MovieChat Forums > Roxanne (1987) Discussion > I've got to stop watching this film!

I've got to stop watching this film!

posted 21 years ago by llltdesq
19 replies | jump to latest

This is a charming little film, with some good things going for it, but I've got to quit watching it, which I do every so often, because the ending is almost pure Hollywood. Real life seldom works this way. It's been said that it's about seeing inner beauty and, to be fair, that is the intended message. But the reality of life is summed up by a line Chris says to Charlie: "She wants somebody that looks like me and talks like you." If ever you get the opportunity, before a future life, to choose between looks or intelligence, if you can't have both, pick looks; your life will be decidedly more enjoyable in many regards. Humans are driven by biology and pleasant features find the way to most hearts faster than gray matter does, in most cases anyway. The Roxannes of the world (the Dixies too, for that matter) rarely fall for the Charlies because they seldom have to, there being a sufficiency of reasonably good looking intelligent men. Frogs rarely get the princess outside of fairy tales. Take it from this life-long resident of a lilypad. I'm 43, of average appearance and disabled. The type of woman I could be happy with (intelligent, well-spoken and with a moderately warped sense of humor <think The Far Side, with a touch of Gahan Wilson>) has far more appealing options than me easily attainable. My apologies for this post; I'm feelng a bit sorry for myself tonight, as I just watched this again. I doubt anyone will read this here anyway and it's a good way to bleed some of the frustration I feel off some place, any place. You want the truth of it, though, watch The Hunchback of Notre Dame, even if Hollywood always changes the book's ending. The one thing they don't alter is that Quasimodo bites the dust in the end. He doesn't ever get the girl. That's life, kids. No hearts and flowers. But, on the off chance anyone does see this, do me a favor: should you ever see anyone who is "different"-before you make a comment to them or about them, ask yourself how you'd feel if you were on the hearing end of your remarks. Words hurt more than blows do and their effects heal more slowly and last longer. That too is a message inherent in this film.

Robert Reynolds
Tucson AZ

All women are beautiful; some are just more beautiful than others.

A paraphrase of something Robert A. Heinlein wrote in Time Enough For Love contained within The Notebooks of Lazarus Long.

[–] pails 21 years ago

A very eloquent read... I can't imagine there isn't a Roxanne out there for a Cyrano such as yourself.

[–] llltdesq 21 years ago

Thank you for the kind words, both for my little screed and for calling the humble undersigned "Cyrano". The compliment is appreciated. I hope you're right and I find someone. But if I had a dime for every time a female friend or acquaintance said I was sweet, or a great catch (even though she wasn't interested in doing the catching) and that someday I'd find "my soul-mate", I'd be able to buy Warren Buffett out of petty cash and Bill Gates would be shining my Bentley. Now that would be something the freecoders would pay money to see!

Thanks again for your kindness. May all be well with you and those you hold dear.

Robert Reynolds
Tucson AZ

[–] grayghost74 21 years ago

I don't know. To me, the lesson of the story is you gotta convince the woman that you are worthy of her love. Ugly. Beautiful. Perhaps it doesn't matter. Remember the line from ?Sandy? the bartender to Chris, "I think when a person finds another person interesting, that person becomes interesting to the other person." Really though, in this film I get carried away with how comfortable CD is with himself. How much passion he has in life. We all have our 'big nose,' our shortcomings. People either become mired in them or react positively like CD. I saw this film when I was 14 years old and when I look back to the movie characters I feel inspired me, it hearkens back to CD. He really leads a full life. He has friends, a great place to live, an important job, and can express himself wonderfully in words.

[–] llltdesq 21 years ago

There are a good many points in your post I agree with, such as the generally positive nature of CD most of the time. But I am not certain I understand the nature and intent of your statement that "you gotta convince the woman you are worthy of her love." I've seen entirely too many cases where the opposite is true-a guy proves to be totally unworthy of anything but perhaps selection as a Poster Child for retroactive Birth Control and women keep crawling back to them anyway (I've seen the same thing in reverse, with men doing the crawling, BTW) and it seems to me that worthiness has precious little to do with success or failure here. Besides, CD is arguably the most likable character in the movie. My favorite scene (well, second favorite, after the heckler in the bar) is with CD and the kid on the roof. If he's not "worthy" by that alone, he never will be.

Sorry if this seems a bit waspish, but I just got back from visiting family and had a kidlet (college-age) stare at me with a look on her face that was obviously "OMG, what's wrong with him?" as I was buying books at her workplace and it bugged me more than it usually does. I should be used to it by now, but I guess I'm not. Good fortune to you and may all be well with you and all you hold dear.

Robert Reynolds
Tucson AZ

[–] grayghost74 21 years ago

Yeah, that's a nice little scene on the rooftop. "Let's just sit here.." was a great moment. Technically, I wonder if there was a trick on how he got to the rooftop so quick.

On the 'ladies' note, it seems sometimes they need convincing in the sense they usually have loads of guys coming at them that they are naturally defensive. So we have to be a good salesman so that they let us in the door, so to speak. Like CD, we just can't let them come to us for no reason, we have to let them know we hold life passionatly. I will concede looks go a long way but really all people are beautiful, only some are more so. It's always a tough game to score.

Another favorite scene is when Dixie tells the joke with the message over the bottle of wine. Nice moment for Shelly Duval. I also like the part where CD is counting down and smells the fire somewhere. That's a nice shot where they all mystically line up outside the fire station.

garret

[–] 21 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Arnementia815 21 years ago

I agree that life is almost never like the movies. But I don't think looks is everything. Most of my boyfriends have been the well lesser attractive in school. It's not because I'm settling. It's because kindness and humor goes a long way with me. If a guy picks up a pencil that rolls off my desk and tells a joke I'm instantly blind to his appearance. And I know plenty of girls like that. I just saw this movie last night, it was adorable. I love the scene with Charlie on the roof with the boy. So cute. What I wonder though, is would this movie work in reverse? Would it be as charming if the girl had the big nose and Charlie was the hottie? The sad thing is, I don't think it would.

[–] Servant_of_Dagon 21 years ago

Sadly enough, you're right. And though I'm aware this is a "Roxanne"-forum, I must use another film to prove my/our point.

I've never seen "She's All That", but it's basic premise is enough to make me puke. Hottie Freddie Prinze, Jr. must turn nerdy chick Rachael Leigh Cook into a hottie of equal or greater hotness before the prom on a wager.

Wait a minute, wait a minute! Rachael Leigh Cook an unnatractive nerd? She's basically a teen model with some glasses slapped on! I'll buy that the Prinze character is supposed to be a superficial jerk, but the filmmakers couldn't actually cast someone of less-than-Hollywoodian attractiveness for the Cooke part? Hollywood is run by men, and most of the time it produces for men. Now I'll admit I don't know how the film turns out and maybe, just maybe, the ending is an appropriate one (ie, Freddie has his spine ripped out and Rachael returns to her old look, leading a happy life and eventually finding someone who can see beyond um... well, basically, just a pair of glasses), but I don't think so.

Would "Roxanne" have worked the other way around? Well, for me it would have, and I suspect for a surprisingly high amount of people it would have too. But the sad truth is, Hollywood would never give us such a story. They want to keep the males aged 15-35 content and secure in their manhood by serving dreck like "xXx" and "The Fast and The Furious".

And for some reason, for "Roxanne" in reverse, I picture Joan Cusack and Brad Pitt. :)

"One easily prefers blisters on his feet over arrows in his arse." -- Boulders

[–] Bodmer 20 years ago

For one thing, Hollywood didn't make this film up. Edmond Rostand, a French Romantic-revivalist playwright did. Rostand wrote Cyrano De Bergerac, the play that the Martin flick was based on.The play is about a 17th century Parisian guardsman that falls in love with his cousin, Roxanne, who loves Christian, a handsome buffoon in Cyrano's squadron. Cyrano De Bergerac is one of the best pieces of literature that I have read, and has anything but a "Hollywood ending". It's not so much that the producers of Roxanne are mysoginists, but they wanted to make something sort of based on the original play.
To simply write off a story of unrequited love centering on a physically unnatractive man and a beautiful woman as "typical" is a bit unfair. Anyone that has experienced unrequited love can tell you that it sucks. A lot. This is why so many people write and make movies about it. Most of the time, they don't really have anything to say; they just want to get something off of their chest, and that usually ends up in the same story that we're seen played out on stage, screen, and books countless times. Once in a while, though, you end up with something like Cyrano de Bergerac: a whimsical and romantic backdrop, but a very real, and a very bittersweet picture of love. Cyrano is an idealist that is more in love with the idea of love itself than he is with Roxanne, so much so that he even helps Christian win her hand.
The ending of Cyrano De Bergerac is perhaps the most famous part.Almost every romantic comedy and romantic tragedy on film in the 20th century borrowed something from Edmond Rostand's play. This is almost unfortunate, as the climax of the play and Cyrano's speeches will show, they forgot to borrow the wrong things.

[–] Arnementia815 20 years ago

Ha, you're exactly right and that's exactly what I meant. Now don't get me wrong I love the idea of Cyrano/Roxanne. And I love the play and the movie. But my point just was that Hollywood will never make the reverse. Think of any movie that is supossedly the reverse (ugly girl with a hot guy).

She's all that was a perfect example. They have to make her beautiful (not that she was horrendous in the beginning) before she can be with Freddie Prinze Jr.

My Big Fat Greek Wedding, Never Been Kissed, even My Fair Lady. A handsome man can never, ever fall for a plain girl. It doesn't work like that in hollywood.

The only movie that ever comes close (now that I think of it) is Bridget Jone's Diary. She isn't ugly, but she's supossed to be a bit plain and a bit chubby (not that 130 pounds is fat...but to hollywood I guess it is). I like that in the end of that movie, Bridget looks exactly the same and still gets her Mr. Darcy. We'll give credit to that movie. Perhaps that's why it's one of my favorites.

But I think every woman would pay double to see a movie where Brad Pitt falls for Joan Cusak. hehe.

[–] 20 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Arnementia815 20 years ago

probably, i don't know. he's great in it though.

[–] 20 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 20 years ago

[deleted]

[–] contemporarydog 20 years ago

I'm not so sure about that, Robert. In real life I've often found that the blokes who are the biggest hits with women aren't the 'typically good looking' ones. I know blokes who are right nerds who seem to bed stacks of women. On the other hand i know others who are good looking and get nowhere.

I think a steady/good career, a good sense of humour and seeming you actualy care about the woman are all-important.

I actually think the film is more realistic than most. In real life Chris's character would turn out to be gay, while CD would be the one who got all the women with his hugely amusing wit. In fact IRL he wouldn't still be single at the age that he is.

This might not work the other way round forever - I think that men do tend to go more solely for looks, and would choose the sunning woman with no personality over the ugly one with a great personality (most of the time).

Of course, an ugly man without the sort of wit and charm that CD demonstrates would do a lot worse.

[–] ijonesiii 18 years ago

There is no need to apologize for this post...it is geniuis and it is very accurate for the most part.

[–] TheFatDruidofNacyl 14 years ago

I know what your talking about.

I have a hard time talking to women that would look like Roxanne in person because of how I look. I talk to lots of women online and I can write things that would put Charlie to shame. What ends up happening is either the women changes her mind when she sees what I look like in person, or if they know what I look like, they enjoy talking to me and tell me how great of a guy I am but will not want to date me. The same women will then complain to me about how bad the men they do go out with treat them.

[–] acet18 10 years ago

Think the point of this movie was not about looks, but how he made her feel through words. And it's true in reality.
I seem to have a Chris type of situation. I seem to attract woman, but as soon as I open my mouth and get in a conversation with them they seem to lose interest. I'm a bit awkward with conversations.
I think confidence is a major issue and maybe the Op is lacking in that as well. Also the op comes across as very nice person and find in my own experience that being overly nice can be a turn off as well.

[–] TotheWatersandtheWild 10 years ago

Personally I couldn't quit watching it. It's got a hopeful charm to it. It comes around every so often, usually late at night, and it's a nice surprise to see it again.
But I disagree with them being mismatched in any fashion. Intellect, uniqueness, excited by the unusual and authentic. Plus I think they're both stunning. Charlie's attractive. He's got an unconventional nose. So what. It sticks out. So do brash egos.
What Chris says, "She wants someone who looks like me and talks like you" - I don't even buy that. It's from Chris' point of view. It's what he thinks she wants. He couldn't even fathom what she wants or what really moves her.

“Most neuroses and some psychoses can be traced to the unnecessary and unhealthy habit of daily wallowing in the troubles and sins of five billion strangers.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land

~
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering