The sex scene?
Was she enjoying it? or was he hurting her?
shareThat's one of the ambiguities of the scene. She reluctantly consents to sex with Hughie in order to get herself and her husband out of a perilous situation with a maniac yet she clearly seems to be enjoying the sex and even seems to reach a shuddering orgasm towards the end. Initially she is forced into the position of giving herself to Hughie so she can buy herself time and his trust. As he takes her she gradually and confusingly for her seems to be overcome with waves of sexual passion. Her reluctance subsides and she becomes momentarily lost in the frantic lovemaking. As her initial coldness melts away into heaves of passionate cooperation she lustfully grips Hughie tighter to her as he screws her. She is distressed at the situation she is in while simultaneously feeling sexually aroused. Strangely enough if you listen closely enough you can even hear her blurt out a mumbled "yes" while they are having sex. Almost as if it escaped from her mouth involuntarily.
Of course when the sex is over she feels guilty over her actions. Not guilty in doing what she felt she had to do to survive but guilty for the fact that she enjoyed the sex with Hughie. She may have been repulsed by him before and after it but during it she got lost in the moment. Maybe it was a temporary escape for her from the perilous predicament she was in? As for did he hurt her? Certainly at the beginning he was a bit rough with her and she did seem to be in some discomfort when he initially entered her but slowly but surely the look of discomfort on her face gives way to one of pleasure and arousal.
As for was it rape or consensual sex? It would be hard to call it rape. He did not force himself on her. She used her physical charms to manipulate and seduce him for her own ends. She did consent to the sex even though she may have felt that she had no other option left open to her. Plus rape victims find the experience horrorfying. It is difficult to square that with the fact that she appears to be in the throes of sexual ecstasy at times during the coupling. In truth she was in a emotionally vulnerable state. She had lost her child and lost her husband. And people who are alone and emotionally vulnerable often crave sex and the physical closeness it brings. That coupled with her survival instincts kicking in led her to give herself to Hughie.
I imagine the director intended for the sex scene to be completely ambigious. He could have directed Kidman to show her character in extreme distress during it but she's obviously been told to show a mixture of reluctance, discomfort, sexual arousal and pleasure. She isn't fighting and screaming like she would be in a rape situation. She is sweating, moaning, panting and cumming.
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Personally, I never got the sense that Rae was truly "enjoying" herself. She has a sort of "faraway" look in her eyes which implies that she's repulsed by Hughie and, even in the moment, is feeling guilty for cheating on her husband, regardless of the fact that she is doing so in the hopes of saving his life.
I've heard that during gynecological exams, women are capable of becoming mentally detached from the ordeal, and I've always believed that Rae was doing exactly that. Admittedly, it is possible that she received some sort of physical gratification, in much the way that both men and women can involuntarily become sexually aroused during humiliating physical examinations. It doesn't mean that one "enjoys" it, per se; it's just that the physical stimulation is impossible to ignore, and that one can become aroused by it, or even in spite of it. The body likes/wants what the body likes/wants, and the mind isn't always willing to cooperate, regardless of the circumstances.
There is some validity to the theory that Rae's emotional vulnerability left her more "open" to Hughie's advances. After all, she just lost her child, and since her husband didn't show up at the hospital until well after the fact, it is entirely possible that she felt as if he had failed her in some way and was perhaps, at least subconsciously, lashing out at him by engaging in carnal relations with Hughie. By doing so, she was able to exact some sort of revenge upon her husband (even if he never finds out about it, she'll always know), and the circumstances allowed her to justify her actions somewhat. She'll be able to tell herself that she did what she did in order to save her husband's life, and maybe that will help her sleep at night. Just a theory.
In any case, after the fact, I'd have thrown that G*ddamed dog overboard.
Oops. "G*ddamned dog." I left out an "n" there. I blame the beer.
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Uh.....maybe she was faking it? I know I have put on a good show once or twice with my ex just to get it over with. Most men can not tell the difference.
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Sorry, guys. I will continue to read through this thread and haven't, yet. You know- I don't think anyone one of us has been through the same life events as Rae has up to this scene. So we can't speak with any certainty.
I understand that she and her husband were having problems in their relationship, even sexual problems. But it blows my mind to think that she could ever enjoy sex with this guy who will most likely kill her and knowing she has to save her husband. She is emotionally vulnerable and unstable as it is, we understand that and not only that but she is in high survival mode at this time.
I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that you can enjoy sex at this time when your life is on the line and your husband's. She just lost her son, I am sure she is that more determined to not lose her husband and that more determined to keep herself alive because she is the only one that can save her husband.
I believe everything she did, she did as a measure to insure Hughie's trust. I know some of you are saying, why did she have to resort to sex so quickly to bide her time, etc, etc. Well, Hughie was attracted to her from the first- he's mentioned that. I remember in the film that anytime she protested or disagreed with him in the SLIGHTEST, he would violently question her loyalty, "Friends, Rae???" I think any kind of hesitation on her part towards him would have him questioning her. She didn't want that so was receptive to him instead. Perhaps PRECISELY because she had so little time to save her husband (6 hours) before his boat sank, she instinctively (survival mode) thought that it might be better to actually be receptive to him and encourage him so that he would be more trustworthy of her and not be as suspicious of her behavior. He did allow her to roam around freely around the boat but he was always checking up on her. He never fully trusted her. So for her to have any hesitation towards him and his advances and desires would probably have resulted in violence or him locking her up in the cabin somewhere and she couldn't take any chances at all. She had only a few hours with him - sex was a necessary survival. She did it.
I am offended that many of you would think she enjoyed it. Heck, when I'm not completely in the mood and my husband wants sex and I give in because I LOVE HIM, I still don't always enjoy the sex completely- and my situation is nowhere near Rae's in the least.
So I think she did what she needed to do to survive and did it well. In fact, she didn't even want to kill him despite her life being in danger. Perhaps, she doesn't want to be responsible for his death and have to live with that. We can talk so easily about killing someone even in self-defense but could we do it? How would we live with ourselves afterwards? If you're fine with it, what does that say about you?
I am also curious how many posters on here are male saying she enjoyed the sex and female saying she enjoyed the sex. I think men want to believe that sex is so powerful and enjoyable for women that even under these circumstances, she would still enjoy it. But I'm a woman and I beg to differ. Sex is not that all powerful and encompassing. In fact, it isn't and that's why she is able to differentiate THIS necessary sex with this psycho knowing it is a necessary act of survival. If she thought the world of it, she probably would have more reservations.
Unfortunately, I don't know if her husband would see it that way.
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"Survival mode fits more drastically with John's situation than Rae's. After all John is the one on a sinking ship while Rae has a basic amount of freedom on board her boat. Rae's only need for survival would come if she chose to take control of her Husband's ship which is now in the hands of Hughie. And for that to happen she would have had to go against Hughie at some point. That's where weapons like the shot gun or harpoon come in, and as we see she does try to use them on Hughie even though later she never brings herself to kill him."
Rae may not be in a "drastic" survival mode but she is STILL in survival mode. She even asks her husband, "Do you want me to take control of the boat?" which is basically a rhetorical question because YES, she has to take control of the boat if her husband has any chance to survive. I think she knew that all along and when she started crying, it was perhaps her way of letting go of all helplessness she may have felt and I think after that point, her survival instinct kicked in. She is really alone with this psycho and she has to keep her wits if she is to survive this at all. So I think the whole time she was with Hughie on the boat and he refused to turn the boat around, she IS up against Hughie and she knows she has to take control of the boat somehow. So in that sense, she is in survival mode.
Perhaps she didn't have to go the extra mile to ensure his trust by giving in to him sexually. I think he would have sought it out eventually from her. How long can he listen to music and stare at the ocean before his mind starts wondering towards sexual thoughts about her? In fact, all it took for him to want her was to see her cry and in a vulnerable state. She wasn't even flirting with him at this time. In fact, he's the one that approaches her after she stops crying. I feel he solicited sex. Maybe she gave in in the hopes that it would be enough for him so she could move on to what she needed to do next. Maybe she also gave in to him in the hopes that it wouldn't eventually get violent between the two of them if she kept avoiding it and refusing him even in a subtle way. Why would she want to flirt with him in any way? This is a psycho man who has expressed his interest in her. Any flirtation on her part would most likely have resulted in immediate sex and if she refused sex after flirting with him, he would most likely have gotten violent.
I would like to read some documented cases where women got carnal satisfaction from rape. It is still hard for me to comprehend. I guess that's because I'm not into S & M. I could see where that might be the case. I don't think we are given enough information about Rae's character to know if she is that kind of person. Especially in the short amount of time they know each other and it being a one and only act.
I think you mentioned Stockholm Syndrome somewhere in your post? I have heard that to happen to certain victims. However, doesn't that usually take a long, long time to happen? Like days, or even months ? Usually by that time, the victim has sympathized with their wardens and although given a generous amount of freedom,usually doesn't take advantage of it to escape. Rae had 6 hours. Not enough time in my opinion to develop that syndrome- certainly she was trying to take control of the boat as soon as she had made that conscious decision. The only time she sympathized with him was in the beginning when she and John were questioning his situation. After he violently erupted at her and refused to turn the boat around, any sympathy she might have still had effectively ended.
I think under different circumstances such as the Stockholm Syndrome, I might believe that she enjoyed the sex, but I just can't believe it in this situation.
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jess and snoopmish and the only logical thinking ones in here
shareThank you. It feels good to hear you say that:)
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Thank you. Yours were thought out well as well. I appreciate that we can state our opinions and differences and still be civil to each other. I don't see that a lot on these boards.
You gave me a lot to think about when I have the time to sit down and watch this movie again. I can see your point of view even if I don't agree with it.
I did check out the link that you posted on the female reviewer. I don't feel she was serious enough in her review to warrant further thought on her comments. She sees Billy Zane as attractive- I don't- never have - not in this movie, or Titanic or even Lake Consequence which was pretty erotic.
I don't remember now why Rae was interested in her husband in the first place. What she sees as sexy and interesting in her husband, she may not see in Hughie. But like I said- I haven't watched it in awhile to be certain about this. So I think it's possible that even though Rae and Hughie are both young and energetic, she still isn't interested in him.
On the other hand, like you said, I guess we can't rule out that it's also possible that she is interested in him.
Well, it certainly makes this movie worth a watch for those who haven't seen it.
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I tried to read all the posts in this thread, but it was getting a little tedious. I did read quite a few of them though. I am going to post my opinion on the sex scene, even though I am not 100% sure that I saw the same exact version that you did, so I am going off what I watched.
When they had their first kiss, she was still crying from finding out that the boat John was on was sinking. They both kissed each other. I think the far off look in her eyes was a look of sadness, confusion and from the fact that she was starting to formulate this plot of trying to distract him with sex.
I do think that she was emotionally distressed and confused. I believe that she was attracted to him and that she was craving physical contact. I believe that she was turned on when he ripped her shorts off and they were making out, and she lost herself for a moment. Then she remembered her plan and said she needed to use the bathroom. I think that she kissed down his chest to make him believe that she was coming right back for more.
Yes, I do agree she could have finished assembling the gun and she didn’t have to grab the cigarettes, therefore ensuring that she would have to have sex with him. But again she was confused, and upset and maybe she was afraid of what he would do if he found her with the gun. Maybe she thought that was her best option.
Now, onto the actual sex. Again, I might have seen a different version than you. I believe that maybe the sensations were pleasurable to her, but was she enjoying it? No. Was she moaning in pleasure? Not much. Did she orgasm? No. Her facial expressions looked very clearly like she was in pain to me. Her moan sounded very much like painful moans to me, not pleasurable ones. Her eyebrows were knitted together in a way that suggested pain, her moans sounded like he was hurting her. Her panting sounded only somewhat like that came from pleasure, more like pain to me, again. The look in her eyes to me suggested that was she lost, she was in pain, she was confused, upset, and she was trying to distance herself from it. Also, the sex flush you have mentioned, I highly doubt was a sex flush. I had noticed that her face was flushed almost through the whole entire movie...that was just one more scene where her skin was flushed, not because she was getting ready to have an orgasm.
Also, I think the difference between being a man and a woman would have relevance to a conversation about sex and rape. Men and women usually have different views on those two topics in particular.
Now, do I think it was rape? Not exactly, no. She was not physically forced, having sex with him wasn’t necessarily her only option. But it was something that she did not really want to do (even if part of her was attracted to him), and it was something that was more damaging than good. It was with a man that was ‘evil’, a man that had hurt her, was sentencing her husband to death, and had probably killed the five people on his boat. In that way, I consider it, at least an emotional version of rape, if not a physical one.
"I'm trying to see things from your point of view but I can't stick my head that far up my ass."
I think this analysis is an excellent compromise of the view between mine and KneelBeforeGeneralZod's.
Thanks for the input.
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Jess: Thanks.
Zod: Your thoughts do seem founded, and I would go as far as to say that with a little of both of our opinions mixed together, it seems almost perfect. I think maybe there is more pleasure in her than I previously stated, but I have only seen the movie once. Obviously you will lean your way, and I will lean mine.
But alas, I am not a person to analize movies, as much as to just watch and enjoy them.
So thanks for the debate.
"I'm trying to see things from your point of view but I can't stick my head that far up my ass."
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Hello from richard, yes i too have long felt that nicole kidmans character got impregnated,but surely after the death of the first child she would not abort ,surely her husband would suspect it is not his,also when he was contacting her over the cb radio was he not hinting to her that she should seduce hughie,also does the sex scene happen in the book, i am sure it endded with her being checked out by a doctor sayiong she was fine with an ambigious smile ,maybe hinting that she is pregnant,dead calm is actually a sequel to another book called aground,of how the sam neil character as a navy captain foils drug smuggling ,nicoles character was the drug smugglers girlfriend.
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1) There is no sex between Hughie and Rae in the book. It's not even implied. The book ends with John, Rae, and one of the cruise ship survivors standing on the deck of the yacht as their sails pick up the trade winds and carry them away.
2) In Aground, Rae is not the girlfriend of drug smugglers, nor is John a navy captain. John is a retired merchant mariner turned mercenary for hire; Rae is a widow who hires John to help her salvage her dead husband's boat. In the midst of the operation they're caught in the middle of a pirating expedition.
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When the dog enters the room finding Hughie on top of Rae, she gets paranoid and jerks her head (likely believing it was John coming in the room). She tries to fight her desires and suggests putting the dog up onto the deck.no, she suggests putting the dog up onto deck either because she fears he would bring the distracting dog onto deck himself thus discovering the gun or because she wants to go onto deck herself to get the gun. Probably both. share
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i guess its what you get when you pair up a certified looney toon and an egotistic movie star...billy zane is a real nut job in life as in film...not very difficult to act...i doubt nicole kidman ever had a genuine orgasm so she's always acting...i've seen other films like this in the carrib with pirates that was way more scary
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