Why did the Soviets invade Afghanistan? - The Beast (1988) Discussion

[–] charliecbc 15 years ago

The Soviets wanted to rule the world. Afghanistan is located in the center of the Asian continent, and it's geographically, culturally, and ethnically the crossroads of the continent. EVERY superpower has wanted to control Afghanistan, mostly just so their enemies couldn't use it as a staging ground for attacks on other regions. If the Soviets had taken Afghanistan, they could have launched and invasion of India, and the middle east. The Afghans have evolved for thousands of years in a culture of fighting these invaders, which is why they are still able to fight off modern soldiers. The most dangerous weapon is still the mind.
Anyway, it's all about location, that's why everybody wants Afghanistan. There's not much there in terms of resources, there's probably oil, who knows. NOBODY will ever truly conquer these people, and fortunately it is not America's intent to alter their culture. The Afghans have already established their fierce independence. I deeply respect Afghanistan, they are truly a noble group of people and I don't think anyone can destroy their spirit.

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[–] spammor 15 years ago

What a load of *beep* there charliecbc, did you saw it from some rambo movie or similar film and did your own script without reading about this war at all?
As for Pearl_Jade why are you asking this on a movie board? Is it hard to type soviet afghan war in google and find information for yourself or you want crackheads like charliecbc tell you some random stuff they made up.

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[–] dhenderson-2 15 years ago

If you did a little googling yourself, you might find charlie isn't totally full of piss and wind.
The truth lies somewhere between the two ends - Russian expansionism dating back centuries and being 'invited' into the country.
One thing - nobody who has invaded Afghanistan has ever stayed there very long - the Afghanis get pretty pissed off. It might be a fairly factioned country, but they tend to unite to kick out interlopers.

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[–] vertigo1982 15 years ago

One thing - nobody who has invaded Afghanistan has ever stayed there very long - the Afghanis get pretty pissed off. It might be a fairly factioned country, but they tend to unite to kick out interlopers.

Well, the Arabo-islamic invasion took some time, but it did leave some traces in Afghanistan...
Like the arabic alphabet... and, well... Islam.

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[–] subase 12 years ago

And then the mongols conquered afghanistan, and then the taliban, a foreign force, even though mostly ethnically pashtun.

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[–] Questdelsangraal 14 years ago

There is nothing wrong with asking historical questions.
Just move along if you do not like it.

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[–] barleyflake 15 years ago

Out of every race/nation/tribe of people on the Earth the one I have the most respect for the Afghans (coming closely second being the Russians ironically). I just love the fact that they are the only nation the survive in the modern world with an Honour Code intact; and if you read about its absolutely fascinating. Hospitality, Revenge and Sanctuary to someone even if they are your worst enemy, no other culture has a concept remotely simmilar to the last code, providing protection to someone on your honour regardless of whether it'll be the death of you, an Afghan's honour is certainly before his life. I just really admire that. Thier women also seem to be very brave. I'm infatuated with them as a people.

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[–] dannieboy20906 8 years ago

You have strange tastes in that which you find honor. I'm not going to invite you to any of my dinner parties. You are liable to steal all the food you don't eat and pee all over the table.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

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[–] chilicheeze 15 years ago

Excellent synopsis charliebc

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[–] evilatheist-1 15 years ago

I LOL'ed pretty hard at that :)

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[–] Imdb11168 12 years ago

POST NO 2 - by Charlie "The Afghans have already established their fierce independence. I deeply respect Afghanistan, they are truly a noble group of people and I don't think anyone can destroy their spirit."

If you don't mind me saying so, that's the biggest *beep* I heard since i passed school.

A brave man protects his wife and children before he fights. The Afghans ( Pashtuns ) point their guns at US Bombers flying 10000 feet overhead, when the bombs fall, the horsemen gallop away, the bombs fall on civilians. And the Pashtuns have been fighting everybody since a very long time.

The Pashtuns are anything but noble. They are selfish barbarians, in their quest for independence,m they have destroyed their own weak and powerless children and women who looked at them for security.

As for their warped tribal culture and religious fanaticism which defines their 'spirit', i wont even begin, because that's a never ending story

Darkness lies an inch ahead

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[–] killer3000ad 10 years ago

You didn't really answer the question you just ranted and raved nonsense.

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[–] Blueghost 10 years ago

by charliecbc » Mon Jan 5 2009 03:57:26
IMDb member since October 2006
The Soviets wanted to rule the world. Afghanistan is located in the center of the Asian continent, and it's geographically, culturally, and ethnically the crossroads of the continent. EVERY superpower has wanted to control Afghanistan, mostly just so their enemies couldn't use it as a staging ground for attacks on other regions. If the Soviets had taken Afghanistan, they could have launched and invasion of India, and the middle east. The Afghans have evolved for thousands of years in a culture of fighting these invaders, which is why they are still able to fight off modern soldiers. The most dangerous weapon is still the mind.
Anyway, it's all about location, that's why everybody wants Afghanistan. There's not much there in terms of resources, there's probably oil, who knows. NOBODY will ever truly conquer these people, and fortunately it is not America's intent to alter their culture. The Afghans have already established their fierce independence. I deeply respect Afghanistan, they are truly a noble group of people and I don't think anyone can destroy their spirit.

Only India was allied with the Soviet Union, and shared close relations. AND, Afghanistan was a Soviet protectorate.

I don't know where you got your history, but maybe you better get your money back on that education.

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[–] darkness_surroundz 8 years ago

oh bullish*t! Did you read this off the back of a box of LUCKY CHARMS cereal ?

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[–] hraider2001 15 years ago

buck83 pretty much summed it up.

Basically, the Soviet government saw that the country was spiraling out of Soviet control, and thus decided that military force would be the best way to pacify the region. However, when the forces moved in during December of '79, it had the opposite effect. Afghans and Muslims around the world saw this as an invasion and a slap in the face to Islam by non-believers. Thus, the insurgency stregthened against the weak Afghan government and the Soviet occupiers.

The US and the Saudi governments both gave a lot of money to the insurgents via Pakistan. (Read "Charlie Wilson's War)

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[–] Blueghost 15 years ago

Very true.

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[–] renaisancebill 14 years ago

Oil.

Not that there is any in Afghanistan, but it was in the way. Had the Soviets taken Afghanistan, they would have had the oil producing nations of Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, etc.. nearly surrounded.

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[–] mmckenzie-3 14 years ago

Like the US does now - do think the US might be up to something or are they just in the region to 'protect democracy'?

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[–] sfarlea_andrei 14 years ago

Buck83 is right, the Soviets were there at the request of the Afghan communist government which was failing to control the rebel forces, therefore in theory they were not an occupation force.
Regarding the war in Afghanistan, the official theory is:
- some brave rebels started fighting the oppressive communist Afghan government
- rebels start fighting harder and the government calls for Soviet support
- Soviets wreak havoc among rebels
- USA decides to supply the mujahedeens with weapons, who start inflicting heavy casualties on the Russians to the point where the Soviets decide it's best to go home

However, it appears that actually it was in the USA's interest to "create" the war and this is how they did it. It is a well-known fact that the population of Afghanistan is very divided into various tribes which often fight each other and there was unrest in the country long before the Soviet intervention. The USA saw the opportunity of luring the Russians into a "Vietnam" of their own and contrary to popular belief the CIA started supplying the rebels with weapons some time before the Soviet intervention. Without USA support it is obvious that the Afghan government would have solved the rebel problem itself very easily.
The idea was to draw the Soviet Union into a war which would contribute to its downfall, no Americans would have to die and there was no risk of getting nuked either. It was a win-win situation and it paid off.

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[–] SteveNZ 14 years ago

That's not the complete story, though. Fact is, there was a five-year-old pro-Soviet government in power in Afghanistan before the Soviet invasion, but the Soviets weren't happy with it, mainly because it had allowed a civil war to get started and was generally unpopular.

President Hafizullah Amin did indeed invite the Soviets into Afghanistan to help put down the insurgency, but he probably wasn't expecting the Soviets to subsequently kill him and replace him with a less Stalinist communist, Babrak Karmal.

By the time this happened the US was already funneling guns and ammo into Afghanistan, thereby helping to keep the war going. The Soviets may have thought the moderate Karmal would appease the Afghan populace, but that didn't work out. So, since they believed they couldn't afford to lose their last communist ally in the region, they responded by sending 120,000 soldiers in.

Not really enough; the Mujahideen had 10 times as many fighters, who might have looked like raggedy-ass tribesmen but were supplied with sophisticated infantry weapons by the US, Saudi Arabia, China and Pakistan.

In the short term it paid off for the US, especially since it contributed to the fall of the Soviet Union. But in the long term it's been disastrous.

Jeane Kirkpatrick, an evil and foolish woman who was US ambassador to the UN at the time of the war, claimed that the US should support authoritarian regimes (such as the Taliban) if they opposed communists because, she theorised against the evidence, they might someday be reformed, whereas communists were beyond salvation. This has turned out to be the exact opposite of reality -- the religious fanatics running the Mujahideen are showing no sign of going away, while the secular, western-oriented Soviet Union talked itself out of existence decades ago.

Question is, who's supplying the Mujahideen with guns and ammo now? My guess: Saudi Arabia, China and Pakistan. Who didn't see this coming?

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[–] aperezt 14 years ago

Seeing as most answers you got were rude at best ill ask you something: Why did the USA invade A'stan? Same thing. At least on the surface its the same intention. Wether it really is about rooting out terrorists/islamists/insurgents that threaten their domestic security, as both USSR and USA claimed, or wether it was the imperialistic tendencies of those countries under the prtext of 'national security' is another discussion. In my personal opinion its very roughly the latter.

Whats the point of having a signature? Only absolute losers have them...

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[–] canuckteach 14 years ago

Someone mentioned Charlie Wilson`s War - not great film-making but useful to give you an overview of the situation - with US-financed sophisticated but portable anti-tank, anti-aircraft weaponry, the Afghans were able to destroy Soviet equipment by the barrel-full. finally, the USSR had to pull out, but the Americans then lost interest and failed to rebuild the Afghan infrastructure. Anti-Soviet mercenaries, like Osama Bin Laden, now vented their hatred on the USA, and formed groups like Al-Quaeda to even the score.

Going further, Al-Quaeda`s first attempt to take down the World Trade Center was in 1993 - they almost succeeded, came within some meters of placing a van with heavy explosives in just the right spot. Next time, they took no chances: hijacked commercial flights in 2001.

Returning to the original question (why a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan?), it was a matter of promoting their own expansionist ideas, just as American involvement in Vietnam was to expand their notion. Both blocs figured their way was the best, both left a mess behind when they departed and both suffered a collapse of sorts after their respective ventures. that`s as non-partisan a summary as I can provide.

Afghanistan has always been ruled by a tribal system -- there was a monarchy in place in the mid-1950`s, I believe, dominated by the Pashtun tribe, but the country has been in a state of almost constant civil war since the late 70`s. A good book to read that traces some developments during this period is the
Kite Runner. There is the movie also, but the book gives you more insight into the tribal nature of the civilization. Certainly, the powerful alliance (dominated by the Pashtuns) that formed the Taliban had little use for the Afghan nationals who formed the Communist government, or their Russian handlers. However, I will forewarn you: Kite Runner has some unpleasant content.

:-) canuckteach (--:

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[–] Backfire-1 14 years ago

Canuckteaches answer was correct. Soviet war in Afghanistan compares perfectly to the one USA fought in Vietnam. Neither of the wars was an invasion trying to conquer territories or to defeat a enemy, but a support for a local political entity which was considered as an ally and/or a protective force in the area and at the same time a chance to diminish influence of a competitive superpower in the area. That was in case of Afghanistan for the soviet authority in Middle East and for the USA in Vietnam it was about the sphere of influence and power of loyal governments in South-East Asia.

Both conflicts were foreign policy of superpowers during cold war, it's simple as that. Intresting times and strange to people, who haven't lived during the those times...

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[–] Radalan 13 years ago

Afghans haven't "won" anyone because of "honour codes" and what not.
It's because of the rough and rugged terrain that doesn't give any chance to high tech warfare.

It's the same reason that U.S and France lost in Vietnam and Russians lost in Winter War. Once the terrain closes out tanks and all the other high grade stuff, it's man vs man and improvised guerilla warfare that decides the winner.

What clichés? Thats a word the wannabe critics use when they want to whinge.

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[–] robster_ 12 years ago

Terrain plays a part yes, but home-terrain also plays an big role or even a huge role in warfare. Russia had the chance of using their tanks as Finnish landscape is very even compared to other countries when disregarding our deep woods, but the Russians were tactically inferior in the 5 years or battling mostly as Finnish forces knew their grounds and could outsmart them.

"The tragedy of war is that these horrors are committed by normal men in abnormal situations."

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] subase 12 years ago

That's not the only reason, but oil security has been the dominant reason for u.s involvement in the middle east. The same probably applies to britain and russia too. And there's nothing wrong with that, afghans are just too primitive to be controlled by cushy western methods, mongol and taliban methods on the other hand were winning.

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[–] Gaslight1888 11 years ago

The Soviets invaded Afghanistan in December 1979 at the REQUEST of the Afghan Marxist government, then led by Hafizullah Amin of the People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan. This government came into power in April 1978 following a coup - the Saur Revolution.

Basically, the PDPA's pro-Soviet policies of land reform, promotion of atheistic values and such angered the traditional Afghan conservatives. In turn, these Afghans rose in revolt around 1978 and that is when the USSR was called in to deal with the situation.

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[–] overninethousand 10 years ago

Not quite, they invaded to kill Amin (in the most treacherous move).

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[–] slay-er 10 years ago

Because official Afghan government made up to 20 requests to the USSR to help them fighting terrorists. Many years later USA fought the same people USSR fought basically supporting that USSR was correct.

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[–] jdemech02 9 years ago

I often ask of this question which is a very good one. I suspect that Russia had been worried about their border lines along the Muslim countries since the 1970's periods of unrest in the form of terrorism. Russia was going back to the same post WWII ways by controlling their borders surrounding Mother Russia. Only this time it is out of Muslim concerns. Afghanistan is hellish place & troublesome country for others. It remains still in ancient times.

Imre Demech

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