Joseph was a very likeable character throughout most of the film... the scene where he was fired, crying on the bench just makes you wanna hug him.
But then...
He rats everybody out.
Along with many other things in the film (especially the ending), that just broke my heart.
You might want to put posts like this in SPOILER TAGS. You just gave up a major part of the plot. Seriously not nice for people who haven't seen this movie.
Edit your post. :)
They'll get over it. :P
But yes you're right!
I hate spoilers too but I have to ask -- why in the world would you be reading all these notes if you haven't seen the film yet??
There is very little you can write about a movie without spoiling something, so the more sensitive we are to this the more we need to avoid reading ANYTHING beforehand. This is on us, the readers, not the writers.
RMR
Kingston NY
@Cadaver-5: well, people might come here to do some research about a movie before seeing it. That's why this board has spoiler tags! They exist, so use them. :). I agree to you for the most part, but if your post contains nothing but a major plot part... you might as well spoilertag them.
shareI agree. I try to alert people to spoilers in my posts too but I really wish some of the people who constantly complain about spoilers will answer the following questions; one is the same you posed.
1. Why are you here? If you haven't seen a movie, why would you visit that movie's message board? You must realize the subjects and comments will pertain to the movie; the one you haven’t seen.
2. What could you possibly contribute? Any questions you have or comments you make are coming from a place of ignorance; which makes sense because you haven’t seen the movie. That’s very different than someone asking for clarification or commenting about something they’ve seen. So, here's a thought, watch the movie, form an opinion, then come back when you have something worthwhile to say.
Woman, man! That's the way it should be Tarzan. [Tarzan and his mate]
It broke my heart as well. At first I was thinking, "Why didn't he just get revenge on the people who actually hurt him instead of random innocent people?" but I think he only did it out of anger and he may not have understood how serious it was and what he made them go through. Sad endings really do suck.
shareHow do we know he rated them out. How would he know they were Jewish. I just thought he joined them to get cash.
Somebody here has been drinking and I'm sad to say it ain't me - Allan Francis Doyleshare
How do we know he ratted them out? How would he know they were Jewish?
I saw the movie in the theater during its original run and a few years later on video. Amazingly, I forgot how things ended...I was thinking Julien was going to let something slip and give away the school's secret.
Joseph was no saint - after all he was stealing. Even if you rationalize his motives and the severity of the "crime"....it is what it is. However, I was surprised and disappointed that the headmaster couldn't find it in his heart to show some compassion and forgiveness and give Joseph a second chance. After all forgiveness is one of the fundamental tenets of Christianity.
Sadly, by not doing so he unknowingly triggered the tragic events that followed.
This movie just broke my heart - again.
I wasn't as sympathetic to Joseph as some of you were, I found him a somewhat dicey character (beautifully cast) from the beginning, though I felt sorry that the kids teased him so mercilessly. I don't think the priest could afford to give him a "second chance" - this wouldn't be compassion, it would be foolhardiness. This was a life and death situation; the priest was trying to save these childrens' lives. As was illustrated, things could go wrong on a hair. It would be terribly risky to have any activity going on at the school that would potentially draw unwanted attention of the authorities or give them the excuse they needed to imprison the priests or shut the school down.
Not to mention that the school was already short on provisions, Joseph was stealing from the children so he could get laid.
Joseph's actions were pure malice, there's absolutely no reason to think he had no idea of what he was doing, if he didn't, why did he do it? It was his actions, and only his, that "triggered" this heartbreaking tragedy.
The featured review on the front page tells me absolutely nothing about this movie. It was totally pointless. It was not a review at all.
I find that with a lot of the featured reviews. The reviewer could be watching "The Sound of Music" for all I know.
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I was surprised and disappointed that the headmaster couldn't find it in his heart to show some compassion and forgiveness and give Joseph a second chance.I don't understand why you would be surprised and disappointed. The headmaster tried to instill values in these young men. Values he didn't just preach but lived. As we see, he put the boys, the school, and himself at risk to do what's right. There's no way he could overlook what Joseph did and keep him there.
After all forgiveness is one of the fundamental tenets of Christianity.Yes, compassion and forgiveness are important parts of Christianity but so is punishment. It is possible to have compassion for someone and forgive them for what they've done but still feel they should be punished. In his case it wasn't even so much about punishment as it was about removing the temptation. Joseph showed no remorse and gave no indication he would change his ways. It would have been irresponsible and frankly stupid to let him remain in that environment.
Sadly, by not doing so he unknowingly triggered the tragic events that followed.I don't believe this for a minute. Joseph is the type of person who was willing to do anything. He just cared about himself. We can see that when he talks about the preserves. He knows his 'girlfriend' likes preserves but he isn't taking it to her to make her happy; it's to get her 'in the mood' which is for his benefit.
Joseph was no saint - after all he was stealing. Even if you rationalize his motives and the severity of the "crime"....it is what it is.Saints are few and far between, especially in wartime when everyone is poor and hungry and goods are in short supply. I didn't judge him for stealing. I judge him for being an anti-Semite and ratting the school out to the Nazis, but not for stealing. I had liked him and found him sympathetic until he betrayed the school. War and poverty create opportunists. People do what they have to do, especially people who have been shunned by society. People who judge others for petty "crimes", just solely on the grounds that "it's against the law", I have to wonder how they would be if they had been born lower on the social ladder, especially if they lived in such a time as World War II.
I'd like to thank you for illuminating minor details in the film for me. I didn't understand the phone call, and the "real jew" comment does tie things together nicely. Or is it that he went through the papers we see at the end and noticed they didn't have any?
shareIt's a fascinating moment toward the end when Julien and Jean decide not to take cover during the air raid and essentially have the school to themselves. They play boogie-woogie on the piano, take a stroll through the courtyard and then roast chestnuts in the kitchen. And at that particular moment they realize they're not the only ones taking advantage of everyone's absence; suddenly Joseph is there and he's rummaging through drawers. We don't know exactly what he was after in the kitchen, but his furtive behavior suggests something sinister; while Julien and Jean were using the deserted school as a fun-filled playground, Joseph was gathering information he could give to the Gestapo.
I got the impression the kitchen wasn't the only part of the school Joseph rummaged through; director Louis Malle shows Pere Jean stopping his work when he hears the air-raid siren. Could his office have been another stop on Joseph's tour? I can't say for sure, but it's within the realm of possibility.
Francois Negret as he appears in the film La France (20 years after Au Revoir Les Enfants):
http://sd-1.archive-host.com/membres/images/1887206370/Blog_2009/La-Fr ance-Serge-Bozon/FrancoisNegret-LaFrance.jpg
I can't even start to imagine the guilt the guy in which Joseph is based on (if it is indeed based in a real person) must have felt during the rest of his life.
Language! The thing that means stuff.
Lord_X says > I can't even start to imagine the guilt the guy in which Joseph is based on (if it is indeed based in a real person) must have felt during the rest of his life.I think the Joseph character is a composite of all the people who fell right in line with the Nasis and helped them by turning in people and spying on their neighbors. They did these things to settle disputes and to seek revenge. Most of the people who helped the Nazis did absolutely nothing at all.
The priest had no choice because Joseph stole food to make money. He didn't wish to eat.
He was rather like Lucien Lacombe in an earlier Malle film, although Joseph is more convincing as a character and comes across as more intelligent. Joseph shows traces of anti-Semitism but that is not why he rats them out. It was revenge for losing his job, and a more dramatic version of the opportunism that marks his character earlier. Probably he was executed for collaboration later on. Even if he had not been fired, he would have been dangerous to have around.
"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."