Are the Cenobites good or bad?


I saw this movie when I was seven (and it still freaks me out as an adult), but I can't figure out if the Cenobites are good or bad. You see, I only saw Hellraiser II, but none of the others, because people said they weren't up to par with the first two Hellraisers. I remember at one point in this movie, the Cenobites had to fight another Cenobite who was twice as strong as them in an attempt to protect Kristy and that mute girl who couldn't talk, but just play puzzles.

Were the Cenobites trying to protect the other girls? And why were they fighting that Channard Cenobite for? Why was Channard after that mute girl also? If anyone knows, please post.

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[deleted]

Oh, so the Cenobites were human at one point. I forgot that when a cenobite dies, they transform back into their human state. So Pinhead was really Elliot Spencer. They were one in the same. I almost forgot about that part too.

You've really answered my questions well. Thank you for the input.

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Cenobites are neither "good" or "evil".
They just ARE.

The brain that doesn't feed itself...eats itself!

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[deleted]

I didn't read it like that at all.

I saw it as Channard went loopy, killing needlessly, etc, and wanted to take charge. Meanwhile, the group of cenobites who discovered their human past were suitably weakened because of this, ready to be finished off when Channard arrives...

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[deleted]

Okay, I'm sure discussing such ambiguous story points like this is officially unhealthy... but here I go, anyhow!

The patients you refer to - which is what I was thinking about - just suddenly HAD boxes. Where did they come from, out of interest, see if you have any theories (you seem to have thought about this film a fair bit)? If I was to get really serious... cenobites are only supposed to play with those who open the box(es) with the right intention... and that bunch of loonies didn't exactly seem the reasoning sort! I always read the scene as Channard being a naughty boy, at any rate.

As for the whole cenobites losing their 'impartiality', etc, well, I don't buy it. I can see how you MIGHT come up with that, but nothing in the film implies this to be the case. Where you see this as a matter of rebel-cenobites against Channard, I see it as the reverse! Heh.

And the same thing about the penis-tentacle (doesn't that just roll off the tongue?) - it's nature isn't explored within the film at all. Anything you say about the phallic object is purely hypothetical. I just saw it as a way he moves around and derives his power from. Whether this is directly from Leviathan or not isn't clear at all. Even if IT was how Leviathan directly controlled Channard, gods can take their eye of the ball y'know.

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[deleted]

I am aware that the tenticle was designed to come from Leviathan. But that wasn't in the film. Anything outside of the film does not exist, as far as I'm concerned. What's the point in bringing in things that never made it into a film, for whatever reason, to explain away discrepencies?

'Why did the man suddenly change into a woman at the end? Where'd that come from?!'

'Oh, just read the script, buddy. It's all pretty clear. Geez...'

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[deleted]


I can't see how it could be clearer that they are rebelling.

And why exactly would Channard rebel? He's JUST been created. Julia brought him directly to Leviathan (it wanted souls) and Leviathan directly transformed him. And then GAVE him the tentacle. If Channnard was THEN somehow rebelling Leviathan as a God could easily finish him off. GOD. As in all powerful. ;)

And then the Cenobites come. Ready to chain Kirsty. And she shows them the picture (they previously said thay had always been there) and Pinhead longfully utters "I remember" and allt he Cenobites stand around lookign saddened. Having foudn their lost humanity.

They THEN see Channard and try to protect Kirsty and Tiffany who run back BEHIND the Cenobites. How exactly is that NOT rebelling? Had they beat Channard you think they'd turn around and chain the girls? They've just remembered their humanity. Elliot Spenser even makes this VERY clear in the few good bits of Part 3.

They remembered who they were and thus tried to atone, attacking Channard and dying. Also remember this was supposed to be IT for them, the characters were never meant to be seen again.

It was meant as a final, noble self-sacrifice where they rediscovered their humanity and died fighting to protect Kirsty and Tiffany.


- Scarecrow
(www.cenobite.com)

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alrighty im throwing my hat in the ring.

channard didnt kill anyone in the hospital. the way i saw it the hospital was just another room in hell meant to scare kirsty and tiffany. and even if the hospital was real he can enter our world cause the opening to the schism wasnt closed yet. he can enter our world and kirsty can enter his as long as it remains open.

as for pinhead and the gang, they were originally going to kill kirsty until she reminded them of what they use to be. seeing that channard was going to kill tiffany and kirsty, they attempted to destroy channard to protect from a fate they use to dish out to all who opened the box. but since the renounced their positions in hell their powers started to leave them and they were dispatched w/o effort. even though they were killed they helped kirsty and tiffany get away and now their souls are freed.

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[deleted]

According to the Hellraiser Universe canon, the trigger that summons a Cenobite is obsession. The Lament Configuration is just a device to focus the obsessive mind and reach across the Schism (these are terms that come from the original source material). So yeah, if the loonies in the psych ward suffered from OCS, that would do it. Channard would know his patients and he would have been able to hand-pick which ones had that disorder, get them all together in one place, and give them Boxes.

What?! WHAT??!?! WHAAAAT!! The Glove is losing its touch!! — Chief Blue Meanie

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In both the novella and the first film, the Cenobites clearly tell Kirsty that they can't go back across the Schism without bringing a victim with them. I still don't understand why they go after Kirsty again after claiming Frank.

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Pinhead was definately evil. In the third film, he made an attempt to kill as much people as he could and stay on earth. Eliot Spence was his Humanity, and tried to stop him.

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[deleted]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! I wanna jump in and ask something really quick!

Because they tried to rebel against Channard, their powers were leaving them?! Man, that's jacked up! The Cenobites were the only defense that Tiffany and Kristie had! Taking away their ability to move chains, leaves the Cenobites defenseless.

So because Leviathan had Channard, did Leviathan no longer have a need for Pinhead and his lieutenants? I mean, Cenobites aren't expendable in the Leviathan's world.

'Without your weapons, you are no match for Montaro!'

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I have a quick question, in Hellbound, when the cenobites change back to human, why does Chatterer change into a little boy?


I've always been confused by this.

Can anyone help?

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[deleted]

Killing isn't evil.
Cenobites are just at the top of the universal food chain and they happen to eat souls. It's in their nature and they are what they are.
I'd totally date Pinhead.

myspace.com/lexfulgore2

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I'd date Pinhead too. I agree it's just the way they are the live in a different world I'd totaly be a cenobite.I'd probaly piss off pinhead though because I'd be sick of sitting around.

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[deleted]

"Because the Chatterer was most likely a boy when he solved the box, and grew to adult size while he was a cenobite."

I'd still love to know how he got his hands on the box at such a young age, if that was teh case (as I believe it is). Must've been a seriously perverted kid, or something.

Are there any short stories embellishing on this?

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[deleted]

I see it as they effectively quit being cenobites as soon as they remembered their humanity (losing the cenobite perks in the process), and this is rebellion in a sense as they sided with Kirsty et al (humanity over soul-less-ness), so Channard became the big dog then and destroyed them?

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[deleted]

the conobites are neither good or bad, they just do their job which they enjoy. they didnt take tiffany cuz it was not her will to open it, it was channards, which they wanted to kill because he was trying to take over hell.

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[deleted]

doesnt anybody use wiki anymore

it gives bios on some of the ceno's and plots for the movies
>.> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellraiser

Remember this name, it might be worth thousands someday

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GOOD POINTS!

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"I am aware that the tenticle was designed to come from Leviathan. But that wasn't in the film. Anything outside of the film does not exist, as far as I'm concerned. What's the point in bringing in things that never made it into a film, for whatever reason, to explain away discrepencies? "

then you sir, are an idiot

the CREATORS of the film are the ones who hold the cards as to what is actually happening, since THEYRE the ones who invented it, and the creators write THE SCRIPT so they can make the idea a film,
your argument is like telling a songwriter what theyre songs about even though they say its about something else. dumb

"I'd still love to know how he got his hands on the box at such a young age, if that was teh case (as I believe it is). Must've been a seriously perverted kid, or something."

the way i saw it, and this also explains the whole "who really opened the box" thing: if the box is given to some by someone else who knows what the box is, and they give it to them with the intention of them openening the box for them, then the one who actually opens it is excempt, and the cenobites go after the "giver" of the box, like they did with tiffany and channard. however, if someone picks up the box by accident and solves it, then the cenobites take them, as theres no external person manipulating them, and the cenobites have to take someone back with them.

another thing, whose to say the rules of hell are black and white, when the rules are enforced by the cenobites? what i mean is, when tiffany opened the box, the female cenobite was ready to take her, it was only because of pinhead that she stopped. so if pinhead wasnt there tiffany would be taken. the leviathan doesnt seem to magically control these things, more like its up to the individual cenobites themselves, thus channard sliced up the schmos in the hospital cos he wanted to, but maybe he still wasnt supposed to

best way i can explain it is cops are supposed to uphold the law to the letter, yet how many times do they *beep* up/use excessive force/break the law themselves etc.... in fact sometimes they kill someone just for being the wrong skin colour, so maybe the cenobites simarlarly dont have to follow the rules to the letter, since THEYRE the ones enforcing them

You Dare Agree With Me?!

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I wonder what would have happened if the Cenobites had won against the Doctor.

"You're from the 60s! Peace love dope! Back, back to the 60s! No place for you in the future!"

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[deleted]

The Cenobites are neither good nor bad. They are simply serving their master in Hell. Each Cenobite is in some way a darker vesion of the person they were in life. They belive what they do is right. In part II, Kirsty helps them remember who they were, so that's why they go against Channard. In Part III however, I would say that Pinhead is EVIL, because his human side is no longer in Pinhead and he can let his dark side completely out, no allegiance, not even to Hell.

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right man, so true

pinhead and the other cenobites were all human

but still i have to say that this movie and the original rocks, bloodline would of been better if they kept it they way the original director had it




CALL ME SNAKE-snake plissken
ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK

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cenobites are angles to some demons to others.

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One thing I patterned off the Cenobites: is that they absolutely cannot stomach the innocent getting hurt. They want consensual victims, people who chose to be with them. "It is not hands that call us — it is desire."

C.J. Jung said, "Every angel is fearsome."

Which is why I got so angry with #3, suggesting that Cenobites are evil, stalk-'n-slash villains. They aren't. They're twisted, dark, tragic and, finally, noble.

What?! WHAT??!?! WHAAAAT!! The Glove is losing its touch!! — Chief Blue Meanie

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I think Tiffany is supposed to be autistic as well. I agree she was innocent and thus she did not know what she was doing.

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[deleted]

A little bit of a different thought on the cenobites vs the good doctor. (though I realize the past answer of the CENOBITES rebelling is more than likely proper)

Pinhead seemed to be awfully pissed off that someone else was intruding on his session. At that point, they stepped forward and Pinhead made the first move (hooking the doc)

In all likelyhood, be it that the Cenos were rebelling or they were simply mad about the intrusion, had they not stepped forward, odds are, they probably wouldnt have been killed. Just one mans thoughts though.

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Eh, Channard was intent on taking over. They would have had to submit to him being the head Cenobyte or die. And I can't see Pinhead giving in.

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[deleted]

Yeah, the Cenobites kind of come off suckish at the end of the first film.

They got Frank back like Kirsty said they would, and they also get Julia since she solved the Box in her dying breaths. And then they go after Kirsty anyway...? That is, the Female and Pinhead apparently want to claim her. Chatterer and the Engineer are more interested in snatching the Box back from her. Butterball has his sights set on Steve, but gets crushed by falling limber.

But I forgive all that since they give themselves up to save Kirsty and Tiffany in Hellbound, so it's all good.

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My take on it is that the Cenobites are possessed souls. The people, good or bad, who chance upon the puzzle boxes find themselves getting involved with energies far, far over their heads.










Live Long and Prosper!

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Theoretically, they are neither. They are just following orders from Leviathan.

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Yeah, that makes sense. Many of them were more self destructive than outer directed destructiveness in their living lives. Once they were transformed, that completely turned around.

Good call!








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