Was Dian crazy?


Hi,

I've actually studied gorillas for many years. After being around them for just awhile, they are like people to you. Their intelligence and kindness, their personalities...and I don't mean this in the sense that you love your pets. They are real people. It's quite uncanny. I met Jane Goodall once and we discussed chimps and their behaviors, but I prefer gorillas. The gorillas were indeed her family. What she gave up with Bob (who had left his wife for her, and their entire relationship was made a big deal of in the anthropological world) was questionable anyhow, as a man who's willing to cheat on and leave his wife isn't necessarily going to stick around. However, the gorillas were people she knew, people who weren't aware of the things going on around them. I know this sounds very weird, but she wasn't crazy. Go to the zoo and spend a few hours a day in front of the gorilla cage for about a week. You tell me you aren't affected by their obvious intelligence and beauty.

-Amy

Men were Men. Women were Pirates.
www.pirateangel.com

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I met Jane Goodall


OMG, me, too! Twice, actually! Isn't she the nicest lady? She's been an idol of mine since I was seven (and I'm 17 now).

She's gonna ask us something on Edgar Allan Poe!

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Hi,

Yes, she was very sweet. I could barely hear her, she talked so softly. She apparently found me engaging enough to hold up a line of about 100 people to talk to me about apes.

-lady

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[deleted]

We're talking about Jane Goodall, not Dian Fossey... pardon me if I'm mistaken, but Jane Goodall is still alive. At the very least, she surely was 10 years ago...

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Um... Jane Goodall and is very much alive!

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[deleted]

Hi..Anybody here knows Dr Charlotte Uhlenbroek??

She s known as Jungle woman..She is quite beautiful skillful
She reminds me big times with Dian Fossey although I wish her better luck than Dian

She is a young zoologist presenting documentaries about wild natural life and Gorillas on BBC

Check that link
http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines/e11/86/cousin.html

She s quite brave pretty woman..I really like her

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Based on the movie, I would say yes, she was crazy. She thought she could go around almost-hanging and then burning brutal killers' homes. Then she thought they would not come for revenge after that. Also she hired armed rangers to provide security for the gorillas yet she was not sane enough to use them to provide security for herself, which would obviously be needed after such wanton acts. In addition to this I suspect that she thought of the Alpha gorilla as her husband. Given all of this it seems reasonable to me that she was crazy.

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I think that's a fair way to describe her. Who else would dump Bryan Brown so callously? ;)

Seriously, tho, I don't believe her behavior ever rose to the level of clinically crazy.

However, the film does a good job of portraying her as a somewhat troubled personality who grew more unstable in the last years of her life. Unlike Jane Goodall, who was a solid scientist, Fossey came to the wild at age 35 more eager to live with gorillas than study them. According to conservationists who worked with her (and as the movie shows), she called the locals wogs and tortured poachers, whipping them with stinging nettles, putting nooses around their necks, kidnapping their children, and burning their belongings (although one source claims she did NOT burn their huts). As one scene (again based on interviews) shows, she terrified poachers into believing she was a sorceress capable of casting spells on them. It got so bad the Rwandan government fined her $600 for torturing a suspected poacher. The movie also fleetingly refers to her loathing of tourists. On one occasion she fired several shots over the heads of a party of Dutch tourists who had come to her Karisoke research center uninvited. She referred condescendingly to the junior researchers working under her as "mtoto", Swahili for "children".

The catalyzing force for such errant behavior was the combined stress of being out in the bush too long and of extreme empathy with the endangered gorillas. Even Fossey's respect predecessor, George Schaller, had gone too far on occasion, as when he allowed tracker Sanweckwe to shoot a cow belonging to the Watusi, whose pastoral encroachments threatened mountain guerrilla habitat. He also threatened to shoot all the Watutsi's cattle if they didn't leave. Other researchers who spent prolonged periods of isolation in the bush reported hypersensivity and overreaction to events which improved when they once again had people with whom to share experiences.

Prolonged isolation, more than anything else, is the likely explanation for Fossey's statement in a letter to the wife of the Rwandan ambassador, that she wished she could have died in Digit's place.

From early adulthood on, Fossey was a chain-smoking misanthrope with an unhappy childhood who preferred animals and young children to adults. According to her ex-lover (the character played by Bryan Brown) she was extremely critical of her own body, neglected her appearance, and claimed to have been emotionally abused by her parents. Toward the end of her life she suffered from emphysema.

But living in the bush so long is probably what cast her over the edge. Alcoholism as well, perhaps, at least in the last years of her life. I was rather surprised that this was not given greater emphasis in the film. By 1973-1974, researchers who were willing to go on record reported that she was going though a case of whiskey a week. And that's when her always mercurial behavior crossed over into the downright bizarre.





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She was just trying to protect the gorillas.

I thought she was funny, because she was so kind of...crazy, we'll not that crazy just that she had a temper and everyone's got a temper, only i guess her one was worse.

I like Dian, she's a crack up in the movie.

I'm sure she wasn't as bad as you say she was in real life, though.

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"I'm sure she wasn't as bad as you say she was in real life, though."

How can you be so sure? I can't be sure either, since I never worked with her, but what I've written is based on interviews with conservationists who collaborated with her. If you're interested, I recommend The Dark Romance of Dian Fossey, written by the former editor of Esquire magazine, which identifies its many interview sources, including including State Department cables. Her use of the term wogs is verified in letters and by many friends and acquaintances, several of whom are willing to be mentioned by name. Needless to say, her own heavily re-edited account of her life in Africa, Gorillas in the Mist, is highly selective and contradictory, but helpful.

To cite one example of documented evidence: in 1979 she wrote the US ambassador in Rwanda recommending a shoot-to-kill policy toward poachers as the only means of protecting the mountain gorilla.

Putting aside the allegations of racism, torturing of poachers, and shooting over the heads of tourists, no one can deny that she was contemptuous of the local population. When she ran it, her center did nothing to reach out to them and educate them about the gorillas, and most important, did nothing to ensure the gorilla's long-term future by seeking ways to give locals a financial stake in Virunga conservation efforts. After her death, this policy, or "non-policy" changed and the gorilla population is thriving as never before. To the best of my knowledge, there have been no further "vendetta killings" of gorillas since Fossey's death. (Many researchers, along with US and Rwandan officials, believe the killings of the Group 4 gorillas by poachers were motivated by a desire for revenge against Fossey's humiliations).

Credit should be given where credit is due: she did strive to turn Karisoke into a first-class research center, she made some noteworthy contributions to the study of social behavior among gorillas, and she enlisted the world's sympathy for the plight of mountain gorillas as no one before.

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how can you??

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I've read The Dark Romance of Dian Fossey and find that it contrasts greatly with other published works about Fossey, more notably (besides her own book) Woman in the Mist. I've read and heard over the years many accounts of her being incredibly cruel to mountain-dwellers, fellow researchers, and countless other people, but I found Dark Romance rather sensationalistic, tending to exaggerate her erratic and anti-social behavior and downplay her positive attributes.

If I recall, the book speculates (with little or no evidence) that Fossey was raped while imprisoned during the civil war, which made her go kinda batty around black men. And, if memory serves, that she was a lesbian, which is why she didn't like people in general. It's as if calling her racist--which, as you point out, is easily verifiable--wasn't enough; they had to add a splash of rape to the mix, to give it that soap opera flare. Not just anti-social (not as easibly verifiable, but she certainly wasn't Miss Congeniality), they had to make her an anti-social lesbian to boot (with no evidence). I prefer Woman in the Mist, personally.

P.S. I could have Dark Romance mixed up with one or more other Fossey sources. If so, I apologize for misrepresenting the book. I read it many, many years ago.

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Just the simple thought of Dian Fossey and her devotion towards these beautiful gorillas sends a chill down my spine. And well...people call her crazy but lets not forget some people realize animals has got the same right to walk and breathe as we humans have. Her behaviour is no different than a mother or a father protecting her children, and yeah maybe she didnt give alot of thoughts towards the locals, but then again she lost her heart to an endangered species and reacted like most with half a heart did.

Crazy...nah...all heart

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Just a few points, first off. Passionate people frequently are refered to as "crazy". Open racism among people of Fossey's time was not uncommon. Women who choose career over relationships and exhibit "masculine" qualities often get accused of being lesbians, even now when the practice has become more acceptable. I would attribute her antisocial personality to a chemical imbalance, environmental factors from childhood, or a combination of both before I would sexuality. If the alcoholism is true, this was probably more of a bi-product of her erratic behavior, rather than a cause of it. I agree isolation probably played a role. People who have a great love of animals often have a disdain for people. Some turn to animals from being predisposed to a dislike of people and poor treatment of animals by humans exacerbates this. I also agree conservation education of the native people was very important and Fossey was OBVIOUSLY not properly suited for that role, nor the one of managing the center's personel. A PR person, someone with a better understanding and appreciation of the people (ie, minus the racist views) was in order, with Fossey left to excerise her talent in the field research department. I feel this might have aided somewhat in lessing conflict.

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I'm not so sure I agree with the notion that Fossey was predisposed to disliking people. Remember, she was a physical therapist who worked with disabled children before she went to Africa. I do believe she isolated herself quite a bit, and may have been socially awkward prior to her years in Africa, but her anti-social behavior probably grew from the frustration of fighting an uphill battle with a corrupt government and locals whose traditions were at odds with her work. The growing tourist industry also seemed to piss her off, and further alienated her, but it was probably the only way to make the conservation effort economically feasible. I think one of the things the movie got right was revealing the economic impact on the human population of removing gorillas as a commodity.

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What crazy woman does not talk about her love for something as the reason behind her actions?

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Seems as though you have a fair view of Dian Fossey. What are some of the best factual links to learn more about her?

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You sound as though you're in jr high. The whole thing kind of went over your head didn't it?


suzycreamcheese RIP Heath Ledger 1979-2008

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Thank you for the information, hawks-bill. I appreciate it.

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The only scene in the movie that made me think she was crazy was when she let the poacher out of the noose. He deserved to get comeuppance for his cold-blooded murder, and the poachers needed to be deterred from messing with the gorillas in the future. Had they been in a country with a non-corrupt government and functioning prison system, I would've said that she should have just turned the poachers in, and they could have lived out their lives in prison. However, that didn't seem to be an option at the time in Rwanda.

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What is the connection between the thread title and your first post?



'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings.

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I love animals, and I'm just as disgusted by poaching as you and the others are. But ladydautevielle, animals (including gorillas) are not people.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/people?s=t

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Yes! She was a horrible woman who ruined the lives of many Rwandans. She destroyed traps that the natives had set out to catch much smaller animals, because they could potentially hurt the gorillas. I'm all for protection of every species, but no one should choose one over the other. That's proper unfair treatment and Dian was responsible for it. She was also a racist and possibly alcoholic, but her worst mistake was alienating the natives and making them feels as they were less worth. Instead of watching a lie, might i suggest this instead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_of_Loving_Gr ace_(TV_series)

The last episode of this series is about Dian Fossey and loads, loads more.

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You seem to be very biased and you do not even know it.
Example is on your sentence: 'I'm all for protection of every species, but no one should choose one over the other'
Well it would seem that each and every one of us (humans) has already chosen us (humans) over them (every other species) and that is true because we are obviously not on the endangered list and everyone else is! Probably, the only person who chose them over us, was Dian and you clearly called her: 'a horrible woman who was possibly an alcoholic'

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Oh please, the woman was batsh!t crazy. And gorillas are not "real people".

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