Julien's fault? - Au revoir les enfants (1988) Discussion

[–] claredelalune 18 years ago

I think it's at the end of the movie when the Nazi guy comes into the classroom asking for Jean Kippelstien. At first he can't find him and is about to leave. Julien looks back at Jean who is in the back of the classroom, since he thinks Jean is safe since he isn't recognized. The Nazi sees this and goes back to where Jean is and takes him.

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[–] suckerdwsp316 18 years ago

why did julien have to look?! why why why?!!? damn those nazi bastards!!

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[–] RideBMX 18 years ago

I think it was an accident. Although Julien seemed aggresive towards Jean in the begining, it seemed like a curious, new-kid aggression. Julien had reputation at the school and he wanted to show Jean that the others looked up to him. Towards the end, they were becoming friends; ie, the treasure hunt, piano playing, and Julien's mother bringing Jean with them. The look on Julien's face during the last scene suggested that he knew it was an accident to look back towards Jean during the class, and that Julien may have caused the death of Jean.

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[–] becausejesuslives 18 years ago

Yeah, I can't believe he did that...he is so stupid!!!

If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it copy this and make your signature!

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[–] wildgoose419 17 years ago

Because kids do little things that give away their secrets.

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[–] gribfritz2 7 years ago

Julien's eyes were collaborators.

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[–] Liz01219 7 years ago

Putting aside the look, a few people are saying that it was the cook who turned in the boys.

The Nazi came into the classroom with a name.
I can't believe the cook had the names of the 3 boys.
I believe that would have had to have been a secret kept among the priest's only.

If the cook gave up the names, then I guess that means he searched the lockers of the 3 and found books with their real names in it???

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[–] rwp1 18 years ago

Yes, you are right, the cook did snitch that there were Jews hiding at the school. But the Nazi's didn't know which children were the Jews, they only had names. When the Nazi commander walks into the classroom and asks for Jean Kipplestein, Julien realizes that he is here to take Jean Bonnet. When the commander has his back turned, or at least Julien thinks he has his back turned, Julien turns around a looks at Jean Bonnet. This tips off the Nazi commander and they take Jean Bonnet into custody.

I'm actually attempting to write a paper on this topic for a film as literature class. I'm trying to write about whether or not Julien purposefully tried to give away Jean Bonnet's real identity or if it was just an accident. If anyone has any insight or any interesting theories, I'd love to hear them.

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[–] berzelmayr 18 years ago

There is no doubt that it was a accident. I'm not a Louis Malle fan, but I find it pretty offensice to believe something else. Julien had a zero motivation to reveal the identity of his friend to the Gestapo-officer. And they would have found all of the children anyway sooner or later.

- One of Dan Brown's errors: http://home.arcor.de/berzelmayr/st-john.html

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[–] klausfindl 18 years ago

Well, I think Julien didn't look at the other boy intentionally, to reveal his identity, but it's not a pure "accident" either...

In the published script Malle wrote: "Il (Muller) tourne le dos a Julien, qui ne peut s'empecher de regarder vers Bonnet, une fraction de seconde. Muller se retourne, intercepte le regard...." (He (Müller) turns his back to Julien, who CAN'T HELP LOOKING TO BONNET, for a split second. Müller turns around and catches the glance...")
It's a kind of "guiltless becoming guilty" ... An "undisciplined" moment of a child, who can't resist to run into the trap, who has to "act out" instead of hiding this (for him) strange connection he feels to the stigmatized jewish boy, with fatal consequences...

Ironic reference a few scenes later: Müller speaks to the lined-up pupils in the yard: " The discipline is the power of the german soldier. That is what you French are lacking in: discipline...",

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[–] sommerSD 18 years ago

When the Nazi officers had the kids lined up, they were going through role call, trying to determine who does not belong. Jean would have been one of them. Thedy would have fouind out soon after anyways. When they saw the name Jean Bonnet in the role call, they would have checked him because of his first name anyways. Then they would have checcked in the same way tehy suspected Julien might have been a Jew, by having him pull down his pants...back then, circumcisions were not used for the goyem, they were unaware of teh medical benefits of a snip.

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[–] althron64-1 18 years ago

Like, none?

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[–] rosi_anna 18 years ago

Julien struggles to understand why the jews are being persecuted (he's not even sure what one is) so he cannot be blamed for Jean's death just because he inadvertantly looked at him in the classroom. However, many critics see Julien as a representation of France, torn between collaboration and resistance, and by choosing neither, plays a crucial role in the holocaust. Accidentally denouncing Jean highlights the indirect guilt of Julien/France's ignorance and passivity.

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[–] liz_morden 17 years ago

I don't believe there are actually any 'medical benefits' at all, are there?

As far as I'm aware, it's an entirely unnecessary procedure, from a medical point of view (which is why the vast majority of nations do not routinely circumcise their males, other than when it's medically necessary).

Obviously this is way off topic, I just found the comment very strange!

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[–] mrsparky82 18 years ago

Absolutely correct in the way that Bonnet/Kipperstein was caught, however it was in no way intentional for him to be given away in such a manner.
It was an error, so pure in its innocence that it is a theme for the film in its entirity. The children have an innocence throughout the film and act no differently in this microcosmic society than in any other all-boy boarding school outside wartime. War is something that they are totally unaccustomed to and its presence only serves as a background concern for them.
"Une alerte - chouette!" says one when the air raid sirens go off.
Julien Quentin has no real appreciation for the severity of the situation, the scene in the restaurant is testimony to this.
"On n'est pas juifs, non?" - a funny line for us to hear, but at the same time shows his lack of appreciation for the fate that becomes of jewish people caught in occupied France, else he would say no such thing being at a table next to German officers.

He realises his mistake, but can do nothing about it - evidenced by his mournful wave as Bonnet is led from the playground.
At fault, yes. Intentional, not at all.

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[–] chrisiv 18 years ago

Come on THIS IS WAR anyone could have been taken..
Julien was a child absense of malice..
He did not know at that time that they ( bastard nazis) were killing Jews..
He went to a chatholic school in France...
U were taught that Jews killed Christ..
Remember the time..
The cook's asst hated rich French kids, and could not understand why? they would help Jewish boys and not Him.

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[–] daddyd-2 18 years ago

Having just viewed the film again I came to the following conclusion. If Julien had the slightest thought of giving up Jean, he would have told his other friends or even his mother and brother once he learned the truth. But he didn't. He kept Jean's secret and became his friend. The very quick look back from Julien to Jean in the classroom was just curiosity as to what Jean was doing while they were actually searching for him. Basically it was worry for his friend that caused his glance back. Disastrous, yes, on purpose, not for the reasons some might believe. If he knew it would give up his friend, he would have surely kept his eyes forward. Let's not forget the scene when Jean was packing and told Julien not to worry about it because they would have found him anyway. He knew Julien did not look at him to give him away.

It seems to me that Malle lived with this for many, many years and his whole purpose for making the film was as a tribute to his lost friend and all the other jewish people who died during the holocaust. I think this was Malle's way of confessing his part of Jean's death....the look and the fact that the deals he made with Joseph had contributed to the outcome.

It is a beautiful film and one that stays with you once you see it.

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[–] smoothhoney1265 18 years ago

You know, I've seen this film a couple of times and also thought a lot about this. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't really Julien's fault. If you look closely in this scene: He looks at Jean, but just seconds before the German guy notices that. Meaning: The German guy had seen that Julien was looking somewhere but didn't see where. I can only explain it that way: Julien's looking into Jean's direction somehow caused a chain reaction and there must have been more people who looked at Jean at this moment. This lead the German guy to Jean.

My opinion.

cheers,
smooth

Everyone can't be straight. Everyone can't be beautiful. Everyone can't be the same.

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[–] goodfellamatt78 18 years ago

i know they said the cook gave it away, but didn't the nurse give away one of the boys hiding in the infermary?

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[–] smoothhoney1265 18 years ago

Yes, she did. Bitch. But then again she was simply scared of the consequences, I guess, if she didn't give away the boy she might have been transported, too.

Everyone can't be straight. Everyone can't be beautiful. Everyone can't be the same.

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[–] junkogoda 18 years ago

I think an important foreshadowing symbol is the bedwetting. Julien "leaks," but not out of malice or conscious design. Jean Bonnet defends him then, too, just as he reassures him that "they would have gotten me anyway." This also connects to the German discipline theme mentioned above, as well as the theme of hiding one's guilt from oneself and others.

The idea of German discipline is one way that French artists and thinkers have assuaged their guilt. The German officer who seizes the confessing girls is praised by Muller as disciplined. Thus, a lack of discipline can be seen as a refusal to be cruel or inhumane, and Julien's inadvertently betraying glance does come off as human (what kind of robotic kid would NOT look back in concern at his friend). This theme crops up all over the place in French philosophy and literature after WWII.

Anyone in NY, LA, or Boston should go see the re-release of "Army of Shadows"-- a wonderful companion film to Au Revoir Les Enfants. All about betrayal, loyalty, and courage in the French Resistance.

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[–] deeperthanadream 18 years ago

that movie was a bummer, man.
bonnet was my favorite character and he dies. and the priest.
christ.
does anyone know how old these children are supposed to be?

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[–] smoothhoney1265 18 years ago

I guess about 13 or 14. Bonnet is definitely older than Julien.

Everyone can't be straight. Everyone can't be beautiful. Everyone can't be the same.

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[–] jane_dont 17 years ago

They were about to be confirmed, so 12-13.

"Who am I disturbing? It's a coma ward! Don't you want them to wake up?"

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[–] LuciaJoyce 18 years ago

I don't think it's Julien's fault. Like Kippelstein says, they would have caught him anyway.

But why then would Malle put the incriminating look in the film?

I think he's insinuating a kind of innocent complicity.

I imagine, if I were in the same situation, I would look as well. And be just as guilty.

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[–] Twistedsong 18 years ago

I don't think it was really Julien's fault. He may have looked at Jean at the wrong moment, but I think it was an accident. He was propably becoming friends with Jean too, so why would he want him to get caught. And besides, I don't think he or too many other people knew at the time what was done to jews. So, no he didn't look at Jean because he wanted him to die or something like that. In the movie those boys are just so innocent that it's not possible.

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[–] nebodyhome 18 years ago

Au revoir les enfants is biographical. Julian is representitive of Loui Malle. Malle most likely put the look in the film because that is exactly what happened.

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[–] yoshi_1554 18 years ago

I don't understand how the Nazi officer automatically knew that Jean was the one he was looking for, even if Julien did look back at him. That could have been interpreted multiple ways (I'm obviously interpreting it wrong). Why couldn't it have just been a look between friends like, "Wow... this sucks. I hate these freakin' Nazis" or whatever. I'm sorry if I'm not making sense. Just why did the Nazi think 'Ohp, that kid looked at his friend, it MUST mean that that is the person we are looking for.'

It's not like Julien stood up and said "Whew! Good thing those Nazis are gone, or else my Jewish friend over there *points* would be in trouble"

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[–] sandelyon 18 years ago

I've just read a book about what really happened at this school. It appears that the German soldiers knew exactly who were the hidden kids: they had their names, the classes they were in and even their schedules. The nazis went directly to their classrooms, they didn't even check in the others, didn't search through the teachers' stuff. Even now, it doesn't look like people know who's responsible for the denunciation of Père Jacques. There was another Jewish kid who was hidden but none knew about him and managed to escape (the Nazis didn't know about him).

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[–] moviefan61 17 years ago

The other (4th)Jewish kid was probably Jean's friend LaFarge who Jean mentions in the film and I think is shown visiting him in the infirmary. He was not hauled off by the Nazis with the other 3 boys at the end of the movie. As for Julien wanting Jean to get nabbed, definitely no, I realized after a few viewings. It goes back to the reference in the movie of the "lack of discipline." Julien is only a child and cannot resist the impulse to see his friend's reaction and inadvertently points him out. There is a similar scene when the gym teacher leaves the infirmiry through the attic dormer, and Julien runs out and looks up to see him go over the rooftop. Joseph shows up a split second later w/a Nazi in tow, almost catching Julien looking up.

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[–] malaikab 11 years ago

You are right that it was not Julien's fault. That scene is symbolic where Julien looks back at Jean in the classroom while the Nazi official is there. In real life, Louis Malle did not betray his beloved Jewish school friend. There are books that shed light on the real life facts behind Au Revoir Les Enfants movie. For example, French Children of the Holocaust: A Memorial by Serge Klarsfield who is a Nazi Hunter. The real person behind the Pere Jean who was the arrested head master in the Au Revoir Les Enfant movie is Pere Jacques de Jesus and the official name of the school is Petit Collège Sainte-Thérèse de l’Enfant-Jésus.

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[–] smartever123 17 years ago

True, Au Revoir, les Enfants is an autobiographical film for Louis Malle, but I'm sure he did not depict everything exactly as it happened in real life in the film.
Although it is possible that the Gestapo were able to capture Jean just because of Julien's one look - it is not very likely. Like it has been pointed out several times, it's not logical that the Germans would base their arrest on one child's glance at his friend; in fact, they probably already knew who it really was, or at least would've figured out eventually.
So I think this moment was perhaps added into the film for dramatic effect, as hopefully the real event took a lot longer and was done with more careful examination of the boys, before just picking any one of them and calling them a Jew.
Perhaps in real life Malle had not actually given his friend away with a well-meant glance. But still, he probably feels responsible for his friend's death because he didn't try to do anyhing to help him. He is probably angry that he didn't know how cruel Jean's punishments would be at the time, and he probably still is angry that the Germans took away his nice intelligent friend just because he was born a Jew. Malle was able to experience first-hand anti-Semitism at it's worst.
Writing that scene into the film was probably his way to show that he understands what he has done wrong and is able to accept the blame for the death of his friend.

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[–] Bsacandaga 17 years ago

Thank you!

Au Revoir Les Enfants was an Autobiography. Julien=Louis Malle, If you listen to the speech at the end of the film (it is in English, but with a thick French accent)

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[–] bluerisk 17 years ago

It was the cruelty of the director that caused his own fall and the dead of the Jewish students.

The cook was a just poor boy, but the only one who recieved all punishment, and was thrown out in the cold, while the rich kids were allowed to remain at school.

I thought mercy is a fundamental part of the Christian belief...

Anyway, the priest got a return for his cruelty.

Ich bin kein ausgeklügelt Buch, ich bin ein Mensch mit seinem Widerspruch.
Conrad Ferdinand Meyer

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[–] telltime 17 years ago

The title, roughly translated, is goodbye youth (or innocent youth). The realization that his unguarded glance caused his friend to be found was the "narrators" memory of the moment his youth disappeared. He even follows it up with the protection (direct face lie) to the Nazi in the infirmary ward. By then, it's the hypocrisy of the Church that is now being shown (nun giving the boy away).

The same hypocrisy is used to subtly attack the Church in a couple of scenes... The Church is on one hand good, attempting to hide the innocent Jews from a horrible fate, but when the Jewish boy is moved emotionally during a Mass that he wants to take communion, the Priest can't administer the sacrament to someone not Baptized. Also, when Joseph is caught stealing, he is thrown out. Joseph states that he has no where to go, and stated earlier his disability. The Priest admits that the other lady cook was also probably stealing, identified boys in the school who were trading goods in the black-market, but most severely punished perhaps the most helpless offender, reflecting a lack of compassion. That person, Joseph, later came back to haunt that decision. I'm sure that the Priest (who, like the Nun, represented the Church was) well meaning, but I think the author did an excellent job here of subtly showing results from being too judgmental.

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[–] funefellow 17 years ago

I don't think it's Julien's fault. Julien did point the gestapo towards Jean, but it seems as if they would have found him anyway given that the other two Jewish boys that the school was hiding were also captured.

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[–] prenzie-1 17 years ago

I think that Julien looked back toward the direction of his friend out of concern for him or relief the Nazi was leaving. He did it without thinking more. it seems to me innocent,but something a caring person might have felt bad about afterwards.

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[–] marshponds 17 years ago

It seems like if Nazis were looking for a Jew on the campus, they would have come across Bonnet sooner or later because he looks extremely jewish. I don't think its Julien's fault, the whole scene seems a little articifical, i just can't help but doubt that the nazis wouldn't see Jean's big head of black curly hair. He's like a foot taller than all the other students too.

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[–] jeveuxlesoleil 17 years ago

----------------
Like, none?
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Belated response; wrong. It's cleaner.

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[–] pascarot 17 years ago

It's also Julien's fault because that's partly because of him that the cook got fired.

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[–] isabel-neves-1 17 years ago

Actually, it's only semi-autobiographical. Malle has stated on more than one occasion that yes, the main ideas of the movie are the truth and he did have a Jewish friend who was taken away but Julien giving Jean away by looking round to him is purely fictional. This did not happen with Louis Malle.

Anyway, I'm sure it was meant only to be a childish mistake. Julien looks round to Bonnet because he is afraid for him or maybe because he wants to give a "yes, you've gotten away with it!" look. If Julien had intended Bonnet any malice he could have told all the schoolkids, the other staff, anyone.

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[–] yoshi_1554 17 years ago

Yes, I agree that Juliens look towards Jean wasn't intended to be malicious.. but what I'm confused about, is the nazi's interpretation of the look. Oh well.. I'm sure theres some story behind it all, or symbolism and all that.

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[–] frank56 17 years ago

Bonnet's being revealed was a number of people's fault, and maybe the title hints at Julien's loss of innocence through his part in Bonnet's fate.

For example, when the priest was giving Communion, he passed Bonnet rather than let him fit in...perhaps this act contributed to Julien's reaction.

Or perhaps Malle's script suggests that we are all in some way responsible for the loss of innocence...whatever the true meaning, this has been one of my favorite films for many, many years.

Malle was a brilliant talent, and I truly miss his filmmaking.

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[–] Keelton 17 years ago

As for whether Jean Bonnet's arrest was Julien's fault, I saw the scene of Müller's catching Julien's glance as simply heightening the cruelty of what happened. Julien, for the rest of his life, might have to think that he had given his friend away. But I would have agreed with what Jean said to his friend at their lockers. The Nazis would have found him anyway. They would have pulled down the pants of the boys to see who was circumcised (as one soldier did to Julien in the infirmary). They also could have checked the student's papers (as they would doing in the roll call in the courtyard) to see whose were genuine as shown by the list of French citizens.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] malaikab 11 years ago

I also think that scene where Muller catching Julien's glance was used to heightened the cruelty of what happened. To find out more about the real life persons and events behind the Au Revoir Les Enfants Movie, there is a good book titled French Children of the Holocaust:A Memorial written by Nazi Hunter named Serge Klarsfield. The real person behind the Pere Jean character who is the school headmaster in Au Revoir Les Enfants movie is Pere Jacques de Jesus aka Lucien Bunel and the name of the school where director Malle attended is called Petit Collège Sainte-Thérèse de l'Enfant-Jésus à Avon, France.

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[–] stevekaczynski 8 years ago

The innocence of children can have less than innocent consequences in some settings. In a real case in Nazi Germany, a schoolteacher was ranting about the iniquity of Jews and one of his pupils said, "My daddy does not think Jews are like that." The father was arrested and sent to a concentration camp.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

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