What Did We Miss? - Crossing Delancey (1988) Discussion

[–] ohkrunk 20 years ago

i came across it on hbo and couldn't stop watching... not because i liked it (i didn't), but it was like a freaking trainwreck. for some reason it irritated me to the point where i wanted to see what other people had to say about the movie. i'm as puzzled as you.

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[–] solesister 19 years ago

and am glad to see that there are some kindred spirits out there. I thought I was the only one who was offended by the overall prejudice of the message, which seemed to be "all Gentiles are frauds and phonies; all Jews should stick to their own kind."

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[–] Mickyfinn 19 years ago

Didn't get that message. The only phony I see is Anton Maas, and that had little to do with being Gentile.

You just have to be resigned-
You're crashing by design

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[–] faibrit 9 years ago

You got the message of this movie entirely wrong and I find your comments that the film's underlying message 'all Jews should stick to their own kind' really offensive.

Although we are told that Sam the pickles man is Jewish, Anton Maas, the novelist that Izzy has a 'thing' for, may well have been Jewish too. There is NO indication that he was a Gentile.

The kernel of this beautifully sensitive film is located in Izzy's inner conflicts between her past roots and the more exciting and wild modernity which she believes is a more true expression of herself. The movie's premise has very little to do with Jews and Gentiles, and it is certainly NOT expressing the message that Gentiles are all frauds.

This film could have been written about any young woman who is raised in a tradition that is deeply wedded to her love for her grandma, but that she now finds herself disconnected from.

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[–] mdonln 8 years ago

solesister says > and am glad to see that there are some kindred spirits out there. I thought I was the only one who was offended by the overall prejudice of the message, which seemed to be "all Gentiles are frauds and phonies; all Jews should stick to their own kind."

I think this movie had its problems but I don't think being prejudiced was one of them. I see it as a story about Izzy's ambivalence about what she wants for her future. It's something most of us have to work out for ourselves.

In her case Izzy seemed to be closing off from certain possibilities. She wavers between her options for a while then seems to make a decision in the end. Her decision is not a statement about which option is universally better or worse; it's what may or may not be the best choice for that character.

Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]

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[–] somedaysrstones 20 years ago

I'm guessing you are taking this movie, and perhaps yourselves also, just a bit too seriously! I love this movie and count it among my top ten favorites, and I come from a similar background and set of circumstances, and the same area of the country in which the movie is located. I did not find it offensive in the least, rather I found the 'stereotypes' as you put it, to be hilarious and at times dead on! I thoroughly enjoyed this lighthearted escape, and hope other can also!!!!!

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[–] Mickyfinn 20 years ago

Let's see:

Acting...Bad
Writing...bad
Direction...bad
Sterotypes offensive
grandmother annoying

No, it doesn't sound like you missed anything- you disliked it completely. Why would you want someone to try to change your mind - I certainly won't waste my time trying.

You just have to be resigned-
You're crashing by design

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[–] cabaretwoman 19 years ago

I completely enjoyed this movie. Can someone please give me the heads up on what was so stereotypically offensive? And what is so annoying about the grandmother? I thought she was charming. I wish I had a bubbe just like her.

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[–] Mickyfinn 19 years ago

I can only think they mean the Jewish stereotypes- but I found the characters charming (but then again, I am not Jewish).

Or perhaps the 'cab driving' couple at the end.

You just have to be resigned-
You're crashing by design

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[–] cabaretwoman 19 years ago

To me they were not Jewish stereotypes. To me they were simply Jewish.

The 'cab drving' couple? It's been years since I've seen this film. (I have it somewhere). Could you remind me please?

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[–] Mickyfinn 19 years ago

When Izzy leaves Anton to go to her bubbies to meet Sam, she catches a ride with an immigrant? couple who are just learning English and to drive.

You just have to be resigned-
You're crashing by design

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[–] myndchanger 17 years ago

Bad acting? Peter Riegert and Amy Irving were great. The Grandmother was supposed to be annoying. She was also incredibaly sweet. I wish my Grandmother had been less a snob and more like Bubbie.

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[–] theyarnprincess 19 years ago

As my mother always says, "That's what makes horse racing."

To me, it was less about the stereotypes (and sometimes stereotypes exist for a reason) and more about the concept of being able to be who you are, not who you think you should be. In each scene of Izzy in her Upper West Side life (or was it the East side -- it's been a while since I've seen the movie), we realize that she doesn't belong there because she doesn't truly feel like she belongs there. And when she goes back to be with her grandmother on the Lower East Side, she doesn't feel like she belongs there, either because she has spent so much time trying to escape it. It is only when she allows herself to really be "in the moment" so to speak that she is able to find a place for herself.

It's also about doing something out of love for another person, even if you don't want to, and learning that the person was right all along and maybe knew you better than you knew yourself.

As for stereotypes, the grandmother could be of any ethnicity (I often say the same about "My Big Fat Greek Wedding"). It seems she only wants what is best for her grand-daughter. Anton Maas and Izzy's cohorts at the bookstore definitely exist -- I've met them, and I *know* I've been in that taxi many times. In fact, in my family, it's known as being in a "Crossing Delancey cab." That feeling of being jerked all over the place because the driver has only a cursory knowledge of the roads. Maybe it's not an ethnic stereotype, but rather a New York stereotype.

And one stereotype I wish existed --and I don't believe it does-- is the character of Sam the Pickle Guy. If anyone knows him, please, please let me know.

All in all, I thought the movie was sweet, and I make reference to it frequently. I'm sorry that you didn't enjoy it, but it's the nice thing about this industry -- I'm sure that there are movies that you do love!

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[–] liberalmedia 18 years ago

I realized recently that one of the reasons I loved Crossing Delancey so much is that I too have family from the New York immigrant community, from a time and place that is gradually fading into memory. I'm not Jewish, but I know what it's like to head back to the old neighborhood on the weekend to eat grandma's good cooking and listen to the aunts speak in the language of the old country (in our case, Hungarian), or to go shopping at a New York fruit and vegetable stand.

Izzy is indeed between two worlds, and her dilemma goes beyond whether to reside in the old neighborhood or embrace her rent-controlled, celebrity-studded life. She has a nasty habit of getting involved with men who want her for what they can get out of her. ***SPOILER ALERT*** Notice that her married lover sees her completely at his convenience and without notice, and that Anton casually switches between women and wants Izzy once he can make use of her work ethic AND her body. "Izzy, I felt a kinship!" "You felt an administrative need!"

In Sam, Izzy finally meets someone who is genuinely interested in her and isn't even there just because of the matchmaker. He also feels no need to apologize for who he is or what he does, though we notice that Izzy's uncomfortable with the unglamorous trappings of pickle-dom. This story is about class as much as anything else, frankly.

As for the independent bookstore where Izzy works, that sort of thing is also gradually being destroyed by the world as it is now. Yes, I can assure you that such places still exist, at least for the moment, and they're staffed by the quirkiest, artiest bunch of people you can imagine.

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[–] gkenos-1 19 years ago

I can't believe you. You really completely missed this story. If you found the bubba annoying,you must not have had a bubba. I've known many such little ladies and felt she absolutely personified them. Stereotypes.... This was a story about a JEWISH girl and her JEWISH Bubba and their relationship as well as being a romance. Were they not supposed to act JEWISH if they are JEWISH.? The acting,writing and direction were top notch. You are simply offended because you are probably jewish and are desperately trying to escape who you are

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[–] LordLustworthy 19 years ago

I just warched it last night, and like the person who started this thread, I wanted to like it.

It was cute in parts, but not funny enough. On its video box it made the unfortunate mistake of comparing itself to Moonstruck, a mark CD misses by a longshot.

The "Bubbe" character is not nearly as endearing as Olympia Dukakis's character in Moonstruck. (And while I admit I'm not Jewish, I found merely the repetition of the word Bubbe very annoying. And the scene where we first meet her having her chin hairs plucked by Irving was rather unpleasant too.

The matchmaking woman was funny. She made the most of her lines, as much of the script depends on good performances since on paper it isn't really humorous. Peter Riegert's sweet performance is what gives the film its tender moments, good since the genuinely funny ones are few and far between.

In short, I'm glad I saw it. I liked the message, but I don't really have any desire to see it again. I was hoping it would be more quirky like Bagdad Cafe, or more off the wall like the little-seen JoBeth Williams movie, American Dreamer. But at best it was just a pleasant diversion.

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[–] dinkyla 19 years ago

Seems to me that folks didn't like this movie simply because the characters in it actually had an identifiable ethnic identity that they couldn't connect with because it didn't seem "realistic." But I think they didn't seem realistic because the folks probably don't have much experience living in New York or being around old Jews.

The old woman is called Bubbe because that's sometimes what old Jewish Grammas called; it's like being called Gramma.

And I don't think that the movie was saying "this is how Jewish people are and this is how Gentile people are." Rather it seems to me that this movie is about one particular woman's struggle between going for the intellectual world or the non-intellectual world in her search for someone to love. Not everyne's story is a WASPy one, and it's silly to expect that all stories will reflect your life exactly. How many English-language movies are there about Jews? Not many. And how many are about Christians? Pretty much all of them.

Being an un-intellectual pickle-seller is not at all a Jewish stereotype. If anything, the "Jewish hyperintellectual nervous wreck" (a la Woody Allen, Jerry Seinfeld, or Larry David) is the stereotype. This movie was going AGAINST sterreotypes. And by including an old woman who plays feeble and is really quite strong and sturdy, the movie was going against the stereotype of what it means to be elderly.

I'm sure that this story feels very unlikely and untrue to folks who aren't from New York or who aren't used to coexisting with other cultures the way you HAVE to in Manhattan. The confused cabby is a boring stereotype, but dang, the movie was done in the 80s. Give it a little slack.

But just because a character has some ethnic background doesn't make him or her a sterreotype. In order for that to be true -- you'd need for the stereotype to appear in in a whole lot of American movies and films and plays. That's not the case here.

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[–] coldwind9 19 years ago

What did you miss? How about everything? Acting, writing, direction--bad? What do you know about acting, writing, or directing? Forgive me for being blunt, but obviously you have never acted, written, or directed anything, professionally or otherwise, else you couldn't possibly be so ignorant. This is a brilliant movie, the acting, the direction, the writing, the pace, is all superb. Sylvia Miles, Jeroen Krabbé, John Bedford Lloyd, and Rosemary Harris give wonderful over-the-top performances. Amy Irving (how the hell could Spielberg leave her for Kate Capshaw ?) gives a wonderfully nuanced turn as Isabelle. Peter Reigert -- once again the short curly-haired sorta funny-looking guy takes a leading man role and NAILS IT! And Reizl Bozyk -- you don't think that's brilliance, you don't know your tuchus from a hole in the ground.

TNT's been running a movie round the clock lately, Tommy Boy, let me recommend you go watch that, you'll be much happier.

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[–] coldwind9 19 years ago

What did you miss? How about everything? Acting, writing, direction--bad? What do you know about acting, writing, or directing? Forgive me for being blunt, but obviously you have never acted, written, or directed anything, professionally or otherwise, else you couldn't possibly be so ignorant. This is a brilliant movie, the acting, the direction, the writing, the pace, is all superb. Sylvia Miles, Jeroen Krabbé, John Bedford Lloyd, and Rosemary Harris give wonderful over-the-top performances. Amy Irving (how the hell could Spielberg leave her for Kate Capshaw ?) gives a wonderfully nuanced turn as Isabelle. Peter Reigert -- once again the short curly-haired sorta funny-looking guy takes a leading man role and NAILS IT! And Reizl Bozyk -- you don't think that's brilliance, you don't know your tuchus from a hole in the ground.

TNT's been running a movie round the clock lately, Tommy Boy, let me recommend you go watch that, you'll be much happier.

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[–] theowinthrop 18 years ago

I think those who missed anything here just were set to miss anything.

The so-called stereotypes are not stereotypes. Grandmothers do want to see their grandkids get married and be happy. The Sylvia Miles character is overbearing, but there are people like that, and there are (in many communities) professional matchmakers. Izzy and her girl friends are not stereotypical yuppy types.

As for the intelligensia, one might find only two with some type of personality flaws in them. Jerome Krabbe's "Anton Maas" is self-centered, but from his point of view he is also helpful (if Izzy had accepted his offer in the film she might have seen his moodier side more often, but he was also quite helpful in the careers of his girl friend assistants, as witness his previous one that he gave valuable contacts to). Also his run-in with Rosemary Harris at the literary soiree is of interest. When we watch it, we probably resent that Krabbe slightly kicks Peter Riegert in shifting his foot. But he's not really concentrating all on Riegert.

He is listening to Harris's condescending comments to him about writing in his native Dutch rather than in her native English. He actually gives a fairly intelligent response to her (and a nice, polite put-down) reminding her he lives in New York and speaks English. He also reminds her that he has written "books" not "a book".

Harris is the other member of the intelligensia who is flawed. She is a Marianne Moore type poet, who rarely appears in public, and is lured out to be the center of attention. She is obviously relishing it. And when she sees Krabbe there, a rival literary lion of sorts, she tries to patronize him with unwanted (and rather nasty) advice. But she gets back a proper response quick enough (which she tries to bury as quickly as it is thrown out).

Altogether it is a first rate film. I am sorry that not everyone favors it, but I think it was terrific.

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[–] cabaretwoman 18 years ago

Once again, theowinthrop hits the mark precisely. Thank you.

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

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[–] theowinthrop 18 years ago

Thank you too.

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[–] ANNEEZ2 18 years ago

I totally agree with the Owinthrop. But more importantly, if you're not female and never been 34 and single, you have no idea what the situation is that Izzy faced. Yes, this is a comment on being a Jewish single, and also a comment on the intelligensia, but it's more universally a comment on being in your mid-30's, single, and lonely (different from being alone).

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[–] Camargue 18 years ago

theo winthrop has the entire effort down pat.

This is a wonderfully entertaining, meaningful, and gently insightful film.

It cannot be compared to obvious, over-acted, over-hyped, exaggerated movies that only pretend to represent real life.

The characters are both precious and real, the music is meaningful and sweet, and the plot is a joy; all because the casting and writing and direction are superb.

I bought it on videotape and I will buy it again on CD.

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[–] 18 years ago

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