Someone just told me that Werner Herzog has been known to resort to animal abuse/killing in his movies. I'm trying to confirm or disprove this. I've seen Fitzcarraldo, Woyzeck, Stroszeck, Nosferatu and Aguirre, and except for the scene where Aguirre punches the horse, I didn't notice any animal cruelty at all. So I'm guessing maybe the person was refering to Cobra Verde? Is there any animal cruelty in this film?
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Thanks for clarifying that, Drac. I think the person probably confused Herzog with someone else. This was posted at another forum discussing animal cruelty in cinema:
just off-hand there's michael haneke chopping chicken heads, werner herzog pushing llamas, goats to death (but i guess he was in south america, so the euro laws don't apply?)
Ah, but remember, in Aguirre Klaus Kinski tosses a monkey.
If it makes you feel better, though, it's some great monkey-tossing. You'd think the guy had been tossing monkeys his whole life.
That cow scene was awful - I'm no animal lover, but that was a very haunting shot.
What's the Spanish for drunken bum?
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i've seen many herzog films and i don't of any with llamas and goats being pushed to death. i also don't know of a michael haneke film with chickens getting their heads cut off. haneke does have a film in which a pig gets shot in the head.
shareAnd of course dont forget the famous scene in Haneke's the Time of the Wolf, with the horse killings.
shareThere is also the dancing chicken in Strozsek, which I think is achieved by forcing it to stand on a hot plate or something. Doesn't sound like a big deal, but there is something vaguely offputting about how the camera lingers on it.
get a grip we eat millions of chickens everyday. Getting one to dance is a let off
shareI can't think of any Herzog films where an animal is pushed down a flight of stairs, but Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublyov has a few scenes that would seriously ruffle the feathers of animal rights activists, including a flaming cow and a horse shooting. Not sure if it's that movie, but a Tarkovsky-obsessed friend of mine says Rublyov has a deleted scene wherein a horse is pushed down some stairs with the intent of killing it. Unfortunately, the horse survived the first fall... so the crew led the beast back up the stairs and pushed it down again.
So far as animal cruelty in film goes, I've heard that Sergei Bondarchuk's Waterloo is second to none, with scores of horses practically slaughtered during the massive battle sequences. However, that's also second-hand information, this time via a high school history teacher who spent his childhood reading the encyclopedia because his town's only movie theatre burnt down and the city didn't have the cash to rebuild it. His wackiness aside, I can't locate any sources to back up these claims, which might indicate that (some) directors try to keep their treatment of animals secret.
I know I'm a bit off track here, but on a final note, Wikipedia has this to say on its page about the American Humane Association:
The AHA's Film and Television Unit has monitored the welfare of animals during the production of films and television programs since 1940. They are the source of the familiar disclaimer "No animals were harmed...", which is a registered trademark of the AHA. The Unit's creation was prompted by a scene in the 1939 film Jesse James in which a blindfolded horse was ridden off a cliff to its death.
Thanks, that information was indeed helpful. I'll know to avoid Waterloo, and yes I've heard it confirmed that in Andrey Rublyov the horse was shot in the neck (off camera) and thrown down the stairs for realism. Defenders of Tarkovsky say it's excusable becase the horse was going to be butchered anyway. But don't get me started on that ridiculous logic.
I don't know what the deal is with artsy directors (Tarkovsky, Haneke, Von Trier, Coppola). I think sometimes their arrogence & ego become so inflated that they're willing to sacrifice lives for the sake of their art. Makes me wonder what they would do if human lives were as expendable.
Anyway, I think Herzog is a cut above that. In all of his films he shows a tremendous respect for nature and its grandeur, so I don't think he would enter lightly into animal killings. I hope I'm not proven wrong.
Well, actually I've heard some horror stories of film crews getting seriously injured (or even killed) on Herzog's sets. But I'm sure that wasn't scripted or intended in any way!
I know this is two years old, but I'd just like to point out that the two famous 'animal cruelty' scenes that come to mind from Copolla's films (the horse's head and the Apocalypse sacrifices) were both apparently the results of well-timed opportunism rather than wasteful cruelty. You generally seem to be missing the point and letting rumours and imagination rule you.
What causes pip in poultry?
Hi Joe, you're dead wrong on this one. Coppola brought in animals by the truckload for slaughter. Normally the Ifugao tribe would not have been able to afford such a massacre, but Coppola was happy to bankroll it, provided that they took direction from him (i.e. chanting, dancing and other dramatic touches). And you think Coppola had nothing to do with it? He wasn't exactly Marlon Perkins hiding in the bushes with an 8mm handheld, if that's the delusion you suffer. For your perusal...
Ifugao Extras and The Making of Apocalypse Now
by Deirdre McKay and Padmapani L. Perez
http://www.oovrag.com/essays/essay2004a-3.shtml
quoted from above:
The 'extras' village' was given sacrificial animals that would have normally cost the Ifugao a lot; this was part of their agreement with the production company.
(Coppola) tried to shoot every ritual that the Ifugao performed. Once he asked Roben if the elders could chant in one of the scenes. Roben said that they would be willing but that the utterance of those chants must always be accompanied by a sacrifice of chickens. So Coppola went overboard and ordered a whole truckload of chickens, which were then distributed to the entire Ifugao group.
Some of the Ifugao even said that they shouldn't show Coppola any more rituals; otherwise they would never be allowed to go home.
Alright, I was a bit wrong. I was going by a recent interview with Coppola. I didn't say he had nothing to do with it though. And even so, I'm sure the animals didn't go to waste so I don't see how this would differ from animals bred for meat. It's ultimately a matter of taste ('scuse the pun).
What causes pip in poultry?
I'm sure the animals didn't go to waste so I don't see how this would differ from animals bred for meat. It's ultimately a matter of taste ('scuse the pun).
I like discussing this sort of stuff with intelligent moviegoers (Herzog, Tarkovsky fans, etc) because I learn a lot. I still haven't figured out the answer, but I've read some good opinions.
there is a scene in EVEN DWARFS STARTED SMALL where a monkey is tied to the cross
shareKinski loves to throw animals around..the Ocelot in Fitz and the monkey in Aguirre. :) As Herzog has said in the past, only Kinski can get away with it. heh
shareDon't forget that Kinski kicks the sacred snake, lol.
shareOMG lol that scene was just great.
Everybody is like "OH NO, THE SACRED SNAKE" and Kinski doesn't give a damn and kicks the poor thing to hell
Horror, Science Fiction & Fantasy
Glad someone on this thread finally pointed out the python! I loved that scene - it's pure Kinski.
"There is no inner peace. There is only nervousness and death." - Fran Lebowitz
I didn't see anyone else discussing it: Stroszek is actually probably the most notorious from what I've read. The dancing chicken, what makes it dance is that it's standing on a very hot surface. It heats up, and the chicken doesn't want burnt feet, so it "dances."
Another favorite filmmaker of mine is Alejandro Jodorowsky who is even worse. It bothers me, it certainly doesn't enhance the viewing experience for me.
Don’t forget in Aguirre they threw a chicken down the mountain side in the beginning. Whoever did it didn’t even let the chicken out of the cage.
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