I was a bit lost, as well- maybe because I began watching the film half way through?
So she did kill herself? Interesting.
You really need to use some astringent on your face, because seriously- it’s gross.
Katie never really grew up, she didnt really care for her parents, she wanted to roam the world a free spirit, by the start of the movie she is living off her parents staring at middle age, her life just wasnt what she wanted.
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Her father said Katie was extremely depressed when her 2nd marriage broke up
but that he didnt know what to do. He found her dead at Seasmoke later
but at first he thought she was asleep.
I just finished watching it, and she shot herself. Interesting that her father would say he just thought she was sleeping.... Would be a bit messy it would seem.
shareBilly and Katie were kindred spirits in that they were both sort of damaged, incomplete people.
Katie is flighty, overly-sentimental, hopelessly naive about some things (men) and hopelessly cynical about others (family). She's smart, caring, and fun...but she doesn't have the discipline or internal courage to survive or continue forward during the bad times.
She admits it when she takes Billy to the pool after his father dies. She talks about her coping mechanisms when she'd fight with her mom (stepmom?) or lost a dog or got expelled from school. Diving to the bottom of the pool was a way of getting lost in fantasy as a way of avoiding the reality of the situation or coping or DEALING with the problem.
Billy's not much different. When his father dies, he hangs up his spikes. When his mother embarrasses herself and gets drunk, he runs away. When he drops a fly ball when he's about to be called up (paving the way for the ascent of Mike Schmidtt), he quits again. When he can't figure out what to do with Katie's ashes, he tries to get his mom to do it for him.
Neither of them are bad people, they are just incomplete. But when they are together, they draw out the best in one another. Those are the relationships that, at the end of your life, you look back on with nothing but smiles. Those are the ones that you live for and cherish.
Katie...being incomplete and flawed...split as soon as she found her One True Love (tm). Billy...being incomplete and flawed...didn't ever go after her. Katie killed herself quick with a gun. Billy's killing himself slowly with a bottle.
It doesn't really surprise me that there are people who didn't like the movie. I would be willing to bet that a lot of those posters are fairly young. While I won't claim this is a great movie (it's a good, solid movie, IMO), it IS a movie that resonates with those who have a certain amount of experience.
For 99 percent of the people on the planet, they look back on the time when they were 16 or 17 or 18 with a certain amount of regret. When you're that age, you think you're going to rule the world. You're bound for greatness, you just know it. The songs you listen to are anthems. As you get older, unless you're in that top one percent, you settle into a certain strata of mediocrity (or worse, if you're one of the really unlucky ones).
Experience teaches you to deal with it and hopefully, you can live with yourself when you don't make it as a rock star, a movie star, or a pro athlete. Life isn't a whole slew of really huge moments. It's little tiny things surrounded by the mundane or the inert. And it's experience and age that gives you the wisdom to see those little tiny things and to recognize that they're nice and special. So a really good cup of coffee or a nice seabreeze or subtle joke can be as enjoyable as stealing home in the bottom of the 9th inning.
The power of this movie is that when you're 40 or 50 or whatever...you look at young Billy and you think, "Yeah, I remember that. I remember when I had life by the balls and the world was mine for the taking." You remember losing your virginity and BS-ing with your friends and chasing girls and trying to figure it all out. You remember when death was an abstraction.
But it's bittersweet. Because you know that older Billy is where 99 percent of us end up. Our parents die. Our friends wander away. Bad things happen to good people. Dogs get hit by cars. Houses burn down. Rust never sleeps and pretty soon, you're 40 years old and to quote Marc Maron, "The c*ck of life is firmly implanted in your *ss."
Katie kills herself because she's finally realized it and she can't live with it. She's in her late 40s, twice divorced, and while she has means through her family's money, she is headed nowhere. She doesn't have the strength or the wisdom to carry on.
But as to the question of "What specifically set Katie off?" there is no answer. And that's part of Billy's pain. And that's the tragedy and horror of suicide. Billy's left to ponder what he could have done to prevent it and what role he played in her death. What could he have given her? What if instead of settling into a fleabag motel with some waitress...what if he had taken that bus ride home a month earlier and just gone out to the Jersey shore and looked up his old friend? That's the scar that he has to carry with him. And he's probably never going to get over that.
She got him playing baseball again. And in doing so, he finds himself and gets a bit of redemption. But he's never going to tell her. He's never going to get to thank her. He's never going to get to offer his own source of redemption for her.
Bittersweet.
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That post by noah is easily the best post I have read regarding any movie. He's bang on. This isn't a movie for teens, it's a movie for older (late 20's early 40's) people. I watch this movie every March along with Field of Dreams, Bull Durham, Major League and For Love of the Game to get me excited for baseball season.
noah is right that either you get this movie or you don't. Of all people, my mom introduced me to this movie when I was 17. I was much like Billy Wyatt. Not to boast, but I was the phenom pitcher in my city and county. I was scouted in 1993 by the Braves, Blue Jays and Reds. Despite being able to throw high 80's to low 90's (max 92 mph)...I was also only 5'9" and scouts were worried about how much more I could grow after meeting my folks. But I disgress, the only difference between Billy and me was our relationships with our father's. Billy's father wanted him to play in the Majors (although he wanted Billy to go College until he found out that the top scout was scouting his son), my father wanted me to forget about baseball entirely and concentrate on school and get into the investment business. That's how I related to this movie...this was like a cautionary tale for me which is probably reason why my mom wanted me to watch it. When I see the older Billy in a messy hotel and such, even at 17 it was a serious wake up call. I did not want to end up like that, period. I got drafted, decided to give it at least a shot playing in florida for the summer and by the end I was having shoulder problems. My last game I snapped my pitching shoulder reaching for a one hopper back to the mound. Called it quits. After that I went to University, graduated with a business degree, got an International MBA and am now working for a Major Investment Bank as an Equity Trader. It could have easily turned out different.
Other reason why I love this movie so much is Katie Chandler. You can easily fall in love with this character. She is the coolest character. noah is right in saying that she is flawed even a tragic character. It was sad when she killed her self. The defining moment, albeit indirectly, that explains best that why she killed herself is what happens with the pool. She always felt better after touching the grate at the bottom...that was her centre along with being with Billy...Billy had baseball and Katie. You can almost come to the conclusion that when Billy and Appleby go and find the pool filled in. The look on Appleby's face almost says it all...IMO, he figured it out. Katie didn't have the pool and didn't have Billy in her life or anyone and it was too much. She couldn't swim in the pool touch the grate and feel better or have Billy to talk to anymore and it was too much. This is in addition to what noah said.
I also like it that Billy failing lead to the success of Mike Schmidt. It's so true in sports. After I snapped my shoulder, the team I played for drafted another pitcher who just happens to be a pretty good middle-reliver for a National League team right now. Friends do wander too. Although it's fun to have a few old teammates who made it to the show come visit and chat about stuff I rarely see them as they have their families as do I. All I want to talk is baseball, my buddies want me to help them with their stock portfolios asking me for stock tips.
All in all this is a really good movie that deserves more credit then it gets.
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Sorry Roy. I can't believe I completely forgot to respond to this. I thought I did but It was Buddy Carlyle who was drafted by the Reds. The only consolation I have is that I was part of one of the best drafts in baseball history in 1995.
shareYes, noah's post is fantastic, and so is yours logan. I don't think Katie killed herself because her second marriage ended badly. I think there was always a part of her that was missing, even when she was young, and she never found it. Even in the earliest scenes when we're introduced to her as Billy's babysitter, there was something about her that seemed so distant and sad. She had that reckless, carefree personality for a reason. To me they'd both been lost for a long time, except Katie's suicide helped Billy finally learn to live again. Which, reading what noah wrote, is quite tragic when I think about it, because Katie never got that redeeming chance, that way out.
I only do it with superheroes.
Extremely well said.
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"If stagnation is the ailment, and change the cure...why does puppetmaster where gloves?"
noahdb
I prefer not to
Spot on!! AWESOME!!
"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do."
Excellent posts.
In my opinion, Katie killed herself because she was 'over it'. I similarly grew up moderately affluent, knew that my parents would catch me if I fell. (and god knows I did many times). When you are young, wealthy, beautiful and life is ahead of you, your future looks exciting and you know there are so many adventures (chapters is how I put it) that you will experience. Have the fling with the lifeguard, elope to Europe with the bohemian artist, enjoy the ride.
Now on the other side of 40, it is so easy for me to see Katie's state of mind. Okay, still got the money. Check. Possibly the looks, but not from 20 years ago. Check. Never found that elusive lover or spouse to grow old with. Check. What else is there? Katie never had a family, and was a lone spirit making her way. She just grew tired of it. Getting high and having a lover you just met might be exciting when you are 21, but at 41 you might feel worthless and pathetic. Been there done it many times. What else is there?
One can only hope when they approach middle age that they have something to grasp onto when they are falling. For Billy, he at least got back into baseball, even if only at the club level. But Katie was a lost spirit.
Katie saw the writing on the wall. Her expiration date for the life she was accustomed to living had arrived. She left on her own terms, instead of falling into end stage alcoholism and liver cirrhosis (which many of my mom's friends now in the 60s/70's are suffering with). She got out before she slowly destroyed herself. She was able to 'steal home' on her own terms and finally end the game, and win.
Probably going home to her parents didn't help either. She could no longer live the life she wanted to live . The reason she returned home was that her position overseas was untenable , her marriage had ended and she could no longer support herself . Once she got home there probably were a lot of arguments between her and her mom (stepmother ?) of the "I told you so "kind . Eventually she got tired of hearing them lecture her. Since she couldn't leave again, she headed out to Sea Smoke where she eventually took her own life. Like running away to marry her first husband it was an escape. I tried once writing a story about Katie between when she left Billy & her death but there was so little to go on. I tried the same with Billy but once past the 5-6 years he was playing baseball not much at all out there.
sharedag dude. you just taught me a lesson and gave me good advice here. thanks this is deep stuff..
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The father explains when he brings Bill her ashes that her 2nd marriage had failed and she returned home basically broken and unhappy so she shot herself. she was really unhappy with her life and was also arguing with her mother a lot again- or they weren't getting along or something like that the dad mentions i think
shareNoah's post is awesome . She ran off with a man her parent's disapproved of Doobie Epstein , I believe his name was . That marriage ended and there was a second marriage that we don't know anything about other than that it ended in divorce according to her father when he hands her ashes over to Billy . Most likely she would have stayed away if she could but staying overseas was no longer an option.. The life she had lived and was used to living was unsustainable unless you have really deep pockets. There was a man named Richard Halliburton who was a "world traveler" in the 1920"s & 1930's wrote several books on his adventures .I'm sure her (Katie) character read them when she was a girl in the 1950's . That's how he funded his adventures writing books and giving lectures . Katie never saw that side of it . There probably was a lot of "I told you so's " from her parents and at some level she realized that they were right . Her days as a wandering "free spirit" were done and she could not handle that. Probably felt like Rip Van Winkle being away so long 20 years or so . All of her friends had probably moved on didn't keep in touch over the years so no support group there . Billy had moved on also, wasn't there for her. It happens if you have been away from where you grew up for a long time things happen people move on houses get sold the swimming pool gets filled in. I tried once writing a story about Katie between when she left Billy & her death but there was so little to go on. I tried the same with Billy but once past the 5-6 years he was playing baseball not much at all out there.
shareHer father when he gives the urn containing Katie's ashes said that she was extremely depressed after her second marriage failed.
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