MovieChat Forums > The Believers (1987) Discussion > Twisted view of santeria

Twisted view of santeria


Having worked for one of the women in this film, I was surprised and disappointed upon viewing this. What she mentioned about this film and what I saw onscreen didn't match at all. My take on her performance (weak) and she herself (narcissistic) was that she enjoyed name-dropping about the other stars. I won't name names, but she was very a difficult person. Basically, it was an internship from hell and I knew for a fact she was a santeria practitioner. Why she would be interested in such a stereotypical portrayal of one of the world's oldest religions is an insult to the practice itself. There is no way a true believer would even be involved in the sacrifice of a human being. This movie is a cartoon and I can't believe Martin Sheen and Schlesinger chose to waste their time with this mindless, cliched horror. The money must have been good. This film is a waste. To date, this is the only major film that woman was in. The way she spoke about her role made her seem like the Oscar was on its way in the mail. This film is weak. The fact that she's in it makes it even weaker. A waste, not even worth a rental. If you want to see good voodoo, rent "The Devil's Hand." If you want to read more about the real life of a santeria practitioner, buy "My Life with The Spirits: A Living Guide to Santeria" by Maria Morteno-Vega.

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Carla Pinza?

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I have not seen the movie. But, I can tell you that Santeria deaths are real. I work in the courts of the Bronx, New York. I am currently dealing with a case where death was the consequence of a ritual, and the ritual was meant to cleanse. Santeria believers believe that death is caused by the gods, not by them, no matter how they died. This is not an isolated case. But one of several i have had to work on.
I am going to watch it as part of research to see if it helps to understand it, or if it confuses me even more.

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I've been practicing Santeria for over 10 years and have been a crowned Santera for 7 of those years. I've performed many cleansing rituals and had many performed on myself and NEVER has anything resulted in harm to myself or to another person. This idea that you are trying to pass off is positively ludicrous and if anything like this did happen, you can attribute that to the careless person behind the ritual, not an ancient faith that you clearly have little to no understanding of. (Babe, if you are looking to "The Believers" to help you further understand our religious customs then you quite obviously know NOTHING about Orisha worship.)

We do not in ANY way, shape, or form practice human sacrifice.

Baba mi Ogun modupue

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I agree with you completely boriquangel. The only thing this movie does is create negative stereotypical fears in an audience who has no exposure to our beautiful religion.

There is alot of wonderful information out there about the religion yet people still seem to gravitate to that which makes it taboo. The truth is santeria is accessible to all and its roots are embedded in something of pure love and light.

As for the person who is working on a court case. A good reference point would be something from a non-biased educational perspective. I have often wondered about this specific court situation during ritual after watching the exorcism of emily rose and if events similar to the exorcism has resulted in the loss of some in our faith because it is a common ritualistic practice to cleanse someone.
There are plenty of anthropology books on the study of the lukumi faith that can describe the practice. Dont turn to this peace of garbage movie to educate you. It is misleading and wrong.


hekua jeri hey yansa

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Okay, I see a few things are getting misrepresented here(sigh). Boriquangel, are you saying you have seen a case or cases in the Bronx where Santeria practitioners are sacrificing humans(I find that extremely difficult to believe) . If you are talking about a horrible accident that occured when someone doing a cleansing ritual(that, technically, isn't Santeria) involving dousing the client in Kolonias or Florida Water(with a high alcohol content) was doing their spiritual work too close to lit candles(terribly irresponsible), that is an entirely different matter than human sacrifice and it is a cruel muddying of the water to call one similiar to the other.

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Okay, I see a few things are getting misrepresented here(sigh). Boriquangel, are you saying you have seen a case or cases in the Bronx where Santeria practitioners are sacrificing humans(I find that extremely difficult to believe) . If you are talking about a horrible accident that occured when someone doing a cleansing ritual(that, technically, isn't Santeria) involving dousing the client in Kolonias or Florida Water(with a high alcohol content) was doing their spiritual work too close to lit candles(terribly irresponsible), that is an entirely different matter than human sacrifice and it is a cruel muddying of the water to call one similiar to the other.

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[deleted]

but u do animal sacrifice dont you
i remember a some years ago when an american supreme court upheld the right to perform such practices, that it was a part of relegious freedom.
to celebrate, practitioners of sangria slit the throats of over 140 innocent animals.
i think there is no destinction between harming humans and animals, both living thinking feeling creatures, allthoug animals do not have the abbility to speak their mind, and have little to protect their right to life, i dont think that would be the case if they could vote.
no. instead they are doomed to suffer under those whom feel they have the right to deliver pain and death upon them,just because they can, to my mind there is no difference between those who are arbitreraly cruel to animals and those whom operate under the guise of practesing their religion, beleifs or wathever
why dont you people just sacrifice each other, what a great idea, im sure the gods would be dead chuffed to get someone who actually wanted to die for the cause.

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I mean absolutely NO harm to you or what you have said but in my opinion, unless you are able to understand all viewpoints, your opinions are completely one-sided. I too felt the way you did until i was brought more into the religion
To me, you speak with pure ignorance, these animals are not sacrificed brutally as you say and btw, its not like they grab 30 dogs and do waht they wish with them,
Before you start spitting out hate, you should view all sides of the story

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Well since I came into the Religion a leather wearing non-vegetarian, the conflicts were probably not AS great as perhaps for some other people. Having spent years on a farm certainly did color my individual outlook on this issue as well.

The most famous case of which you speak did not occur in an animal slaughtering vaccuum with Santeria practitioners making up for the oversight. In the same community were they were being hassled, Jewish people were enjoying kosher freshly slaughtered meat, as allowed by the city's ordinances. If such were being adhered to, then Santeria practitioners should be able to ritually sacrifice animals as well.

And the thinking feeling living wolf doesn't seem to have nearly all these hangups when going after its prey.

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Much like 'The Serpent & the Rainbow', the book 'The Believers' was loosely based on was better than the movie. 'The Serpent & the Rainbow' was a biographical account by Wade Davis, whereas 'The Religion' by Nicholas Conde was written as a cheap horror novel.

Bring me the priest. - Jean Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

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is The Believers and The Religion the same book but just had the titled changed when the film came out? I ordered The Religion by Nicholas Conde, but half.com also had The Believers by Nicholas Conde, talk about confusing.

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Wait a sec. It was based on a real Santeria based cult that happened in NY in the 80s.

Check out Adolfo Constanzo & Sara Aldrete, the leaders of the cult, which did practice human sacrifice among other things. Not to say that all Santeria is like that but it's just like when David Koresh claimed to be the return of Jesus, you have to acknowledge the Christian influences on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolfo_Constanzo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Aldrete

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Wait a sec...

Adolfo and Sara did their grisly deeds in Mexico not NYC.

They were practicing a perverted form of Palo Mayombe not Santeria

Borderland deals with all this better than The Believers.

Palo Mayombe can be practiced with no need to murder anyone.

It simply ain't required.

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This film is a total whack job, playing on most Americans' ignorance of African and Afro-Caribbean religions, and on racism and hypocrisy.

For example, the film refuses to translate Carmen's prayers when she's protecting/cleansing Martin Sheen's kid, therefore building up all kinds of fear that she's one of those "scary" cultists. What's she saying? She's saying, "Please God, free this child of harm."

Meanwhile, the Catholic religion, in which, might I remind you, people believe that they are actually, literally drinking the *blood* and *eating the body* of Christ, is portrayed as enlightened and good. Explain how Catholicism is any less superstitious than Santeria?

And then we have this gem of a comment: "to celebrate, practitioners of sangria slit the throats of over 140 innocent animals."

Excuse me, but how many innocent animals have had their throats slit every single day in this country for our hamburgers at birthday parties, our roast beef at family celebrations, our hot dogs at barbecues? I'll give you a hint -- it's a hell of a lot more than one hundred and forty. And they're killed much less humanely, too.

I'm not actually a vegetarian, but unlike some, I don't pretend that it's possible to eat meat without first having a dead animal. Nor do I believe, as you seem to, that somehow it's okay to kill an animal in order to sell it and eat it (and first injecting it with growth hormones and all kinds of other nasty stuff) but somehow not okay to kill it as part of a superstitious and antiquated ritual.


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Oh, and one more thing:

"to celebrate, practitioners of sangria slit the throats of over 140 innocent animals."


That's rich. That's just classic -- um, SANGRIA is a Spanish drink mixing red wine with fruit and fruit juices. Yummy.

SANTERIA is the African-originated religion practiced in Puerto Rico, Cuba, and other parts of the Spanish-colonized Caribbean.

Your ignorance knows no bounds ...

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"I'm not actually a vegetarian, but unlike some, I don't pretend that it's possible to eat meat without first having a dead animal. Nor do I believe, as you seem to, that somehow it's okay to kill an animal in order to sell it and eat it (and first injecting it with growth hormones and all kinds of other nasty stuff) but somehow not okay to kill it as part of a superstitious and antiquated ritual."

Just for the record, this person never indicated that they think it's okay to kill animals to sell or eat them. I would bet they don't. If someone values the lives of animals as much as those of humans as they DID claim, then they probably view all meat-eaters as the moral equivalents of mass murderers.

Personally, I have no problem with killing animals for food or for religious sacrifices (provided the killing is done in a reasonably humane manner at least, though a hardcore animal rights activist would consider this a contradiction in terms). I do find it annoying when I encounter the occasional person who both eats meat and acts indignant about the actual act of killing animals. I used to have a friend who thought this way, but I ate him.

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Meanwhile, the Catholic religion, in which, might I remind you, people believe that they are actually, literally drinking the *blood* and *eating the body* of Christ, is portrayed as enlightened and good. Explain how Catholicism is any less superstitious than Santeria?

You need to investigate Catholic theology a lot further. Yes, Catholics most definitely believe (or should believe, if they know their religion) that they are eating the very (glorified) Body, (glorified) Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ when they receive the Eucharist, but these are received under the accidents of bread and wine. Catholics are (or should be) fully aware they're not consuming plasma, corpuscles, muscle tissue, etc. They know that the accidents of the bread and wine are bread and wine, that they can mold and rot, etc., that if you were to slice into the bread, it'd cause no one physical pain, and so forth. But what appear to be bread and wine -- the accidents of bread and wine -- are in substance God.

Also, while I'm at it, Catholics also do not believe they are "re-sacrificing Christ," as some Protestants misunderstand. They believe that the "once and for all time" Crucifixion is being re-presented at the Mass, as Christ commanded to be done when He said "do this in memory of Me." In other words, at the Mass, Catholics are at the foot of the Cross the same, in essence, as if they'd been there 2,000 years ago.

You (the generic "you") have to know something about Plato and Aristotle to "get" Catholic teaching on all this if you can't take it on faith or just be respectful enough to accept that what Catholics say they believe is what they truly believe.

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I'm Roman Catholic from birth. I have NEVER subscribed to the theory of EATING anyone's body and blood. I don't care if it's make believe, accidents (what the hell does accidents mean anyway?)

The bible indicates that Christ said "Take this and eat for this is my body, etc."

Really? Who says these things.

It's all man made nonsense.

Not saying I don't believe in Supreme Being. I just don't belive that the Supreme Being actually requires us to eat his body and drink his blood.

Keep saying this to yourself and you'll realize how absolutely mind boggling this is.

No one questions this. I went to Catholic School all my life. I always questioned all of this

Don't want to step on anyone's toes but it is a bit much to take.

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Well, that's Catholic teaching -- not just doctrine, but dogma. If you don't believe in Catholic dogma, you're not a Catholic. Go grab a catechism and you'll get an answer to your question "who says these things?" Go read John 6 to see that Christ Himself said these things. Don't like it? Then you're not Catholic, no matter how many years you went to Catholic school.

See also: http://www.fisheaters.com/mass.html

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I was born and baptized and went to parochial schools all my life with horrible nuns who beat us and slapped us into submission. We also had a priest teach us a course titled RELIGION. I remember asking him 'what about other countries and cultures, what about what THEY believe?" His reply was "You are not allowed to question the teachings of the Catholic Church".

Oh really???. Don't give me dogma and doctrine. The Catholic Church didn't even come into being until over 200 years after Jesus Christ died.

And priests, popes, bishops, etc. used to be allowed to marry. Why did it stop? Because they left their money and estates to their wives. The Catholic Church put a stop to that now didn't they? The Bible was written by men. There are so many things in the bible that have to be questioned. There is a paragraph in the bible that indicates that one sister said to another sister "Go and lay with our father so thee can become pregnant".

I've read the bible. And explain this to be. In Genesis when Cain kills Able and God puts the mark of Cain on his forehead so no one can bother him or kiil him, and then Cain went into the Land of Nod, where he knew his WIFE.

If Adam and Eve were the first two people on the planet, and had Cain and Able, and Cain killed Able (I know they had other children), but Cain went into the Land of Nod where he got married, who the heck was in the Land of Nod (if Adam and Eve were the first people on the planet). I once asked a priest this question. He had no answer.

And I once asked my own doctor the following question.

"Do you think the concept of religion and the belief in an invisible deity, well could it be that this was created as a coping mechanism to help people deal with stress, sickness, terminal illnesses and ultimately death?"

My doctor looked me square in the face and said 'YOU GOT THAT RIGHT'.

I like to question stuff. I just don't blindly accept everything I am told.

Just my humble opinion.

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Beaten and slapped into submission by nuns? Now I know you're lying. And you most definitely know nothing about what the Church teaches. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is online. You can read it here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

Priests and Bishops were allowed to marry, but were expected to remain sexually continent afterward because they offer the Sacrifice daily. Hence the Western Church's insistence on celibacy itself in addition to sexual continence, the "apostolic way of perfection."

Adam and Eve had other children aside from Cain and Abel. That's the source of the other people.

Look, if you don't believe in what the Church teaches, that's up to you, but don't lie about it.

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My dear tracytucciarone:

I have absolutely no reason to lie. This was over 50 years ago by the way. I don't know how old you are but believe me, the parochial schools of 50 years ago were rampant with physical abuse. Nuns used to carry these big wooden paddles and on it was written THE BOARD OF EDUCATION. I will never forget that. One doesn't forget these things. I saw boys routinely getting hit on their rears with these things.

And forget about what happened in non-coed schools (specifically boy's schools).

Priests used to get their jollies from physically and sexually abusing young boys.

And thank goodness, this is a free country where I am allowed to think what I want to think, speak what I want to speak and feel like I want to feel.

I just don't randomly believe everything that I am told.

And as you put it, Adam and Eve had other children, so Cain obviously had a sister in the land of Nod so he married his sister?

There can't be any other explanation right?

So you believe what you wish to believe and I shall believe what I see, feel, and hear. To me, it's logical. There is only logic.

Makes perfect sense to me.

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You've blatantly lied about what the Church teaches, and I put up a link to the Catechism to prove it.

"Priests used to get their jollies physically and sexually abusing young boys"? Sure. Uh-huh. Each and every one, right? Read this and learn: http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-215_162-1933687.html

I'm Italian American, from a family that is all Catholic and that's been Catholic for probably two thousand years. None of what you say is so.

Yes, Cain married a sister, obviously. Before random mutations kicked in after the Fall, it wouldn't have been dangerous.

You can have the last word; I'm done with you.

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My dear, I am also Italian American. And how can you possibly say what I said is untrue. Of course these things happen in the world.

Let this be the last of our communications. There is no reason to be so hostile. You have your opinions and I have mine.

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What's more Costanzo's cult wasn't uncovered until after this movie came out. The movie was not based on them.

Anyway, though the movie contained lots of stuff about Santería and its rituals, it did not seem to imply that the child-sacrifice cult was part of this. Its leader was supposedly practicing some unnamed Sudanese religion (interestingly the captioning identified him as "Palo" which might have been an oblique reference to Palo Mayombe).

Certainly the characters in the movie initially believe the rituals are tied in with Santería somehow, and many less than astute viewers likely left with that notion, but at best all that it was shown was that there were some overlapping traditions (which presumably would be due to the African contributions to Santería).


I don't know the language that the evil priest was speaking (or even whether it was a language at all). I don't recall it being stated what his ethnicity/tribe was or really anything at all, and I'm sure that the religion was essentially a made up one. Avoiding any explicit mention of his actual ethnic/religious background might have been deliberate. He came from the distant land of Foreignia and spoke Foreign while performing Foreignese rituals (maybe someone did ).

As Comolaflores said, the movie did capitalize on most people's (including my own) ignorance about African cultures and religions. That's unfortunate, but avoiding mention of the actual supposed origin is a better solution of made up rituals is a better solution than falsely attributing them to an actual religion like Santería (which they actually did seem to deliberately avoid in this film).

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I think the actress participated in this film, because it has a message against the prejudice surrounding the practice of Santeria. The twist being nobody would suspect someone who is White being involved in Santeria.

It also did a great job of showing how much prejudice Santeria followers face in general. I'll admit the whole thing, with the Black guy dancing while wearing white contact lenses was really hokey. Aside from that the movie says a lot about not only religous prejudice, but racial prejudice as well.

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I just saw this film on Chiller and it was excellent. Some people might be offended but its only a movie. I enjoyed it. Its amazing to me that there are people out there that actually make sacrifices of any kind to "the gods".

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I may not be remembering all that well - but wasn't the whole "child killing cult" thing kind of popular mythology back then? It was a fear popular at the time - same as the "sex-abuse" at the daycare centers... mass hysteria - founded on urban legend. Playing on the "people fear what they don't understand" theme.

And I clearly remember thinking the maid was protecting them when I originally saw the movie. Knowing nothing about Santeria prior to seeing the film - I never saw it as presented badly. This had about as much to do with the religion of Santeria as Manson had to do with the hippie movement.

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Actually a Phd professor from UCLA published a report that said he found tunnels ,as children reported, under the McMartin daycare center. But thats neither here nor there.
Other than that I am confused as to what you are saying. Even an imbecile knows that organized pedophilia and murder of children exists. Are you saying its an impossibility that child murderers are involved in some kind of bizarre religion?
Certainly there are many documented cases of such a thing to disprove the aspersions you cast.

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Santeria/voodoo/hodoo,it's all the same evil crap black art Lucifer uses as a gateway to your soul.You can't look at a sex orgy where sacrificed goats and chicken mixed with semen is thrown on the participants isn't flat out of the devil.

And let's not forget about human sacrifice too.Which they do as well.Is that part of there religion too.Shame on all the legislators who legalized animal cruelty.They should be the first ones sacrificed.

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