MovieChat Forums > September (1987) Discussion > Will we ever see the original 'September...

Will we ever see the original 'September'?

posted 18 years ago by njfilm
15 replies | jump to latest

Probably not. I do know the whole film was complete (or near complete) when Woody shut down, fired most of the cast and rewrote. I remember Maureen O'Sullivan was playing the part of the mother (the Stritch part) and Sam Shepard was playing the Waterston part. I'm not sure but I thought Diane Keaton was playing the Dianne Wiest part. Apparently there were brutal fights between Allen & Shephard (as there were later between Allen & Sean Penn). Woody felt the chemistry was wrong between the actors and scrapped the whole thing.
Still the un-sung Elaine certainly deseved an Oscar for this. Instead-- not even a nomination!

[–] thatsweetbird 18 years ago

What were the "brutal fights" between Shepherd/Allen and Penn/Allen about? How could an actor be arguing with a director like Allen.

I'm not surprised that Allen would lose Shepherd in that case. My sense is that Woody likes to cast people he thinks are just plain talented enough to handle the parts with minimal direction on acting from him. But I think that if he does give direction he expects it to be followed. He sees it(quite rightly)ultimately as his story, his work.

[–] Cafe_Dreamco 18 years ago

I don't think there were brutal fights. Shepherd later claimed that Allen had "no understanding of actors whatsoever" and that "Allen knows even less (about acting) than Altman, which is nothing". Given Allen's usual coolness towards his performers, my guess is there wasn't much on-set hostility. Regardless, I haven't seen any evidence suggesting that there was. As for the latter case, Sean Penn claimed that Woody was the best director he ever worked for. The only thing that comes close to a brutal fight, was Allen telling Penn that everything he did in one take was wrong. But that's a standard Woody Allen criticism from what I've read.

[–] thatsweetbird 18 years ago

I can see the comparison by Shepherd of Allen with Altman. I think both like a cast they are confident enough in to let them do some ad-libbing. You can't direct people on how to ad-lib. That wouldn't be ad-libbing.

And like a director who can't tell you "how to act", Woody may simply just know what he wants or doesn't want. So he is either able to tell the actor that it was "great" or "all wrong" as he apparently did to Penn about that one scene.

[–] tnilfo 18 years ago

In Stig Bjorkman's "Woody Allen on Woody Allen", Allen claims that he replaced Shepherd because Shepherd was too "sexy" for the part while Waterston was "plain" enough to play it. I wish he had kept Shepherd; Waterson certainly is plain, and in fact his character is dull and lifeless. How could Mia Farrow and Diane Weist fall for such a wet loaf of bread? I think Shepherd would have brought a more potent chemistry into the movie, which I think could use a little more vitality.

Allen also said he destroyed the original cut: "It's gone." So we won't be seeing it.

[–] thatsweetbird 18 years ago

Didn't he play a similar role in that movie with Keaton, Spacek and Lange? Think it was "Crimes of the Heart" or something.

Well, Woody likes Waterston in general. He used him before and I think afterward.

Some of the "dullness" may be attributive to the stagey(albeit intentionally)quality of the film.

[–] chadmiller7236 18 years ago

Actually, he originally hired christopher walken for the part but felt he was too sexy, too ruggedly appealing, then he hired shepard who apparently had no interest in acting and did it only to support the writing of his play's. So after it was filmed and woody realized he wanted to scrap the whole thing and re film the entire piece, he changed a few of the actor's who he felt he had either miscast or who didn't perform well enough. However according to Woody, because of Shepard disinterest in acting, he didn't want to ask shepard to refilm the entire picture.

[–] tnilfo 18 years ago

Er, yes, that's the correct version. I had forgotten that it was Christopher Walken who was too sexy, and not Sam Shepard.

[–] dflores-9 18 years ago

Psh.. there were no brutal fights.. Allen usually puts about 4 weeks of reshoots into his budget.. like Lucas, he likes to film some, then edit, and after editing decide what he needs to finish the film. This time he decided that he had miscast several roles, for which he takes the blame.. he says the actors were all good, he just realized they weren't what he really wanted.. and so when he reshot, he just did a lot of scenes from scratch with new actors.. if there was any real fighting, Allen wouldn't have put up with it.. and I doubt that's very possible anyway, since he says himself he doesn't interact with actors much.. he says he tries to cast people he trusts, and then let them work.

As for Sean Penn.. Read "Woody Allen on Woody Allen" Revised edition-- Allen praises Penn as one of the best actors he's ever worked with, saying he didn't even film coverage on specific scenes because he liked Penn's performance so much that he decided to do the scenes in a one-shot. He also specifically says that he was worried beforehand because Penn has a reputation for being difficult, but that once he started shooting with him, there wasn't a problem. There were no fights!

As for ever seeing the original version of September, I would say no chance.. aside from the fact that we know it was filmed but we have no idea to what degree it was edited and completed, Allen says in the same book in reference to deleted scenes, that he doesn't save anything for the future or for DVD's, and that when he takes out a scene, it's gone. Which made me really sad because he was talking about 2 musical numbers in "Everyone Says I Love You" that were aparently filmed but cut, that he says don't exist anymore.. ah well.

[–] Leave_it_to_Weaver 17 years ago

Christopher Walken sexy?! Am i missing something? Creepy? yes! Sexy? not so much. Apples and oranges i guess.

[–] ShellOilJunior 17 years ago

I agree with the "wet bread" take on Waterston. He comes off as too soft, too sappy and ultimately it's hard to feel for him.

[–] suckerdwsp316 16 years ago

Does the original version of "September" even exist?

Seriously, does Woody Allen or the studio or anybody have a copy of it anywhere in this universe, or was it destroyed or just lost and forgotten?

[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] sfgiants27 15 years ago

My guess, sexy is to mean appealing or likable. Not so much bomb shell type sexy. The use of the word sexy, I imagine is some sort of Hollywood lingo for what we would just say, not dull and awkward enough.

[–] LuciaJoyce 10 years ago

Should've seen Walker in "Pennies From Heaven." Such a hoofer! With a big heart tattooed on his chest!

He was also very pretty in "Next Stop, Greenwich Village."

--
I should warn you -- he's a Fourierist.

[–] FilmNoirOnline 14 years ago

The original film is gone.

Also, Sam Shepard and Woody have the same story on what happened with Sam Shepard being replaced. Shepard was not "fired." When Woody decided to scrap the whole of the shoot (and shoot again), Shepard was already obligated to begin filming 'Baby Boom' and was unavailable for a complete re-shoot. Woody has stressed this several times - including in the interview/documentary, "Woody Allen: A Life In Film."