MovieChat Forums > Hellbound: Hellraiser II (1988) Discussion > Why was Chanard Cenobite evil unlike ori...

Why was Chanard Cenobite evil unlike original Cenobites who were amoral?

posted 9 years ago by al666940-3
16 replies | jump to latest

Anybody knows?

I've read The Hellbound Heart and both novella and first film clearly state the Cenobites are "explorers" not demons (people may view them as angels or demons though).

And everybody knows the Cenobites were:
- Fair (within reason, they refused to take Tiffany, allowed Kirsty to deliver Frank and even saved Kirsty from him)
- Reasonable (cut Kirsty a break twice)
- Unaware of their humanity
- Ultimately good (when realizing they were humans, they move in to protect Kirsty from Chanard instead of joining him).

However Channard Cenobite is:
- Evil (he clearly gets off killing his patients for no good reason)
- Remembers he was human ("And to think, I hesitated")

Heck even the Cenobite home is now referred to as "Hell".

I don't complaint, I love both movies!! Just wondering why the changes.

[–] HellboundHero 9 years ago

I think they just wanted the cenobites to be more threatening, which is also why they tried to take Kirsty at the end of the first movie when they let her go in the book.

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

the reason he is allowed to keep his memories is because unlike pinhead an the rest he wanted to be part of hell he was obsessed with it he wanted to be there pin head an the rest were just confused people he wanted to be be part of hell he was scared when he got it but he wanted it thats the difference

[–] msluornu 9 years ago

I always thought he was more clearly evil because his transformation was supervised/ordered/etc by Julia. Seems like she controlled him more than Leviathan did.

"No more deals child, it is your flesh we want to experience, not your skill at bargaining."

[–] Nuclear_Exorcist 9 years ago

Channard is a psychopath even before he becomes a cenobite. The other cenobites were made from much less disturbed individuals, so they lacked the gleefully homicidal nature of Channard. Hence why Pinhead becomes a stupid Freddy Krueger type character in later installments - he no longer has Elliot Spencer's soul to control him.

[–] hollyannbartel-112-273887 9 years ago

Yes Jebus. I must concur with your entire post. Praise Gawd.

[–] dumakaa 9 years ago

Did you forget what happened in Part III? Elliot Spencer soul was bound to Pinhead again. After Elliot's soul was released from Pinhead, he became an evil uncontrollable murderous monster just like Chanard. It wasn't until the end of part 3 when Elliot and Pinhead bounded again did Pinhead become like he was before.

"Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha (chaching) Whoops!"
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[–] HellboundHero 9 years ago

And it's possible that due to their separation during Hellraiser III, Pinhead became more concerned with being unbound by the box, which is why he wanted to use Lemarchand's design to open a larger gateway.

[–] JamesMcFly 9 years ago

You have the coolest screen name! Just saying.

[–] TheFatDruidofNacyl 9 years ago

In the first one it seemed they were just beings from Hell that couldn't tell the difference between pain and pleasure. When they played with someone it wasn't a punishment but just having fun.

Perhaps the reason they make the deal and let Kristie go is because since she was not looking for the box she wouldn't be as fun.

Second one it seemed they were just playing with her, giving her time to accept the gift they are going to give her. When the Doctor comes in it seems more of a territorial dispute than the 4 being the heroes. Although I suspect the realization they were once humans actually made them weaker and why they were able to be killed.

It does seem that the more they made it got more confusing their roles.

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[–] quint88 9 years ago

Youre absolutely right that it was a territorial dispute rather than any particular heroism; and one point Channard even says that he is 'taking over this operation'.

I have a lot of questions about cenobite Channard, such as the gigantic tentacle attached to his head. Is that Leviathan? Does Leviathan take over him completely, which it didnt do with Pinhead and co? Why did L want the change in management, and why didnit decide to abandon Channard at the end?

[–] HellboundHero 9 years ago

It could interpreted that way I guess, but the way Elliot looks at Kirsty before he's killed makes me think he was protecting them from Channard.

[–] quint88 9 years ago

^I agree, but only after he became Elliot again. When Channard first appears on the scene, there's actually a kind of amusing expression on Pinhead's face when Kristy retreats to the corner, as if to say "where the hell do you think you're going?"

[–] HellboundHero 9 years ago

It's interesting to think that maybe even after remembering his humanity, he's not entirely his old benevolent self until after Channard turns him physically human.

[–] Comatose_Conscience 8 years ago

I have a lot of questions about cenobite Channard, such as the gigantic tentacle attached to his head. Is that Leviathan? Does Leviathan take over him completely, which it didnt do with Pinhead and co? Why did L want the change in management, and why didnit decide to abandon Channard at the end?

I've always been of the impression that Leviathan is indeed controlling him, and that it has Channard kill the cenobites for their repeated failings across the first two films (i.e., doing deals with mortals, failing to take Kirsty back, letting Frank and Julia escape, remembering their humanity etc.). At that point, Leviathan must've just recognised them as having become total liabilities.

[–] HellboundHero 8 years ago

I wouldn't count Julia against them, since it seems Leviathan let her go back to Earth to "recruit" Channard.

[–] brucelee-38476 8 years ago

the reason is because unlike the other cenobites he wanted to be part of hell the others were just lonley people confused about life so there memories were taken but he wanted to be what he is so he was alloweed to keep his memories