MovieChat Forums > Cobra Verde (1987) Discussion > Things that amused/annoyed me in this fi...

Things that amused/annoyed me in this film

posted 18 years ago by paw_skywalker
18 replies | jump to latest

This is my second Herzog/Kinski film, and I must say that although I enjoyed 'Der Zorn Gottes' very much, this one was not up to the latter's standards. Here are some of the things that amused/annoyed me rather than intruiged me.

1. At the beginning of the film before Cobra Verde gets hired by the plantation owner he scares a slave so much just by looking at him that the slave voluntarily releases on of the other slaves that was being whipped, and grabs a hold of the pole and gets a good whipping himself, without being tied up. Then the punisher continues to whip him on his pants instead of his back. This seemed very amusing to me, which I think it was not meant to be.

2. The wide eyed prince; One of the prince's servants tells that he is crazy and that is why he looks that way. I know we find out later that he only pretended to be crazy (a good way to become king, I guess) but to me it still looks as if he was afraid of the cameras instead; I could'nt help making a little laugh when I saw him the first time, and then again every time thereafter.

3. The accident at the sugar mill; the slave gets his arm squeezed and the two white men just stare at it as if its part of the process without doing anything about it. In reality, I am sure efforts would have been done to rescue the slave. A slave with one arm is still a slave. The plantation owners needed all the free labour that they could get.

4. Klaus Kinski's tantrum; I am sure that Kinski shoves people around in the film because the actor felt like it, and not because the role required it of him. The film would have been more subtle and moving without him having nearly as many fits.

5. Euclides; I'm sure that this little freak is in the film only to shock us as viewers; well, it does not work if the freak is a very poor actor who on top of that has been dubbed: tragi-comical.

6. Cobra Verde's stupid attempt to drag a boat that weighs 10 times, at least, as much as himself out in the surf, whereafter he tumbles about in the water before he finally tires out. No, I don't think he died; he merely succumbed to his destiny.

7. The nun choir; I don't know about you, but they sure did not look like nuns to me. Pretty and sweet they looked, and nicely they sang, but 'oh, these must be the nuns' was not what I was thinking.

What do you think? Have I missed something completely, or am I spot on?

[–] lescavanaugh 18 years ago

1. Yeah, a very stylized moment, almost like something out of a western. Great to be at the movies, eh? :)

2. I too was amused, but not bothered by it.

3. I disagree. The plantation owner was clearly miffed that he was losing an arm's worth of manpower. Other people were running around trying to stop the machine. Not much else they could do.

4. Leopards don't change their spots. I like Kinski's raging intensity in this movie, but I'll allow that the word "subtle" does not quite fit the man.

5. Kind of weird, huh? I'm not sure where Herzog was coming from here. It is interesting, though, that the movie begins and ends with Cobra Verde encountering a disabled person.

6. Heck no, the ending is amazing! Herzog's comment on slavery and civilization; the harder we grip the reigns of our destiny, the more tethered we become. Or something like that. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it. Maybe Cobra Verde has snapped and just wants to get the hell off that continent but can't. The scene works either way.

7. Hottest nuns ever!

[–] adamwarlock 18 years ago

1. meant to be that Kinski has this power over others, that's what made the sugar plantation owner take him in. They didn't tie up the slave I guess due to not letting the scene have to drag on.

2. I laughed at him too but Herzog uses non-professionals so one has to expect non-acting.

3. They were indifferent to his suffering but did want him to be cut lose.

4. Kinski is always like that, that's what he watch him for.

5. Same as #2, I thought he was great in a weird sort of way. Herzog grabs freaks the way Fellini grabbed people with weird faces.

6. Best scene in the film & perhaps a fitting end to Kinski's career, he didn't die right then but is getting there.

7. There were nuns in the mind of the corrupt priest who seemed to hint that he fathered many of them.

[–] peter81965 18 years ago

the small inn keeper reminded me of a spaghetti western carachter. i think the idea is of courage, ambition , determination etc being found where you might not expect, also Cobra Verde's identification with 'outsiders'.
the nuns' choir was a parody... just as eveything in the colonies were a grotesque parody of 'civilised' society. (remeber this priest was a pimp who gave communion to a goat).

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[–] BarbaraJDotson 17 years ago

I have just watched the film, and I do agree with Pedro when he says "This movie was flawless from the opening scene to the haunting ending. Simply put this movie is a masterpiece and Kinski gives one of the greatest performances ever captured on celluloid!" I have seen "Nosferatu" and "Fitzcarraldo". This film seems to be Kinski's true day in the sun, the last sun.

I'm glad there are people interested in his work. It is interesting that we _do_ watch Kinski for what he does, his fits, his intensity. What is it that draws us in and makes us want to watch more?

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] HRPrognsnuf 17 years ago

This film really did have a spaghetti western feel to it in some parts. I think it's actually rather fitting since Kinski often had bit parts in spaghetti westerns and I think the whole bartender with Verde was a homage to that. Scaring someone off with a look is also characteristic of that, Cobra was a larger than life character.

[–] the_real_asmoron 17 years ago

I love when someone calls someone else an idiot and uses "your" instead of "you're".

Also there is nothing wrong with the trilogy. Which has nothing to do with this movie in any way.

Amateur...

[–] ziggy83 17 years ago

Kinski doesn't have subtlety? I guess you haven't seen Nosferatu. And for more than half of Aguirre, the wrath of god Kinski's gives subtle emotions, hardly any major emotions until the last half hour of the film.

[–] Anthropophobe 17 years ago

1- one of many "mistakes" i noticed but they are common among movies using non-professional acting like did Herzog, Pasolini or Jodorowsky... it's just part of the bill...

2- for me one of the most difficult things to accept... how Cobra Verde could help a "crazy pretender to the throne?"... maybe a translation problem? my german isn't that good you know!... in my humble opinion that guy has Grave's disease (hypertyroidism!)

3- i guess the other people running on that scene were trying to do something, yes. no way a white man would taint his hands or risking his own arm for the slave's one...

4- that's Kinski way... exagerated all the time...

5- euclides is one of the weakest point of the movie: how could a hunchback cripple own a bar on 19th century brazil? almost impossible...

6- yep... that's destiny...

7- nice nuns... that's parody... like someone said... the whole colonialist thing was a joke...

8- how can be a brazilian fort in africa-ghana? it shouldn't be a portuguese fort? they should be colonialist around that area.

9 - by the way my favourite Herzog-Kinski movie (til now!) is FITZCARRALDO... but by far the most obscure and intense of the 3 i saw (i still miss nosferatu e woyzeck)

"you are the homework.
no student at sight"
F.K.

[–] uglyredhill 16 years ago

Kinski was a great actor, but he was genuinely aberrant and uncontrollable by the time 'Cobra Verde' was made, and the lack of actual performance almost pulls the whole film's structure to tatters. It's a case of doing what they could in spite of him (they couldn't even get a English dub out of him without some extraordinary fee). It's not a perfect film by any means.

One scene that hasn't been mentioned are the singing/dancing topless girls, who reappear at the credits. It's a beautiful scene right up until Kinski steps into it (quite literally), and makes a deviant feast of it. In the DVD commentary Herzog regrets allowing him near them.

[–] jimmy_miller 16 years ago

I enjoyed this film a lot, but at a certain point in the film the excitement and magic just fell through. If I'd have to put my finger on it, it was probably after the scene in Africa where his face is painted black. The film just seemed to lose its energy and I wasn't into it as much anymore...

It's the same thing with most of the Herzog/Kinski films that I've seen, the story and the lead characters are great but they just can't carry the full length of a feature film. Moments of greatness are always pulled down by scenes that are either dull or unnecessary or just don't make sense.

I still love the films Cobra Verde and Aguirre though.

[–] Henry J Sosenite 16 years ago

a lot of the things you listed are things I loved about the movie. one of the things that did bother me, though, is basically what other people are saying, that Kinski overstepped his bounds a little. I've also always found the first ten minutes a little strange and out of sync with the rest, but again, it's part of the charm.

"Beautiful evening. you can almost see the stars..."

[–] Strausszek 16 years ago

The film has so many loopholes and improbable situations - one of the more obvious is, how could Francesco (Kinski) just by arriving make hundreds of black throng to the abandoned fort and put it in order - all but rebuilding it! - plus getting the slave trade going again? All he has done so far in front of the few Africans he's met is to fire a rifle! He says himself, "I don't know why they are coming here" Is the idea that they's autiomaticaly assume he's the Devil, because "the Devil is white"? Hardly likely, he is by no means the only white man they've met. And the scenes with him training the Amazon legion are just ludicrous: "Hhheeeow- HAAAA!" (falls to ground lunging spear) Okay, he goes over the top in other films too, but here he doesn't exude a truly demoniac feeling, he's a mere freak, a weirdo figure.

The film is very fun to watch and visually stunning, but it's pulled down by its love for its own scenography. So many scenes are stretched out for no reason, while Kinski stands silently staring and tries to invoke numinous portent. As some have pointed out, it's probable that Herzog was trying to give a feeling of unreality and inherent strangeness to the entire film, but it comes out bizarre. It also feels like it's portraying blacks in a racist light: they are always milling about, engaged in nonsensical rituals and weird beliefs.

[–] PsychoDingo 13 years ago

I thought it was funny that the amazon army trained and trained and trained, then defeated their fearsome enemy without a fight.

LOLLYGAGGERS!!!