MovieChat Forums > Hotaru no haka (1989) Discussion > Seita was not stupid nor selfish

Seita was not stupid nor selfish

posted 9 years ago by jenn4394
41 replies | jump to latest

Something I read in most threads is that Seita was selfish and lazy and stupid and I really have to disagree. You see war is a situation we cannot imagine. I am greek. My country suffered huge loss during World War 2. My grandparents had lots of stories to tell. Also, since elementary school, we were taught about the war and the situation that children had to face. You see, they died in the streets, they had nothing to eat, they ended up eating garbage. It was true hell. To sum up, I am very familiar with war trouble. So I am going to make some points.

1. Try not to think about countries or who was responsible for what. Sure the japanese teamed up with Hitler, but this is not the point.The point is, the suffering of the people during war. That's all. Ecpecially you americans, were not really affected, so I understand your confusion.

2 Seita was 14. He had lost both of his parents and had to take care of his baby sister. Don't treat him like an adult.

3. During war there is no food and no jobs. Even if he eventually had found a job, his salary would be worthless, cause there would be no food to buy. Plus he would have to leave his sister alone all day long, and she was pretty young to survive that.

4. Yes he had money in the bank but as I mentioned before there was no food. Plus, during war time, going to the bank was not that simple. It was a risk.

5. Why is it so hard for you to understand that during war, women and children starve to death? Sure americans didn't, but in many countries people died by millions.

6. Yes there were shelters, but they were usually full of people and out of food.

7. They could have gone back to their aunt in the end but I think at that point she would obviously kick them out, because she couldn't afford to feed them. At that point, things had gotten pretty rough, and food was much less.

8. I would really like to see you people in the same situation. To me Seito did his best and really gained my sympathy. He absolutely loved his siter and always tried to make her happy. Although his parents were dead, he didn't break down, he just kept his head up and tried to survive.

To me most people are so unfamiliar with war situation that are unable to get these movies. And I feel sorry for them cause unfortunatelly this movie is stunning and totally realistic.

[–] mrlmorley 9 years ago

Yes, there should be some sympathy for Seito, however the film makers impose the same 'selfishness' trait in him themselves. He is definitely not lazy, so whomever states this is just being a little insensitive, possibly...

Their culture is very different and this selfish trait is related to his person in their society not in relation to objects, food, sharing etc. Maybe this is what the other users were referring to?

The film poses many problems and questions but if the culture is not understood then it seems a lot of the film itself is also misunderstood.

[–] Admiral-Piett 9 years ago

If he had stayed with his mother's relatives he and his sister probably would have survived. He should have gone back to them like the one farmer advised him to, be he couldn't do it because he was too proud. Leaving and trying to make it on their own was a very foolish decision and that was the main reason why they died.

Point 5 is just ridiculous, who doesn't understand that people starve to death during war? I don't think anybody is confused about that.

[–] RolandF1 9 years ago

Clearly you haven't experienced living with relatives who don't want you there. The aunt was leading towards booting them out on the street anyway which is why she didn't resist the idea of them leaving. In fact she seemed a bit disappointed Seita preeminented the idea. Seita knew he had to find somewhere else. That farmer had no idea what was going on outside of gossip and assumed Seita did something that lead to his leaving, which is why he thought an apology to the aunt would solve things. In reality they could have gone back and she would have just turned them away. Its amazing how some people's attitudes toward you can change when parents are out of the picture.

[–] Admiral-Piett 9 years ago

She didn't resist the idea of them leaving because they were being a burden and not helping out at all, especially Seita who was definitely old enough. Her frustration with them was not unreasonable at all. You can't possibly know that she would have turned them away if they went back and apologized. Her whole issue with Seita was the fact that he was not helping out at all. Seita didn't "know" he had to find somewhere to live, he just thought he did because he was a proud fool.

[–] kkwo23 9 years ago

I don't think they are related at all. In Asian culture, you refer older married female as aunt and older married male as uncle. Seita clearly realized they were being seen as burden, and he simply did not want to be burden to anyone (moreover a stranger). The stranger took them into her home, but kept on reminding them to contact their other relative. I am not sure if culture value becomes barrier for westerner to see this movie, but everything in Asian culture is very subtle. You do not wait for eviction notice, you are suppose to read between the lines.

[–] novastar_6 9 years ago

You can't possibly know that she would have turned them away if they went back and apologized.

Yet she knew they had nowhere to go and no one to go to and ergo would die if they left, and she didn't care.

[–] erwin-zito 9 years ago

Or tried hard not to care. But yeah.

[–] Admiral-Piett 9 years ago

Probably because they were being a burden in what was already a tough time. I'm not saying she was a saint, but that hardly contradicts what I wrote. He didn't even try to go back even though they were starving. If he had apologized for not helping before and promised to do more this time, she may have taken them back. You don't know that she wouldn't have.

[–] SOiL-2 9 years ago

What this boils down to is a cultural gap, essentially. The japanese have a different set of values from us westerners and you're trying to examine their behaviour under the wrong lenses.

[–] snagletooth 8 years ago

Well, there's not much of a point to be made to westerners then.

Being too proud to apologize and perhaps...perhaps...save your sister and yourself is unbelievably stupid to most sane westerners.

[–] LukeAtkinson-849-294872 7 years ago

How could you apologize to such an ugly-spirited person? She was the one that needed to apologize.

[–] snagletooth 7 years ago

Simple. Apologize or die.

Yes, she was an incredibly selfish pig herself, but that choice for him remained.

[–] fairy_depp 9 years ago

I agree.. The aunt was focused on taking care of herself, her daughter and the man living with them. Like she said, they were a nuisance to her and she DID steal food from them. They may well have survived if they stay there but we don't know that... In those times I don't think people had the supplies to be able to help others - they were just trying to survive themselves

[–] Etxpeme 8 years ago

When did she steal food from them? I missed that part.

[–] rushabhshah1108-71-112423 8 years ago

the part where she took half the rice bought from selling their mom's kimono...but then some might consider it 'rent' for the room they were living in...and also the dried plums, etc. that he brought over...the kids didn't get to have that...

Rush

[–] snagletooth 8 years ago

Well, the rent should have been free from any decent human being. The board (food and cooking) is what they owed her for and, gosh, they actually bought it and paid for hers too. F' her, regardless of what a jerk the boy may otherwise have been.

[–] rushabhshah1108-71-112423 8 years ago

[–] babasirconst 8 years ago

Well said, Roland. Couldn't agree more.

[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

What would have been the downside to staying until they were actively kicked out, rather than leaving on their own?

[–] jesusofjonesboro 8 years ago

That's a question that an adult may ask but not a child.

jj

"I can't BELIEEEEEVE you're such a geese!"

[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Not true, children are capable of thought.

[–] theunopeneddoor-697-442391 8 years ago

In Japanese culture you leave when it's clear you are no longer welcome and you do not ask to come back.

It's a respect thing.

It's impossible, but I will do it--The Walk.

[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Self-respect is not something that refugees can afford.

[–] jesusofjonesboro 8 years ago

You obviously have no experience with children. In addition to raising my own family, I've been a schoolteacher.

Children are capable of thinking as children, not as adults.

jj

"I can't BELIEEEEEVE you're such a geese!"

[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Lol at you the gutless coward. Replying to your own post so that you can get the last word in while avoiding alerting me. What a pathetic fellow. Lol.

[–] drxcreatures 8 years ago

They could have compromised; but have you ever lived with someone who makes you feel that you're not worthy to breathe their air?

http://www.cgonzales.net & http://www.drxcreatures.com

[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

No, but as war refugees they are in no position to make demands.

[–] drxcreatures 8 years ago

No they weren't. But you still don't know what's it like to live in a awful household.

http://www.cgonzales.net & http://www.drxcreatures.com

[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

Not that big a deal. How bad can it be?

People always like to play things up. Fact of the matter is that most such issues are comparatively minor compared to death.

If you are not willing to commit suicide over your personal troubles, then I do not believe claims that such issues are worse than death. They are clearly not, otherwise you could just kill yourself.

[–] snagletooth 8 years ago

Not when you bought them their food too. But apparently shame is a one-way street there. What an old bitch that lady was.

[–] fairy_depp 9 years ago

Yes I don't understand why people would consider Seita selfish.. He was a young boy who was suddenly thrust into a parenting role.. Most 12 year old boys wouldn't have the first clue where to start with this so any mistakes he made were completely understandable. He did everything he could for his sister despite being traumatised by the whole situation and loosing his parents.. I think he is the complete opposite to selfish!

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] babasirconst 8 years ago

I'd rather take suicide than to live with a *beep* stain of an aunt like that again. Saita did good by leaving them and going separate. Her intentions weren't good, she was selfish and even traded his MOM's clothes for rice (which they did agree to) by convincing that half of it would go to them, but she took the whole lot as well.

I agree with Saita's views a 100%, but the times were awful to support anything but he tried his best, it wasn't easy. But in the end, it's a powerful film.

[–] snagletooth 8 years ago

Well, then he should be satisfied he lived by his ideals then.

BTW he wasn't too idealistic to refrain from stealing.

[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

I would have performed better. Firstly, because I am smart and very responsible. Secondly and more importantly, because I am practical and callous.

Your post strongly implies that everyone is weak. Some people are strong.

[–] jesusofjonesboro 8 years ago

So you feel threatened by the weaknesses of children.

jj

"I can't BELIEEEEEVE you're such a geese!"

[–] Augustus_Octavian 8 years ago

No, I feel confident and self-assured (in this specific aspect).

[–] Samuraibro 8 years ago

You just couldn't resist the unneeded and unrelated America-bashing, eh?

You seem to completely disregard the fact that Seita was SUPPOSED to humble himself and go back to his Aunt, as per Word of God. Oops.

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

That's a clash of cultures. Most Americans would no doubt place the responsibility on the adult aunt, rather than on the children.

You are sin.

[–] coaltrain123 7 years ago

it was an extremely tricky situation. The aunt clearly didn't want them there, but the dad and daughter didn't really seem to mind. But at the same time, Seita should really have helped as much as possible, and been humble and caring for everyone, not just his sister. We lift him up because he was a really good brother, the best one can ever ask for, but he really could have done better to help his aunt's family, and his community at large. If they had stayed in the aunt's house, he could have left Saitsuko at home with his aunt while he worked. But that aunt really was evil though.

[–] snagletooth 7 years ago

It depends on the country and period of time. Most people who die of starvation are in areas of prolonged fighting and either can't or aren't alllowed to escape, or are subject to deliberate forced starvation.

Mass starvation, as opposed to malnutrition, didn't occur in Japan prior to their surrender, although with the increased attention to mining of the Japanese home waters and cutting off all external shipping (Operation Starvation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Starvation) it would have eventually occured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_front_during_World_War_II#Food:

Food

Agricultural production in the home islands held up well during the war until the bombing started. It fell from an index of 110 in 1942 to 84 in 1944 and only 65 in 1945. Worse, imports dried up. The Japanese food rationing system was effective throughout the war, and there were no serious incidences of malnutrition. A government survey in Tokyo showed that in 1944 families depended on the black market for 9% of their rice, 38% of their fish, and 69% of their vegetables. The Japanese domestic food supply depended, however, on imports, which were largely cut off by the American submarine and bombing campaigns. Likewise there was little deep sea fishing, so that the fish ration by 1941 was mostly squid harvested from coastal waters. The result was a growing food shortage, especially in the cities. There was some malnutrition but no reported starvation. Despite government rationing of food, some families were forced to spend more than their monthly income could offer on black market food purchases. They would rely on savings or exchange food for clothes or other possessions.