sports franchise had won a championship (late 20th century). When American blacks have rioted, it's been spurred by a feeling of social and racial injustice. In any event, no one group has a monopoly on violent behavior in America. The fact that you're more upset over the destruction of property in this movie than the destruction of human life speaks volumes in support of that notion.

"This movie is not a 100% truthful representation of black people.
99.9% of blacks living in this country couldn't care less about pictures
on a wall when they go into a restaurant."
Umm, no movie is a 100% truthful representation of ANY group. It's a MOVIE. By definition it's subjective. And FYI, there are over 39 million blacks in the U.S. Have you met 99.9% of blacks? Have you met even 0.01% of blacks? I couldn't tell you what 99.9% of ANY group feels... then again, I'm not arrogant enough to make that claim.

One more thing: You claim to HATE this movie, but you seem to have spent YEARS trolling almost every thread for this film. It's clear you don't have an issue with the movie so much as you have an axe to grind with American blacks. You just happen to use these movie threads as a cover for doing so. You may not realize it, but it's obvious... and it's boring. There are other sites where you can do race-baiting. It would be interesting if you actually had something thought-provoking to say about the film or the thread subject instead of REPEATEDLY trying to flamebait... or dismissing things you don't like/understand as "stupid."

[–] Consul_Incitatus 12 years ago

It disturbs me that you even think this.

In my home town there is a Mexican-run restaurant. It has pictures of Mexicans in it. Most of the locals are of German or Scandinavian descent.

If someone came in and angrily demanded that the owners put up pictures of Norwegians, the other customers would laugh at him. If he came in with a huge boombox playing country music really loud, the other customers would boo loudly and tell him to get lost.

Look, if you don't like the decor, for any reason, then just don't go there. If enough locals were annoyed at the lack of black people pictures that they stopped coming, then Sal might as a business decision decide to change. That is the normal, civilized way of expressing displeasure with a business's service. Even if IMHO its a perfectly idiotic thing to care about.

[–] Consul_Incitatus 12 years ago

By the way, whites haven't really been in the rioting business for decades, so I kind of fail to see how that is relevant to anything.

[–] Iceman-15 12 years ago

Okay, let me make this easy for you.

When I go into a Chinese restaurant, I don't wanna see pictures of Chow Yun Fat, Zhang Ziyi, and Jackie Chan, next to a picture of Will Smith. I want the Chinese flavor; the Chinese experience. When I go into a Mexican restaurant, I don't want to see a picture of Salma Hayek next to a picture of Halle Berry. When I go into an Italian restaurant, I don't want to see pictures of Robert DeNiro next to a picture of Denzel Washington. I want the Italian experence. I want to smell the spaghetti!

In all those examples, putting pictures of black people on the wall spoils the restaurant's intended ambiance. Also, due to the phoney and condescending nature of the gesture, i.e, "Hey brother, have a seat... you see? We have a picture of Denzel up there. Now you can relax, eat your food and not act like an ass hole," it pisses me off. Maybe people like you need others to be phoney and condescending. I, on the otherhand, don't.

You see, Spike Lee has brainwashed people like you. He's played a cheap, Jedi mind trick on you and you fell for it. Spike Lee said: "Having pictures of black people on the wall in an Italian pizzeria is a valid suggestion." And you repeated it word for word. And like a Jedi mind trick, only the weak minded are vulnerable, that means you better sit down and do a little self-analysis.

I graduated from the college of the streets, I gotta Phd in how to make ends meet.

[–] DC-Tiki 12 years ago

I absolutely agree with your sentiments but I didn't think Spike Lee intended for the audience to side with Buggin Out. That's not what I got from the film at all, I thought he was trying to bring to light the ridiculousness of the issue of a picture on a wall nearly leading to a race riot. Personally I also thought Sal had every right to put whatever he wants up on that wall, if you don't like it don't go there. But even if you don't side with Sal you still end up with the same tragic consequences. The neighbourhood in the film lost it's favourite pizzeria through succumbing to mob mentality, most of them weren't really on any 'side' at all. I doubt Sal will be coming back to this neighbourhood to start up another one with his insurance money - none of them will ever taste those fine cheese-less pizza slices ever again. And let's not forget that someone also lost their life over this non-issue which is an absolute tragedy and a pointless death. At the end of the day racial intolerance and socio-economic frustrations led to there being no winners or losers and I think that is Spike Lee's purpose for the film. The film is posing thought-provoking questions on the audience to face up to issues we, as a society, must face and try to resolve to avoid these situations arising. I don't think we were supposed to really side with one character or another, or point fingers and blame, but rather recognise and indentify the flaws and errors the characters made and ask ourselves would we have done the right thing if we found ourselves in this same predicament? Will we do anything to prevent them happening somewhere in the future?

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] SamoanJoes 9 years ago

Did anyone notice in the studio where the radio DJ was, there was no white people on on the wall behind him. Also during a voice-over monologue he was giving about people of significance he wanted to thank, no white people were mentioned. Nobody at any point of the movie called the DJ out on this. Buggin' Out walked by there all the time and he was completely fine with it.

[–] activista 11 years ago

@Iceman-15

"I think you meant to say, come into a "black" community. Because that's the only place someone is gonna riot and destroy your business. And yes, unfortunately, Sal thought he could run his business in this black community, and that the citizens would be civil. One of the messages of this film is don't assume blacks will be civil."

That's some racist bull**** you just said right there. As if black people don't want to live in nice,quiet communities---they do, just like anybody else, and yes, we can be civil to each other,just like everyone else. The bottom line is, Buggin' Out had EVERY damn right to insist that pictures of black people be put on the damn wall,because it was THE black community Sal was in that was supporting HIM with THEIR money. That's why it wasn't unreasonable to ask him to do that. If Sal hadn't acted like such an a**hole, and threatening people with a bat, that whole incident would not have jumped off the way it did.

And another thing---white business owners traditionally would come into a black neighborhood, be racist as hell and treat their black customers like s***, and not contribute a damn thing to that same black community they were making a living off of. That's what really was behind Buggin' Out's insistence that the pics of black folks be on the walls,which Sal could easily done---I never understood what the hell his problem was with that, until you saw him reveal his true racist colors. The customer can't tell you how to run your business, but they can damn sure boycott your store and put you OUT of business if they feel like you are just disrespecting them as customers. They have THAT right,too.

[–] gmc-catalin 11 years ago

The bottom line is, Buggin' Out had EVERY damn right to insist that pictures of black people be put on the damn wall,because it was THE black community Sal was in that was supporting HIM with THEIR money. That's why it wasn't unreasonable to ask him to do that. If Sal hadn't acted like such an a**hole, and threatening people with a bat, that whole incident would not have jumped off the way it did.

Buggin Out was thrown out of the goddamn restaurant, he wasn't allowed there. Raheem came with his radio and played music loudly even though told him to stop it. How the *beep* are they justified in any single way?

If you want to boycott a store, then fine! Just don't come and eat a pizza from them again. But you don't create a scandal like a *beep* bum into the place.

And another thing---white business owners traditionally would come into a black neighborhood, be racist as hell and treat their black customers like s***, and not contribute a damn thing to that same black community they were making a living off of.

Are you sick in the head? How the hell was he not contributing since he had a successful restaurant in that neighborhood for decades? The guy was even proud of himself knowing that he provided food for all those people for so long.

But anyway, I'd rather shut up. Maybe I'm doing something wrong expressing my own opinions and you might come to kill me and burn my place down - since that's the right way to solve a dispute according to you.

[–] screenscreams 10 years ago

And yes, unfortunately, Sal thought he could run his business in this black community, and that the citizens would be civil. One of the messages of this film is don't assume blacks will be civil.

Sal wasn't civil. He reaped what he sowed.

[–] Iceman-15 10 years ago

"Sal wasn't civil. He reaped what he sowed."

Hummm... Are you sure about that? Early on, Sal seemed to be nice enough to give Smiley some money. How did Smiley show his gratitude? While Radio Raheem was trying to murder him, Smiley was seen spitting on him!

Somehow, just typing that makes me angry.

I graduated from the college of the streets, I gotta Phd in how to make ends meet.

[–] screenscreams 10 years ago

It's not civil to break someone's radio. I would have called the police if the person refused to turn it off or refused to leave.

[–] Iceman-15 10 years ago

It's also not 'civil' to come into someone's business, after hours, blaring loud music, and try to murder the owner. I would have found something better to do with my life.

I graduated from the college of the streets, I gotta Phd in how to make ends meet.

[–] screenscreams 10 years ago

What would you do with the radio?

[–] Iceman-15 10 years ago

This is what I would have done:

I would've broke the radio, like Sal did, beat the sh!t out of him WITH the baseball bat, then called the police and had him arrested for trespassing.

You see, once RR trespassed onto Sal's property after hours, he was breaking the law. At that point, anything goes.

I graduated from the college of the streets, I gotta Phd in how to make ends meet.

[–] screenscreams 10 years ago

Then you wouldn't be a good business man. Sorry.

[–] Iceman-15 10 years ago

If you're willing to let someone trespass onto your property and attempt to murder you then you're a fking fool. Sorry.

I graduated from the college of the streets, I gotta Phd in how to make ends meet.

[–] screenscreams 10 years ago

And the ignorant name-calling starts. You're dismissed.

[–] Iceman-15 10 years ago

I suppose this is your method of throwing in the towel... next!

I graduated from the college of the streets, I gotta Phd in how to make ends meet.

[–] jeskavandetta 10 years ago

Sal wasn't really all that civil once challenged. Buggin' made a a perfectly reasonable suggestion, albeit one that Sal would have been completely within his rights to politely reject. The keyword here is "politely". A good business man would have been polite in those circumstances regardless of what he decided to do with the wall. In this instance, Sal threatened a paying customer with a baseball bat for voicing their opinion. In what way is that civil? How is this the "American way"?

Also, using Smiley's behaviour as an example of black people behaving uncivilised seems really problematic here. Firstly, Smiley quite obviously had some sort of a learning disability and should have been treated with care (which, to Sal's credit, he usually was). Secondly, the only reason he behaved the way he did was because Sal's son had been so rude to him in an earlier scene. It doesn't seem impossible to me that perhaps Smiley might have just been unable to disassociate the behaviour of Sal's son with Sal himself (on account of, you know, his obvious learning disability).

Mind you, I find it funny that no-one ever suggests that a photo of a black person could be made to fit with the theme of the restaurant. It could have been a photo of a black celebrity/politician shaking hands with an Italian. If non-American Italians were deemed eligible for the wall, they could have found a picture of a black Italian (there was a black Medici FFS - I'm sure they could have found at least one!). Sal didn't have to adapt in this way but it wouldn't have been completely ridiculous/patronising if he did...

[–] Iceman-15 10 years ago

Sal wasn't really all that civil once challenged. Buggin' made a a perfectly reasonable suggestion, albeit one that Sal would have been completely within his rights to politely reject. The keyword here is "politely". A good business man would have been polite in those circumstances regardless of what he decided to do with the wall. In this instance, Sal threatened a paying customer with a baseball bat for voicing their opinion. In what way is that civil? How is this the "American way"?

I didn't think it was a "reasonable suggestion". I thought it was a stupid suggestion that was all about control than black pride.

If Sal puts up pictures of black people on the wall BO is gonna think he's weak and next week he's gonna demand something else. What a lot of people must understand here, is that black people - well NOBODY - cares about pictures on a wall. If somebody tries to tell you otherwise they're either a fool or think that you're a fool.

Also, using Smiley's behaviour as an example of black people behaving uncivilised seems really problematic here. Firstly, Smiley quite obviously had some sort of a learning disability and should have been treated with care (which, to Sal's credit, he usually was). Secondly, the only reason he behaved the way he did was because Sal's son had been so rude to him in an earlier scene. It doesn't seem impossible to me that perhaps Smiley might have just been unable to disassociate the behaviour of Sal's son with Sal himself (on account of, you know, his obvious learning disability).

Those kinds of responses are quite typical here. Basically, you're conjuring up an excuse as to why Smiley did what he did. In another thread someone said the reason RR struggled with the cops because he "blacked out". I would say, see it for what it is, and call it what it is. The character of Smiley was an afterthought on Lee's and the actor's part. I'm sure they didn't delve all that deeply into the character's motivation.

Mind you, I find it funny that no-one ever suggests that a photo of a black person could be made to fit with the theme of the restaurant. It could have been a photo of a black celebrity/politician shaking hands with an Italian. If non-American Italians were deemed eligible for the wall, they could have found a picture of a black Italian (there was a black Medici FFS - I'm sure they could have found at least one!). Sal didn't have to adapt in this way but it wouldn't have been completely ridiculous/patronising if he did...

Please, get out of this "we need to appease black people with pictures on the wall" mode. As a black person I find that very insulting. Black people don't care about that. Jobs, opportunities for career advancement? Yes! Pictures on a wall? No!! Spike Lee was ingesting some hallucinogen when he came up with that idea.

I graduated from the college of the streets, I gotta Phd in how to make ends meet.

[–] jeskavandetta 10 years ago

I didn't think it was a "reasonable suggestion". I thought it was a stupid suggestion that was all about control than black pride.

Except if you take it at face value, the idea that a business within a community should reflect said community isn't all that unreasonable. It's not something that people should feel that they have to do necessarily but I find it strange that you'd have so much difficulty understanding why anyone might want that. Black people are so under represented in Western society anyways (what with our being a minority), it's not strange that someone might feel upset that they aren't being represented in the places that they frequent.
I mean, don't get me wrong - I'm not here saying that Buggin' Out was right about everything (the character clearly had some sort of a black supremacy agenda throughout the film). I'm not even really saying he was "right" in this instance, it's just easy for me to understand why something so minuscule could have bothered someone like that.

In another thread someone said the reason RR struggled with the cops because he "blacked out".

Well I haven't said that so I'm not too sure why you've brought that up. You say "see it for what it is" but all Smiley did throughout the film was stammer and act in a way that suggested that he didn't quite understand the people around him - it was incredibly obvious that there was something wrong with him. You can even hear someone (Samuel L. Jackson's character?) point this out as he's being yelled at by Sal's son in the scene I mentioned earlier. I clearly haven't made up the fact that he had a learning disability. It's not even that deep a reading of the character's motivation - it's actually really simple: disabled person gets yelled at, gets confused, lashes out. How was that not the first conclusion you reached when you saw the movie?
Do you perhaps not know anyone with a severe learning disability?

Black people don't care about that.

Well I'm black and I care about these things (albeit to a lesser extent). The ways in which we are represented has a profound effect on how we see ourselves and how we are treated by others so it's not unreasonable to ask that black people who do well are celebrated in the places where mostly black people live. It wasn't Sal's responsibility to do this in his restaurant necessarily but as a good businessman he should have understood that he would have to at least behave in a polite manner when turning down the suggestion. Indeed, one ought to be polite when turning down the vast majority of suggestions....

[–] Iceman-15 10 years ago

Except if you take it at face value, the idea that a business within a community should reflect said community isn't all that unreasonable. It's not something that people should feel that they have to do necessarily but I find it strange that you'd have so much difficulty understanding why anyone might want

Okay, then by that analogy we must observe the opposite scenario...let's not even say a white community. Let's say a black restaurant in a Mexican community, or a Chinese community. Should "Willie" aquiesce and put a picture of Jackie Chan next to a picture of Martin Luther King just to make the Chinese locals happy? Or should he put a picture of Salma Hayek next to a picture of Will Smith so the Mexicans won't get angry? Or are you saying only black people care about that? Even though I'm black, I do not like the idea of "black entitlement", and the phoney, condescending gestures that go along with it like pictures on a wall.

Black people are so under represented in Western society anyways (what with our being a minority), it's not strange that someone might feel upset that they aren't being represented in the places that they frequent

I hear yah! I fly rather frequently, and when I get on a plane, many times I'm the only black person on the plane. That bothers me. We're not involved. However, pictures on the wall and things like that are not gonna change anything. If someone tells you they feel a sense of pride if they see a picture of black people on a wall, they really need to check themselves. Mind you, I'm not against it. I think it's okay. But the black community is in a crisis, right now. Pictures on a wall do nothing.

Well I haven't said that so I'm not too sure why you've brought that up. You say "see it for what it is" but all Smiley did throughout the film was stammer and act in a way that suggested that he didn't quite understand the people around him - it was incredibly obvious that there was something wrong with him. You can even hear someone (Samuel L. Jackson's character?) point this out as he's being yelled at by Sal's son in the scene I mentioned earlier. I clearly haven't made up the fact that he had a learning disability. It's not even that deep a reading of the character's motivation - it's actually really simple: disabled person gets yelled at, gets confused, lashes out. How was that not the first conclusion you reached when you saw the movie?
Do you perhaps not know anyone with a severe learning disability?

I sense a condescension in your tone, there. Maybe I didn't explain myself as well as I thought. I'll try to make it easier for you:

What you seem to have done, which is typical here, is that you've made an excuse for a character's behavior. By saying that because Smiley is retarded, or whatever, he shouldn't be held responsible for spitting on Sal. In another thread, a poster made a similar excuse for Radio Raheem, and I've seen other excuses as well. I say, don't make excuses! Smiley may have had a "learning disability" but in that instance, he knew exactly what he was doing. He was spitting on Sal in an aggressive, hateful manner. So call it like you see it. Smiley spit on Sal while Radio Raheem was trying to murder him. How do you feel about that?

Well I'm black and I care about these things (albeit to a lesser extent). The ways in which we are represented has a profound effect on how we see ourselves and how we are treated by others so it's not unreasonable to ask that black people who do well are celebrated in the places where mostly black people live. It wasn't Sal's responsibility to do this in his restaurant necessarily but as a good businessman he should have understood that he would have to at least behave in a polite manner when turning down the suggestion. Indeed, one ought to be polite when turning down the vast majority of suggestions....

Okay, he wasn't polite. You know, people, all the time, are not going to be polite. And in the future, people are not going to be polite. But, that is never, ever, a reason to attack a man and destroy his business.

I graduated from the college of the streets, I gotta Phd in how to make ends meet.

[–] jeskavandetta 10 years ago

Should "Willie" aquiesce and put a picture of Jackie Chan next to a picture of Martin Luther King just to make the Chinese locals happy? Or should he put a picture of Salma Hayek next to a picture of Will Smith so the Mexicans won't get angry?

If Willie thinks it's a good idea then he should do it, if he doesn't then he shouldn't. It's his restaurant. My problem isn't with the decision but with the behaviour that followed.
I also don't think that this is the sort of thing only black people care about, in part because when writing my earlier post, most of the "businesses" I had in mind were football clubs. In the UK you can't go a year without someone complaining about how their local teams (often from very white areas) don't reflect their community (the implication being that a large number of teams will buy most of their players from abroad, &c.). Why is it ok for white people to voice these concerns every time the transfer window closes but not for a black man in a restaurant?

If someone tells you they feel a sense of pride if they see a picture of black people on a wall, they really need to check themselves. Mind you, I'm not against it. I think it's okay. But the black community is in a crisis, right now. Pictures on a wall do nothing.

I would agree with you on this to a certain extent. However, I think the important thing to realise here is that there will always be those who are more sensitive than others in part because everyone's experience of white supremacy is unique. If a traumatised guy feels alienated in his own neighbourhood, is it so bad that he voice his opinion every now and then?

What you seem to have done, which is typical here, is that you've made an excuse for a character's behavior. By saying that because Smiley is retarded, or whatever, he shouldn't be held responsible for spitting on Sal.

What I'm saying is that it's problematic to use him as an example of how badly all of the black people in the film behaved quite simply because he was obviously atypical. You can call it an excuse (which it's not, at least not in the way I think you mean) or whatever you want but he isn't representative of the cast or even black people as a whole. There were plenty of other characters for you to use in your argument.
And apologies if the way I phrased that earlier offended you - I honestly didn't know how to phrase that in a way that wouldn't.

(That and I was actually genuinely curious as to whether you'd met or even had to live with a mentally disabled person before.)

Okay, he wasn't polite. You know, people, all the time, are not going to be polite. And in the future, people are not going to be polite. But, that is never, ever, a reason to attack a man and destroy his business.

See, now you're making excuses!
This doesn't erase the fact that it was Sal who first threatened violence with his baseball bat. As a rule, violence begets more violence. I think a good businessman would have seen this coming and shown some restraint.

[–] Iceman-15 10 years ago

If a traumatised guy feels alienated in his own neighbourhood, is it so bad that he voice his opinion every now and then?

No it isn't. Just don't break the law, i.e, trespassing onto someone's property and attempting to murder them.

What I'm saying is that it's problematic to use him as an example of how badly all of the black people in the film behaved quite simply because he was obviously atypical

Look at it this way, and take it for what it is: he was a black man who was spitting on a white man in an aggressive, hateful manner while another black man was trying to murder him. And it wasn't just an accident that it happened. Obviously Spike was trying to make a point with his direction even if the guy was retarded.

See, now you're making excuses!
This doesn't erase the fact that it was Sal who first threatened violence with his baseball bat. As a rule, violence begets more violence. I think a good businessman would have seen this coming and shown some restraint.

I'm not making excuses. I'm agreeing with you. Sal was not polite. And, I'll agree with you again. Sal wasn't a good businessman, either! Sal could've said gtf outta here with your boneheaded suggestions, and he would've been well within his rights to say that. But as I said before in this thread, if you don't like the way someone does business, simply do not go there. That's all Buggin Out had to do. That's the American way.

I graduated from the college of the streets, I gotta Phd in how to make ends meet.

[–] ddw056 12 years ago

Your line of thinking is flawed dasein... I agree that if you're in business that you should cater to your clientele, but expecting an Italian to put up pictures of black people in his pizzeria? Serious? LOL...
I think your missing the point of the movie. I much more agree with Iceman. Anyway

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Jawsphobia 12 years ago

I disagree. Buggin' Out is the antagonist of the piece. By definition, he us an unreasonable character. Everything negative that happens, including the death of Radio Raheem, is on him. People know enough to dismiss Buggin' across the board when he first starts to stir things up. The people he most influences are somewhat slow, either Raheem with his daydreaming or the guy with fliers and ultimately with matches. Eventually, even Mookie is drawn into it but indirectly.

If Sal's place were Chinese, there would be not a peep about Chinese decor and maybe pictures of Bruce Lee on the wall. Sal's place could be regarded as an Italian embassy in Bed Sty. Buggin' out is a LONE voice for most of the film on the issue of pictures on the wall.

Samuel L. Jackson's radio station has all the black performers they could ask for on his wall. Chances are that if the Korean-owned store had any photos up they would be of their family or something that encourages them. Pictures are to feel at home away from home. I don't go into McDonalds and tell them to drop the Mc from their food names because they are not in a Scottish neighborhood. The Corner Men balance each other out, whether they like the Koreans or not, and they are more mature than Buggin. They know he is a goof.

And the interesting thing is that there is nothing inevitable about the death of Radio Raheem. That is perhaps an area where the thesis of the movie falters. It just happens that an overzealous cop - goes way too far even though people are saying his hold is enough. Did he die because of Sal or because he was put up to the confrontation by Buggin'? And because Buggin' insisted on fanning the riot sentiment. Sal having his favourites on his wall did not kill Raheem.

http://www.studentscrossingborders.ca/

[–] Twistedd_Sister 12 years ago

Did he die because of Sal or because he was put up to the confrontation by Buggin'? And because Buggin' insisted on fanning the riot sentiment.

Good question!

The trick is to enjoy life, accepting it has no meaning whatsoever. Juan Antonio VCB

[–] ChristmasStan 12 years ago

He should of put up "African Americans" having All white people is racist. America is a nation of every race..

[–] Jawsphobia 12 years ago

If it was a Chinese restaurant, would there be a problem with Chinese decor and pictures of Chinese celebrities like Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan?

I know there are nasty things said about the thriving Korean restaurant, and their prices, but if they had any Korean decorations (I didn't notice) they likely would not have been begrudged it.

Also, you've gotta love the huge double-take Buggin' does as he is about to bite his hundredth pizza slice there over the years, as if he has JUST noticed the photos on the wall are of Italian celebrities. He, like everyone else on the block, had NO PROBLEM with it for years growing up around the pizza shop.

He just got inspired over something to rock the boat. And a pretty delayed inspiration at that. His goal: how to prop himself up as a "leader" in the community instead of the joke that he is. Caving in for him would not be the answer.

It is very interesting how the element of the guy selling a picture of MLK and Malcolm came about. The role didn't exist but the actor was allowed to hang around and he improvised the character and Spike Lee rolled with it. Without that guy, there would be no tie-in with the burning of the parlor and the photo being put up. There is no actual connection between those icons and a punk like Buggin'.

Also, you know it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't when it comes to tailoring a business to reflect a neighborhood. If Sal showed up and immediately had black celebrities on the wall, people would say he is kissing up or trying to condescend or fool people in some way. A Taco Bell looks like a Taco Bell the world over, with a Mexican motif. In reality, Sal's Pizzaria would likely sponsor a kids sports team in the area and pictures of the kids would most likely be on the wall as well, because that strikes me as the kind of guy he was. But then there would be no inciting incident for the script.

Good movie, but one could argue that the strangling cop feared the utter size of Radio Raheem and overcompensated. In reality, Raheem would have complied. He had already lashed back at Sal for destruction of his boom box, and he would have known not to wrestle a cop especially with his neck being choked. He would have settled back. Having not witnessed the real life equivalent, I don't know why someone would push away forward while his neck is in a choke hold. It makes for intense drama, but doesn't hold up well to analysis.

Good movie, but at the end of the day Buggin' Out is the antagonist and he eventually wears down Mookie to his false philosophy. It's not the us-versus-them that most trouble-makers want to portray. His status is key. He feels John Savage has trespassed on him because the bike accidentally touched his shoe, and he makes a confrontation out of it. And Savage has nothing to do with pictures on Sal's wall. It's just another hair-trigger response.

I was glad to see the actor who plays Buggin' as an excellent villain on Breaking Bad but I have kind of hated his character in Do the Right Thing for ages. In the macro version of the scenario, he is like a Trickster god pitting sects against each other with irrelevant and arbitrary divisions. The kind who gets to appear powerful and may have stock in Haliburton.

http://www.studentscrossingborders.ca/

[–] devmil 12 years ago

There's a few ways you can look at the Sal/Buggin' Out feud... but as said by Spike Lee himself, there is no good or bad guy in that conflict.

Sal was somewhat of an *beep* Good-natured, and didn't truly hold malice for anyone, but had a bit of an attitude with the way he addressed people- from Mookie to Buggin' Out to Radio Raheem. So him having no true problem with anyone but also being a prick built up through the film, which resulted in him eventually losing it and revealing some deep-seated racial feelings of his own by the end i.e. "you black c**ksucker, I'll tear your *beep* ni**er ass". That said, he generally got along with everyone up to that point. In fact, he even reprimanded his son for having blatant hatred for Black people. And as said by Spike, although Sal's attitude sucked, he was correct in saying that it was his store and he was well within the right to do what HE wanted to do.

With Buggin' Out, he was a regular dude who seemed to be the type that got a fuse sparked in his head and went about it all wrong. His character seemed to be a commentary on those who bought a few medallions and suddenly became Black activists in their own minds. So with his misguided activism, he was dying for something to lead and he decided this petty argument with Sal over pictures on the wall would be his cause. He starts this boycott and is able to sway no one. Everyone says it's a waste of time- Mookie, Jade, Da Mayor, the guys on the corner... because ultimately it is. He could have used that same energy for something much more useful. The only people he is able to persuade are people who had their own run-ins with Sal earlier that day. That said, his conflict with Sal did prove to expose that maybe Sal had some racism in his heart after all.

And so that's why that conflict builds the movie and makes it great- there are some good guys and bad guys in the whole thing, but the two main people at the core of the situation are neither all the way bad or all the way good.