Most hated show ever?
Guesses? Any show hated more than this? I can't think of one.
shareNot by me. Love this show.
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MovieChat Forums > Thirtysomething (1987) Discussion > Most hated show ever?
One of my top three favourite dhow of all time
sharei love this show...my most hated show might be full house (and now they are bringing it back...lol) that show was way too cutesy for my taste...gag...
shareI had forgotten how much i hatted this show until i happened upon the opening on youtube the other day. can't think of another i hate as much.
shareI remember my parents loving this show when it was on the air. Now I'm watching it on Hulu and I love it too!
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A qualified YES, mainly because I could never bear to watch the thing, with the characters' incessant whining and depression over nothing...so I'm sure I missed a few semi-stellar moments.
As an alternative, I recommend Hugh Laurie's series "Fortysomething", with a VERY young Benedict Cumberbatch as his sex-crazed son. Now there was a guy who had something to complain about (his wife wants out and he's losing his mind...very hilariously)!
Don't get me wrong...
It might be unbelievable,
But let's not say so long
Thank you!!!!
shareDe nada! I realized that, aside from all the whining on that show, it also represented values that I detested: materialism, worship of the Yuppie ideal and very weird, possessive views of marriage, monogamy and very NON-Hippie views of playing around. I was still in the Hippie mindset of the late 60's and 70's and this show just offended me on so many levels. There were no sympathetic characters, as far as I was concerned.
Also, remember Timothy Busfield's role in "Field of Dreams", in which he basically plays the same, money-grubbing, conforming character as Amy Madigan's brother, who wants them to get rid of the baseball field? Ugh.
Don't get me wrong...
It might be unbelievable,
But let's not say so long
Yes, I can see why you hated the show, and many of your reasons are similar to mine. In general what I gather from most people is a sense of the show's "pretentiousness." On every level, character, plot, etc. . . it tries so hard to be more than it is, and it's issues are banal, trivial, almost juvenile. Basically, everything I hate about that (my) generation.
shareOh, right! The endless pretentiousness. It was so unnecessary. You put it very well:
On every level, character, plot, etc. . . it tries so hard to be more than it is, and it's issues are banal, trivial, almost juvenile.Yes!
I recall these intense debates about really shallow stuff, like the wives fighting over child-raising techniques and such. And the husbands moaning about housework or their stupid jobs.
So, I gather you're of a different generation than my Boomer one. is that Gen X or Y...I lose track of what they're called. The "Me" generation? That was definitely the cast of Thirtysomething!
Don't get me wrong...
It might be unbelievable,
But let's not say so long share
I was 33 when "Thirty-something" premiered, so I could easily recognize the values and narcissism these characters embodied, because so many of that (my) generation were just like them. Ugh. Vacous, vapid, and self-absorbed.
I feel the same way about films like, "The Big Chill," and, "Grand Canyon," -- I think made by the same producer. Hateful people.
When I think of how REAL my parents and in particular my grandparents generations were, watching these puerile yuppies, in life or on TV, or film, turns my stomach.
Well, you're only a bit younger than me (didn't Thirtysomething debut in the late 80's?). But even if you're technically a Boomer, I think the tail end of that generation got contaminated, maybe more than Boomers who sold out did, by the shallow values and materialism of the 80's and 90's. Remember how great the economy was then?! It's like a fantasy after the last 16 years.
As for "The Big Chill", I don't think that Lawrence Kasdan's (who also wrote "Grand Canyon) intent was to idolize vapid, narcissistic, materialist people, but to criticise Boomers who had sold out, as so many did! It kind of backfired on him because he couldn't seem to decide what the film's message really was: to point out their flaws as "responsible" adults or to have them rediscover their old hippie ways via a weekend of smoking pot, having random sex and listening to 1960's classic music! :P...just like in college. Fun stuff but hardly a cure for apathy and shallowness, unless you stick with it, which they did not, disappointingly.
Though most Boomers could identify with that scene and wish that they could have, not just a weekend like that, but to turn back to that lifestyle permanently (I know plenty of people who have!), the film itself doesn't show most of the characters doing that but rather, blowing off some steam, purging some guilt, playing some football and bedroom tag, only to return (not that grudgingly) to their responsible, boring, unfulfilling day jobs and roles as middle-class drones and pillars of the community.
I was so hopeful as the weekend began, but felt a sense of letdown and outrage at them for throwing away their ideals a SECOND time, just so they can keep raking in the dough or keep their nice houses. And the whole "I'll let my husband give you a baby" stunt was just ridiculous! That absurd plot device didn't even work in the plot of "Hair".
Have you ever seen Ang Lee's "The Ice Storm"? Now that is a sobering, realistic look at the bleakness of early 1970's materialism, ignorance of the Hippie ideals and the real consequences of playing with Free Love as if it's a game of Twister. It's a brilliant, shattering film, like watching a car crash in slow motion.
Don't get me wrong...
It might be unbelievable,
But let's not say so long
Quite right about, "The Ice Storm." Spot on.
And, while I may agree with just about all you wrote re; the Big Chill, I do disagree with you that the film is a criticism of the sellout generation of Boomers. To me, it is an apology for them, a "slice of real life," as it were, when there was nothing "real" about them. And yes, most Boomers, (who made the film a hit, and still praise it) identified with these shadows of people, reflecting their own emptiness, and lack of true sophistication and discernment. They still think they are the coolest, most informed, most intelligent, most accomplished, most altruistic generation the world has known. Ugh.
Glad you've seen "The Ice Storm"! So many people I know, even film lovers, have not, strangely. I remember well that sense of bleak aftermath in suburbia, especially in the supposedly liberal area of New England. Granted, my parents didn't host or go to key parties, but I knew people who did. It was pathetic. And my younger siblings were a lot like the confused offspring of the two main couples--experimenting with harder drugs, no ideals about politics or sex, drifting aimlessly toward careers and meaningless domesticity.
I actually DO agree with your assessment of The Big Chill...now! :D But when I saw it for the first few times, I suppose it was through the rose-colored glasses of my memories of The Sexual Revolution and general counterculture. I thought that they would resurrect it, which seemed like a fine idea to me, but as you said, they just ended up apologizing for what they now called "real" life and values. It rang false, as if they were vigorously trying to hypnotize themselves into believing the lie they had concocted.
What got me was how unhappy most of them were in their new roles! It makes you wonder if they really ever were as close and radical as they kept reminiscing...somehow, I doubt it. Either that or their hippie lifestyle was all hypocrisy, like a fad. I knew several would-be "hippies" who segued all-too-easily into boring, shallow, middle-class lives.
About your statement:
They still think they are the coolest, most informed, most intelligent, most accomplished, most altruistic generation the world has known. Ugh.
Can you clarify a bit? Are you saying that you DON'T see the Boomers that way (because I still do, overall!), or do you just mean the ones in the Big Chill and those like them? If you mean the latter, then I agree. But I feel very proud when my son tells me that his current activism was inspired by my example. I see the same thing in many "children" of the Boomer generation. Contrary to the characters in The Big Chill, my college friends really were altruistic, intelligent (or at least well-educated) and certainly more informed than most college kids today...which admittedly isn't entirely their fault, what with all the garbage out there that passes for education and news!
Don't get me wrong...
It might be unbelievable,
But let's not say so long share
Yes, regarding my statement. . .
Being a music historian, and classical pianist and lecturer, I have done lots of research into popular music (aside from the main thrust of my study, classical) particularly American popular music. What goes along with this necessarily is a study of society of the time and the nature of the "audience."
It seems to me that EVERY generation thinks of itself as the "coolest," and what has come immediately before is worthy of mockery and derision. This is no where truer than the Boomer generation who en masse began a kind of societal amnesia regarding popular music of the past. Boomers tend to be highly narcissistic and this colors their opinion of themselves. They are "it". What they like is "cool" because they like it and it is rejected by their corrupted and hopelessly out of date generation of their parents, whom they largely view with comical disdain.
The reality is if one were to examine education from the late 19th century and compare it to say, 1960 or 65, there is no comparison. A grade schooler from 1890 would be reading at a far more advanced level and have more in depth knowledge of virtually every subject,with the possible exception of science. A cursory glance at exams from the period would bear this out. True, there were fewer people with such education, as compared to the Boomers where you just HAD to go to college. But the level and quality of education eroded over time.
The problem has only gotten worse. I teach at a University here in nyc. In a classroom of 65 students only three could identify France on a map of Europe. None had seen a Marx Brothers film. No one could identify the names Al Jolson or Douglas Fairbanks. There is no connection to or appreciation of what came before. When asked, the typical response is, "Oh, that was before my time!" as if nothing of value happened before 1990. This would have been unthinkable 40 years ago. As far as writing skills. ..forget it.
Anyway, I hope that clears things up a bit!
I don't think I'd list every generation as one that thinks itself "cool", though they may well think that their tastes an values are "better". For example, my parents' generation who came of age in the 1940's, seemed to have no concept of "coolness", but rather, what was appropriate. My dad used to rank on my generation and our use of the world "cool"! Then again, they do have that "Greatest Generation" thing going...
As for popular music and trends: I must be the oddball! I was coached by my father in classical music, Swing and some Jazz (he claimed that it ended with Stan Kenton, which I found amusing...and humored him on that, one of the few areas where I did!). Both my sister and I developed a love of early Jazz, especially that of people like Duke Ellington, Cab Calloway, Benny Goodman and Hoagie Carmichael, for example. We used to try doing the Jitterbug (and failed!) to a huge collection of '78's that someone had left behind in a cottage we bought--until my lousy younger siblings used them all as Frisbees!
But my mother would qualify as one of those who rejects modern music, but also that of her youth, as if it's an insult to be reminded of anything she listened to in the 30's or 40's! Go figure.
I still love that music, but have remained open, unlike Kevin Kline's ("There's no music after 1969") character in The Big Chill. My friends were more up on the whole Punk scene and esp. New Wave and Ska. I still remember the first time I saw Devo on SNL...they weirded me out! But I got used to them. Thus, I spent the 80's rampaging around my university and the environs, dancing to everything from local Reggae bands, to concerts by The English Beat, The Go-Go's, and The B-52's. There was also a great Swing band called "The Widespread Depression Orchestra", who sadly moved to NYC in the late 80's.
Now, thanks to my kid, I love bands like Green Day, Blink-182, Weezer and even ones with names I only investigated because I knew HE would probably like them (Diarrhea Planet)! Elliot Smith is a fave, too.
We readily exchange musical ideas, as he and his dad do (though they're more into stadium rock like Pink Floyd and groups like The Beach Boys). To his credit, as a musician and composer, he finds most of the new bands or "singers" you see on the talk show circuit just as revolting and untalented as I do (Think Ed Sheeran) . The Internet really ruined discrimination in many ways, not just music.
Now that I've bragged about my open-mindedness, I have to admit that I detest bands like Rage Against the Machine, Nirvana and especially Hole. Ugh. I simply don't get the appeal. But where is it written that everyone has to like everything? In that sense, I suppose you're right about me, but compared to the Boomers you describe, I like to think I'm much more open.
I thoroughly agree with your estimation of 19th Century as compared to modern education. Even as far back as the late 1980's, I could see a huge difference in college students' level of English, writing and knowledge of history, for example, compared to what was expected when I graduated high school. It has only got worse! They seem to think that if they watch something on YouTube and pass a standardized test (for which they were coached), then they're "educated"!
Don't get me wrong...
It might be unbelievable,
But let's not say so long
I don't think I'd list every generation as one that thinks itself "cool", though they may well think that their tastes an values are "better". For example, my parents' generation who came of age in the 1940's, seemed to have no concept of "coolness", but rather, what was appropriate. My dad used to rank on my generation and our use of the world "cool"! Then again, they do have that "Greatest Generation" thing going...
As for popular music and trends: I must be the oddball! I was coached by my father in classical music, Swing and some Jazz (he claimed that it ended with Stan Kenton, which I found amusing...and humored him on that, one of the few areas where I did!). Both my sister and I developed a love of early Jazz, especially that of people like Duke Ellington, Cab Calloway, Benny Goodman and Hoagie Carmichael, for example. We used to try doing the Jitterbug (and failed!) to a huge collection of '78's that someone had left behind in a cottage we bought--until my lousy younger siblings used them all as Frisbees!
But my mother would qualify as one of those who rejects modern music, but also that of her youth, as if it's an insult to be reminded of anything she listened to in the 30's or 40's! Go figure.
I still love that music, but have remained open, unlike Kevin Kline's ("There's no music after 1969") character in The Big Chill. My friends were more up on the whole Punk scene and esp. New Wave and Ska. I still remember the first time I saw Devo on SNL...they weirded me out! But I got used to them. Thus, I spent the 80's rampaging around my university and the environs, dancing to everything from local Reggae bands, to concerts by The English Beat, The Go-Go's, and The B-52's. There was also a great Swing band called "The Widespread Depression Orchestra", who sadly moved to NYC in the late 80's.
Now, thanks to my kid, I love bands like Green Day, Blink-182, Weezer and even ones with names I only investigated because I knew HE would probably like them (Diarrhea Planet)! Elliot Smith is a fave, too.
We readily exchange musical ideas, as he and his dad do (though they're more into stadium rock like Pink Floyd and groups like The Beach Boys). To his credit, as a musician and composer, he finds most of the new bands or "singers" you see on the talk show circuit just as revolting and untalented as I do (Think Ed Sheeran) . The Internet really ruined discrimination in many ways, not just music.
Now that I've bragged about my open-mindedness, I have to admit that I detest bands like Rage Against the Machine, Nirvana and especially Hole. Ugh. I simply don't get the appeal. But where is it written that everyone has to like everything? In that sense, I suppose you're right about me, but compared to the Boomers you describe, I like to think I'm much more open.
I thoroughly agree with your estimation of 19th Century as compared to modern education. Even as far back as the late 1980's, I could see a huge difference in college students' level of English, writing and knowledge of history, for example, compared to what was expected when I graduated high school. It has only got worse! They seem to think that if they watch something on YouTube and pass a standardized test (for which they were coached), then they're "educated"!
Don't get me wrong...
It might be unbelievable,
But let's not say so long
Yes, not every generation had the word, "cool," in their vocabulary. That's rather obvious. But one can find quotes going back many years that refer to the automatic superiority of the "present" generation. A contemporary of Mozart wrote that, "The definition of Baroque music as opposed to Classical, is that Classcial (meaning modern music, in the style of Mozart) is loved by the present generation and Baroque is that of your grandmother's. (Bach, Handel)"
I'm glad you mentioned Kline, posit, "There's no music after 1969," just about sums up the pretentious, self-absorbed, narcissism, of this most vapid and, it turns out, entitled, generation. Perfect!
Interesting remark about the perceived superiority of Classical to Baroque! I actually prefer it, for many reasons, but it's funny to think of kids arguing with their parents over Bach versus Mozart!
Hayden was surprisingly open-minded. Despite the huge age difference between himself and Mozart, and the latter's enormous ego, it was he (not Salieri!) who told Herr Mozart that "Your son is the greatest composer known to me." Pretty great guy.
As to the narcissism and self-absorbed character of Kline, I think it wasn't all the Boomers or even all his friends, but the guy himself. He sold out but felt bad or embarrassed, as I see it, and so hung onto his generation's rebellious music so as to still seem cool or hip. Actually, I think that's the reason people cling to culturally identifiable things like music or dress; they see themselves aging, losing flexibility and influence and so they become rigid in their tastes out of fear, not so much a sense of entitlement. I remember my parents' reaction to the Beatles--they were "apes", "cavemen" and so on! Haw!...The folks were so obviously threatened. But, showing my age, I could agree with them if they were referring to Courtney Love! ;-P
I followed all the rules...and you followed none of them. And they all loved you more.
Small and annoying point which I must apologize, in advance, for, but it is "Haydn," not, "Hayden." Unless you're talking about Sterling or Richard!
You make some excellent points. Thank you.
The difference between the boomers, the X'ers, whoever follows them (I've lost track of how to identify them) and older generations is that they not only embraced new music styles, but in so doing rejected that of the past completely so that music and culture has become lost. They are generations with cultural amnesia. While previous generations (going back forever) always embraced a new style they still enjoyed and (for the most part) respected what came before. I can say this having been a music teacher for almost 35 years,and a student before that. Every generation likes to think of their "stuff" as the best, but recent generations ONLY KNOW their own "stuff." A dangerous situation.
I once brought up the name "Harpo Marx," to a class of college students. This was about 10 years ago. I wanted to use him as an example of a "stock" character, not unlike that of the commedia dell'arte and with whom their is a direct connection. Well, to my utter dismay and complete shock, not ONE student knew the name, or had even ever SEEN a Marx Brothers movie! Holy crap. How terribly sad. And things have only gotten worse.
Rant over. Thanks!
I can't believe I wrote "Hayden"! Well, yes I can. (Don't forget Tom Hayden!) I've noticed that using a computer and especially the 'net wreaks havoc with my spelling. This isn't news, of course, but it's still no excuse!
I wish I could speak to the various generations' taste, but I'm rather a loner and must go by the few people with whom I discuss these things, those on the Internet or if you can believe what people say in movies and TV. I think you have a point about the pre-Boomers, the so-called "Greatest Generation". For them, looking back on what I saw as a kid, they seemed mainly to regard "their" music as a social accompaniment to whatever they were doing, such as going to proms, nightclubs or entertaining at home. My parents, for example, bought the first Beatles record I ever owned! They'd got it for a party and after the "thrill" wore off, handed it down to us. My dad loved music, actually, but Mom didn't know the difference between Artie Shaw and Hoagey Carmichael.
Most of the Boomers I know still like the old stuff while embracing (carefully!) much of the new stuff that comes along. I remember when teaching (these would have been the Gen X kids), that many had "discovered" groups like the Stones, Doors and so on, and were actually shocked that I'd heard of them! :P But my son, age 25, is a singer/songwriter, a sort of cross between Rivers Cuomo and Elliot Smith. Still, he listens to Neil Young and Pink Floyd and lots of other "hard rock" from my day. Sadly, he loves Paul McCartney, so we fight endlessly, since I'm a Lennon fan. He just saw Paul in Boston--a 3 hr. concert that would have been torture for me, except for a handful of songs. I don't like to rule anything out off-hand, but if I've given something or someone a chance (whether it's music, literature, film, TV) and they don't do it for me, that's it.
I'm not surprised that none of your students knew about the Marx Bros. Yes, it's sad! They are among the greats. It reminds me of the cultural references constantly thrown out by Bob Odenkirk in "Better Call Saul", that almost nobody ever gets! And these are older people who should know.
I followed all the rules...and you followed none of them. And they all loved you more.
My 8-year-old self, in 1990, would have picked 'Thirtysomething'.
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