MovieChat Forums > Torch Song Trilogy (1988) Discussion > Harvey and Matthew

Harvey and Matthew

posted 18 years ago by ijonesiii
32 replies | jump to latest

As much as I enjoyed this film, did anybody else have trouble buying Harvey Fierstein and Matthew Broderick as a couple? I really found it stretching credibility that someone who looks like Broderick would fall for someone who looked like Harvey. Fierstein seems to be suffering from Woody Allen syndrome here, really overestimating his physical appeal to men or women or whatever. Allen loves to cast these incredible women as romantic interests in his movies when anyone knows in real life that Woody would never have a chance at landing women like Meryl Streep, Julia Roberts, Tea Leoni, or Sharon Stone.

[–] roulin 18 years ago

Have you seen Julia "fish lips" Roberts or Sharon Stone lately? Or heard what their personalities are like? Insufferable, the pair of them.

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"I'm running this monkey farm now, Frankenstein!!!"

[–] tcith 18 years ago

You can't be serious surely?

I know many many "miss-matched" couples - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
from chubby chasers to people who like grey and everything inbetween and on the sides, people love many different things.

I am not the most handsome man in the world, ( but I certainly have had some stunner partners in my life who I would normally say where "out of my league" they loved me for my personality, heart and humour ... something Harvey has by the bucket load, I hope I am a third as talented as he, I would be one lucky bastard.

[–] flowers_on_the_razorwire 18 years ago

I didn't find it hard to buy at all. This idea that beautiful people only fall for their own kind is ridiculous. In your opinion Harvey Fierstein may not be as attractive as Matthew Broderick, but I know who I'd go for if I had the choice and I can tell you it ain't Matthew Broderick.

[–] benson252 18 years ago

I couldn't buy in to the thought of the two of them together. Wishful thinking.
Harvey should have seen threw his ego and cast the movie for the good of the storyliine. As much as I enjoyed the writing, I never had the desire to watch it again for this casting error

[–] copfl 18 years ago

yes, it was a casting error whether un attractive people want to admit it or not.....

real life: a- people date a-people
b-people = b- people

very rare yr gonna get scrubs on the f -list dating people off the a-list

[–] Michel_Russell 18 years ago

What about the sayings: 'opposites attract', or 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'?

[–] cinema_universe 18 years ago

Boy-- that " 'a' people date 'a' people" line is one for the books.
--and it's strictly a loser's line.

I know many couples, both gay and straight, where one of the partners is far less "beautiful" than the other.

Beauty is, indeed, in the eye of the beholder.
--another old saw, "Beauty is only skin deep," is even more appropo to
the situation in "Torch Song Trilogy," (--as well as in real life.--)

BTW, Woody Allen has been paired (in real life) with some real
'lookers,' like the young Mia Farrow, and later in life,
with his adopted oriental daughter-- who is a beauty by any measure.
(--and several decades younger than Woody---)

.....which leads to a similar argument that can be made for age differences.

One of the firmest relationships I know of is a gay couple,
one who is 33 y/o and the other who is 61.
....and I know of several other such pairs, --again, both gay and straight.--

As for my own experience, after uncountable liasons, I met
the love of my life when I was 35. He was only 21 y/o, and a real knock-out.
-- 14 years age difference when you're only 21 may seem insurmountable to some,
but it never bothered my lover-- who died just a few years ago of AIDS
at the still-young age of 37.

We had 16 years together, without any "a" list nonsense, nor age-diff problems.

--DANA--

PS: Who says Matthew Broderick is "a" list, anyway?
--- who makes such determinations?
--- by comparison, my late lover made Matthew Broderick look like a toad.

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"Beauty is the only thing that time cannot harm." --Oscar Wilde
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[–] solexes 17 years ago

I have to agree that the whole concept of "someone like Matthew" falling for someone like "Harvey."

I'm not a bad looking guy, but I aint a model either. But - I've been with some people who would knock Matthew's socks off in a beauty contest. And again - I've been with some people who would make Harvey look like a God.

In the end though, it is NOT what is outside that is important - or even relevant as to whether or not I would spend my life with someone - or click - with them. Rarely does someone's appearance bely what is inside their heart.

Actualy - I find Harvey very attractive and do NOT see any disparity between him and Matthew. One of my ex's was a KNOCKOUT - but didn't have brain one - or personality one.

*shrug*

[–] TheAcadian 8 years ago

NEWS FLASH - In terms of who dates who, in real life (something with which you obviously do not have even a nodding acquaintance) it's up to the two people involved.

FYI I seem to be considered by others to be an A, men and women alike; an opinion to which I do not give credence but which I've heard it all my life, and my husband (we are hetero, since these kinds of things seem to matter to you) is considered by other men to be a C. I think he is boyishly handsome.

And mine is the only opinion which matters.

[–] domino1003 17 years ago

I had no trouble with it. And it was heartbreaking!

You get Superman in a truckstop men's room, you won't need kryptonite to bring him to his knees!"

[–] dan_golfsat 17 years ago

The casting was fine, Alan was a model in the script, remember? He had to be hot. I think a key revealing character piece that hasn't been mentioned was Alan and Arnold's dinner date. Alan stated he could get anyone he wanted but that it was just sex. Alan wanted a lasting and loving relationship and he saw that same quality in Arnold. He knew Arnold was honest and good from what happened the first night they met. These are the qualities Alan was after. Arnold was the first person Alan found those qualities in.

Now...what I don't understand is...why in the hell was Arnold running away from Alan? Now THAT is the unrealistic part haha!

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] TheAcadian 8 years ago

He was, subconsciously or not, afraid of rejection.

[–] WorldGawker 16 years ago

FYI - Woody Allen has stated many times in interviews that he prefers NOT to be cast in his films. Juliet Taylor is the Casting Director, and sometimes casts him (maybe lack of a better choice or availability of other acotrs).

As far as looks go--a lot of gay men will date some unattractive men IF they go to the gym 7 days a week. Still the focus being on physical, but not necessarily a good looking face. I'm a decent looking guy and have gone out with many "average" looking guys becaus ehtey were smart or had a good heart. I've also seen plenty of women with not so good looking guys and vice versa. Personally, I thought the pairing of Broderick and Feistein very sweet.

[–] rkayic 16 years ago

I agree, they made quite a cute couple, i was quite shocked at Alan's sudden exit from the story, the scenes with Ed fell flat in comparison. Broderick is also adorable in that scene where the radio host gets his dedication to Arnold wrong.

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] bitherwack 16 years ago

One more reason that kind of relationship occurs in the gay community, is that some people really need to be able to be nurtured and dependant in a relationship, and others prefer taking responsibility etc.

Think of it in the same light as a lot of the happy marriages where the wife is domineering, to the men, it registers as a form of love-- to be fussed over ("...don't forget your overshoes, what have you done with your keys...what would happen to you if I weren't around to take care of you ...")

Some need to take care of someone, some need to be taken care of.

Its not your typical Hollywood couple... but then again, look at Demi Moore, or Charlie and Oona Chaplin. If really examined, its amazing all the permutations human relationships can take.

[–] joewhiteyipee 15 years ago

I agree with the original poster; I also had a hard time accepting Matthew/Harvey and Brian/Harvey. For better or worse, almost always physical attraction initially sparks the relationship. Then, the deeper stuff happens. In other words, a very good-looking person with an ugly personality can become unattractive on a physical level to those who might know her well.